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Hinkes on last of the 14 8000m

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http://www.everestnews.com/stories2005/alanhinkes04262005.htm

Think it'll be big news (Ellen MacArthur treatment) if he succeeds?

 Mr Pink 2 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Humphrey Jungle:
No.
Tobs at work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Humphrey Jungle: nothing more than extreme trainspotting.
In reply to Tobs at work:

Oh no - I've inadvertantly started a Hinkesbashing thread!

 Andy Hardy 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work: So true, I bet Hinkes cant get close to B8, he's not fit to wipe your boots
Tobs at work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to 999thAndy: when it comes to style, no he's not. doubt he could even get a job as a shoeshine in the city.
 Andy Hardy 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work:
> (In reply to 999thAndy) when it comes to style, no he's not.

Have you often climbed with him?

Tobs at work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to 999thAndy: no, i prefer to stay off the tourist tracks.
 DougG 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work:

Hinkes did a new route on his ascent of Xixabangma, for starters.

Also did first ascent on Menlungtse IIRC.

Neither of them exactly 'tourist tracks'.
 Dominion 28 Apr 2005
In reply to DougG:

> Neither of them exactly 'tourist tracks'.

Neither is K2
simmo 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work: good one, your favorite route list is one long tourist track
broughton power 28 Apr 2005
In reply to 999thAndy: Will he have used supplemental oxygen good effort what ever
 Andy Hardy 28 Apr 2005
In reply to broughton power: No idea, I would guess so
 Mr Pink 2 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2:
Back to the original question. What Ellen MacArthur did was remarkable. What AH is doing is not, and has been done many times before.

Ellen MacArthur has an interesting and likeable persona. Whenever AH appears on the TV, or radio he inevitably comes across as a toss pot. This is why his 'Challenge 14', or whatever it's called won't receive very much media attention. I've got nothing against Hinkes personally btw, and wish him good luck.

George.
 Andy Hardy 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work:

Just read your profile... favourite crag... Stanage....

Did you mean an "off the tourist track" Stanage, or the one near Sheffield?
 Reds 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2: How many people have sailed round the world single handed? How many have climbed all 14 8000? How many people have died doing each? Ellen MacArthur deseerved her plaudits as will Alan Hinkes. What the media and public find interesting doesn't alter the fact he is doing something very dangerous and beyond the ability of most mountaineers.



Daisy 28 Apr 2005
In reply to simmo: meeeoW. It doesn't seem to matter what you do there will always be someone out there to knock you!
 Tom Briggs 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Reds:

It's back to the old chestnut of cynicism in the British armchair climbing community. It's an incredible achievement, no question.
 Mr Pink 2 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Reds:
Erm, I believe that 9 people have climbed all 14 8000m peaks. As far as I am aware only 1 person has sailed solo around the world faster than anybody else.

"What the media and public find interesting doesn't alter the fact he is doing something very dangerous and beyond the ability of most mountaineers."

I don't dispute that, but that's not what I said is it?
Tobs at work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to 999thAndy: To be fair, my issue isn't with him per se. It is with the idea that climbing all the summits above an arbitrary altitude is anything more than glorified stamp collecting. It doesn't really matter how dangerous or difficult it is. Most of us grow out of it during puberty.

Have respect for his climbing abilities - am sure they are pretty good, just don't have any time for his goals.

Still, hope he comes back safely and manages to summit.
In reply to Mr Pink 2:

How would you rate the risks/effort/chapatis involved in each? I'd say AH's endeavour far outweighs EH.



James Jackson 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:

It's amazing, isn't it?
 Dominion 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2:

> Erm, I believe that 9 people have climbed all 14 8000m peaks. As far as I am aware only 1 person has sailed solo around the world faster than anybody else.

Duh... The person who held the record before Ellen had also sailed round the world solo faster than anyone else at the time, and so had the previous record holder, and the one before that, going right back to Chay Blythe...

It's been done lots of times before....

(NB This doesn't detract from Ellen MacArthur, just from your argument)
 DougG 28 Apr 2005
In reply to James Jackson:

Yep. Depressing too.
 Route Adjuster 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2:
> (In reply to Mr Pink 2)
> Back to the original question. What Ellen MacArthur did was remarkable. What AH is doing is not, and has been done many times before.
>

Many Many Many people have sailed around the world single handedly - just not as fast as she did - or with as much electronic equipment So it is hardly remarkable is it by your definition.

What Alan Hinkes is doing has been done before yes, he is not claiming to be the fastest at doing this. However I would still say that this is a feat of endurance, perseverance, skill (and luck) that few people have the determination and effort to complete - therefore making it in my book a remarkable achievement.

 Mr Pink 2 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Humphrey Jungle:
I have no idea I'm afraid. I'm neither a high altitude mountaineer, nor an ocean yachtsman. Do you think that AH's endeavor will receive the same amount of media attention as EM's? I don't think so. This is neither bashing Hinkes or his achievments, or being cynical.
 Dominion 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Route Adjuster:

I think Hinkes may also be on schedule to summit all 14 peaks in fewer attempts/expeditions than anyone previously, possibly... (But I'm not sure)
 Andy Hardy 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work: You've got to have a hobby. At least it keeps him off street corners where he could get into trouble.
Tobs at work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to DougG: not really, there's plenty of unsung heroes out there doing harder and gnarlier routes that don't have the same media profile. they don't get the same criticism levelled at them.
 DougG 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work:

Why do you feel the need to knock any of them? Hinkes included?
 Mr Pink 2 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Dominion:
Aah pedantry, the RT disease.

OK then: . "As far as I am aware only 1 person has sailed solo around the world faster than anybody else AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME!!!"

Do you think it would have raised as much interest if she had been a man btw?
Tobs at work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to DougG: hinkes clearly put himself in the public eye and presents a profile of himself as doing do hard,cutting edge shit. i disagree with him so i cry foul....
 DougG 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work:

> (In reply to DougG) public eye and presents a profile of himself as doing do hard,cutting edge shit. i disagree with him so i cry foul....

Shit, I hope he doesn't read that, he might never get over the disappointment.
 Ridge 28 Apr 2005
In reply to DougG:
> (In reply to Tobs at work)
>
> Why do you feel the need to knock any of them? Hinkes included?

Jealousy?
 Simon Caldwell 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work:
> hinkes clearly put himself in the public eye

so would you think better of him if he'd inherited pot loads of cash from his mater and pater and didn't have to rely on sponsorship to achieve his ambitions?
Tobs at work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
> (In reply to Tobs at work)
> [...]
>
> so would you think better of him if he'd inherited pot loads of cash from his mater and pater and didn't have to rely on sponsorship to achieve his ambitions?

i think it would be better if sponsorship was saved for those pushing the edge of what humans can acheive.
 hutchm 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work:
> (In reply to DougG) hinkes clearly put himself in the public eye and presents a profile of himself as doing do hard,cutting edge shit.

You're right - summiting all the 8000s is soooo last year.
Mick's Daughter @ Work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:

I'm definitely rooting for him, first Britain an' all that. Would be nice if some sort of welcome home is organised.
Tobs at work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to hutchm: more last century really.
 hutchm 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work:
> (In reply to Simon Caldwell)
> [...]
>
> i think it would be better if sponsorship was saved for those pushing the edge of what humans can acheive.

Such as three peak racers, perhaps.

Good trolling, by the way.

 Carless 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2:
>
> OK then: . "As far as I am aware only 1 person has sailed solo around the world faster than anybody else AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME!!!"
>

LoL - I'd read that again to yourself if I was you
 Dominion 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2:

You're missing the gist of the argument.

Several other people had previously set records of sailing solo around the world. It's not unique, as you tried to suggest. She's just the latest.

And as the technology gets better the record will fall again, and again.

As for whether there would have been as much interest if she had been a man, the previous record holder, Francis Joyon was. See if you can find out what the French reaction to him was. And we know about Chay Blythe, even though it was in 1971 that he sailed solo around the world the wrong way...
simmo 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Mick's Daughter @ Work: it'll probably be a few stale pork pies down the working mens club, but they'll still complain....

those pies could have gone to staving asylum seekers
Tobs at work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to simmo: nah, i reckon his sponsors will put on a good little soiree...
 Mr Pink 2 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Route Adjuster:

"Many Many Many people have sailed around the world single handedly - just not as fast as she did - or with as much electronic equipment So it is hardly remarkable is it by your definition."

I think that what EM did was remarkable by any definition.

"What Alan Hinkes is doing has been done before yes, he is not claiming to be the fastest at doing this. However I would still say that this is a feat of endurance, perseverance, skill (and luck) that few people have the determination and effort to complete - therefore making it in my book a remarkable achievement."

I concede that it was probably somewhat rash to call what Alan Hinkes has acheived unremarkable. Perhaps just less extraordinary than what EM acieved, and this is what the media will concentrate on.
simmo 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work: so you know already

is this so you can kiss is arse....
 Ridge 28 Apr 2005
In reply to simmo:
> those pies could have gone to staving asylum seekers

Pork Pies to asylum seekers? Depends on their religion...
Mick's Daughter @ Work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to simmo:

More likely they'll be complaining about the price of the pies...tightfisted northerners.....

<Ducks>
 Route Adjuster 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2:

I think anyone who gets to the point of receiving Media attention for their sporting achievements must be doing something that the average person finds remarkable.

What is remarkable for one person may not be for another. If you have no sailing experience but lots of mountaineering experinece then you might consider Ellen's achievements to be grater than Alan Hinkes'. But that i just a personal opinion.

I don't see how these two outstanding and remarkable achievements of human endeavor can be compared like with like, they are both remarkable - leave it at that.

It's the old My Dad is bigger than your Dad argument (which he is by the way), maybe we should egt them both involved in a fight, now that would be remarkable.
 Mr Pink 2 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Dominion:
Don't worry I understand your argument. I just disagree! At any one moment in time only one persom can hold a record for doing something the fastest, throw something the furthest etc. During that period they are therefore unique. Eventually as you say somebody will break that record - so what! It dosn't lessen the achievments of those who went before them, what they did was still unique. I feel we're getting side-tracked though.
 Mr Pink 2 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Route Adjuster:
"I don't see how these two outstanding and remarkable achievements of human endeavor can be compared like with like, they are both remarkable - leave it at that" - That would make this discussion somewhat boring though! So I'll carry on...

Now most weekends caver X goes across to the Dales to go caving, something which Caver X pushes himself quite hard at. Now say one weekend Caver X happens to come across some new passage. Now that would be quite remarkable! But anyway, Caver X has had to really push himself to the limit to get there.

Now compare this to landing on the moon, in both cases they've gone somewhere were nobody has been before, and it's at the limit of there endurance.

Now, which is the most extraordinary? I think I know.
hugedyno 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Humphrey Jungle:
>
>
> Think it'll be big news (Ellen MacArthur treatment) if he succeeds?

No, but it'll probably generate more sales of fleeces and Wayfarer meals. He's prolonged a flagging career for years by dragging out the last few summits. He could have ticked them years ago (but spookily enough, the pace slowed once the threat of Steven Venables had evaporated). I'd be more impressed if I saw him flash 'Trackside' or 'Beachball'.

H.D.
P.S. What's he ever done on Grit?

Tobs at work 28 Apr 2005
In reply to hugedyno: "what's he ever done on grit?"

actually, being a yorkshireman, i suspect he has actually done quite a bit....

i guess all the 8000m are good training for almscliff.
Iain Ridgway 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor: just climbing?

Its the UK, we like failures, if, god forbid, Hinkes died attempting his last peak, he would be a hero, but doing them all well isnt liked.

We like to build them up and knock them down, from politicians to footballers, just plain old envy.

For some reason we have a culture where people prefer to put others down to make themselves feel better, rather than getting out and doing things themselves.
 Route Adjuster 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2:
> (In reply to Route Adjuster)
> Now most weekends caver X goes across to the Dales to go caving, something which Caver X pushes himself quite hard at. Now say one weekend Caver X happens to come across some new passage. Now that would be quite remarkable! But anyway, Caver X has had to really push himself to the limit to get there.
>
> Now compare this to landing on the moon, in both cases they've gone somewhere were nobody has been before, and it's at the limit of there endurance.
>
> Now, which is the most extraordinary? I think I know.

They are both extraordinary in their own right. caver X's achievments are extraordinary to him (and other Cavers) due to the risks involved, the challenges overcome and the time / perseverance it will have taken to find the new passage. The moon landings were extraordinary in their own right, again due to the risks involved, the planning required and the technology needed to support the attempt.

In a few decades time Moon landings might be an everyday occurrence, the lunar space station will be a reality and Caver X's grandchildren will be finding new passages in the moons subterraenean network, making the previous claims of remarkable achievements seem irrelevant. However without either of the above, the latter may not be achieved.

Who was it that said their groundbreaking discoveries were due to "standing on the shoulders of Giants" Einstein or Newton? Ellen and Hinkes are doing just that, making every previous advance equally groundbreaking.

In reply to no one in particular:

AH took a risk everytime he set foot on an 8000m hill. Whether by trade or a new route damn fine human acievement.

EM took a risk etc etc.


Myth - EM rich folks. She hasn't. Research some of the stuff she did at 16 - blew people away in the sailing world.
hugedyno 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work:
> (In reply to hugedyno) "what's he ever done on grit?"
> i guess all the 8000m are good training for almscliff.

LOL! Finally, someone's got it right. The greater ranges are considered merely training for Gritstone!


H.D.
 Jamie B 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Iain Ridgway:

> We like to build them up and knock them down, from politicians to footballers, just plain old envy.

Personaly, I have more envy for someone that's done The Long Reach. Does this make me wierd?

I'm left unmoved by Hinkes acheivement, but I don't grudge him the right to milk it commercialy for all it's worth. The guy's got bills same as the rest of us.
 GrahamD 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Humphrey Jungle:

Does anyone know what happened to Jonathan Pratt ? for a while, I'm sure he was neck and neck with AH on 8000ers and on much more of a shoestring budget.
Iain Ridgway 28 Apr 2005
In reply to Jamie B.: No because you arent knocking him.

We of course will have more respect for the things we understand, I respect, or be more in awe of an ultra distance runner, walker more than a guy climbing E10, but thats because climbing just doesnt really bother me, it doesnt mean Ill knock the guy though.
 Erik B 29 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work: you obviously dont have a clue whats involved in what Hinkes is doing, I would stick to the grit or Harrisons if I was you
Tobs at work 29 Apr 2005
In reply to Erik B: jog on numptie.
 Erik B 29 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work:as i said, stick to Harrisons
Tobs at work 29 Apr 2005
In reply to Erik B: nice comeback.
 Robbie H 29 Apr 2005
In reply to Dominion:

Or even Joshua Slocum ... Chay Blythe did not invent single-handed sailing.
 Erik B 29 Apr 2005
In reply to Tobs at work: saying that, Im in awe of your ascent of cotopaxi, well done
Removed User 29 Apr 2005
In reply to Erik B:
> Im in awe of your ascent of cotopaxi, well done


It's a tourist track Erik.......
Tobs at work 29 Apr 2005
In reply to Erik B: Yeah, I was really proud of that. Could have done with slightly better preparation though - was at some bacardi party till early hours of the previous day and playing football till early afternoon. Still, a quality day out and a certain comedy value in learning to self-arrest in the hut in the minutes before we set off.
random gary 29 Apr 2005
In reply all critics: What AH is doing is absolutly outstanding, to sumit one 8000m peak takes most people to their limits and many once they sumit never wish to return. Saying "Its been done before" is totaly stupid! if someone runs a 9.99 hundred meter do we say its nothing special cause someone ran it faster?
But we all know that when he is pushing out those final few metres to the summit he wont be thinking of the armchair punters who critise him every chance they get!
Fair play to the guy and i wish himm all the best
Stormmagnet 29 Apr 2005
In reply to hutchm:
> (In reply to Tobs at work)
> [...]
>
> You're right - summiting all the 8000s is soooo last year.

Sooo 1986 actually.
 Mr Pink 2 29 Apr 2005
In reply to random gary:
"Saying "Its been done before" is totaly stupid!"

No it's not. Which was more significant in the history of climbing - The first ascent of Hubble or the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th?

I suspect it's also more than just armchair punters who remain under-whelmed by Mr Hinkes's acheivment!

George. (punter)
 HC~F 29 Apr 2005
In reply to Humphrey Jungle: I don't think it'll be big news Ellen MacArthur style, but to be honest I was getting sick of hearing her voice every time I went to B&Q.

I know I couldn't do it, therefore he gets my respect.
Removed User 29 Apr 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2:
> The first ascent of Hubble

Didn't have a clue what you were talking about so I googlred (like you do) it would appear this bloke trained on a replica in his bedroom. What the hell is Hinkes thinking about?? he could have trained for being cutting edge in the hoose or at least waited for the via ferrata to be built.

http://www.scotlandonline.com/outdoors/malcolm_smith/index2.cfm

random gary 03 May 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2:
> (In reply to random gary)
> "Saying "Its been done before" is totaly stupid!"
>
> No it's not. Which was more significant in the history of climbing - The first ascent of Hubble or the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th?


but does it make it any less of a challange for him? many people have climbed Everest but because one can do it, it dosnt mean everyone can do it hence climbing all 14 is a great achievement!
 Simon Caldwell 03 May 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2:
> I suspect it's also more than just armchair punters who remain under-whelmed by Mr Hinkes's acheivment!

In true Rocktalk style, the only people who have any right to make any comment about Hinkes's imminent achievement are those who have also climbed the 8000s.
 GrahamD 03 May 2005
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Since the Hinkes/Berghaus publicity machine is working overtime on this one, I think everyone is entitled to their say. You can't expect to use this sort of stunt to sell Himalayan anoraks to ramblers in the Dales without expecting a great deal of misinformed comment (good and bad).
psd 03 May 2005
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
> (In reply to Mr Pink 2)
> [...]
>
> In true Rocktalk style, the only people who have any right to make any comment about Hinkes's imminent achievement are those who have also climbed the 8000s.

I thought it came down to what grade you climbed at, not how high you did it. On that basis, can someone confirm at least one of them is only a V Diff so I can put my tuppence in?

Removed User 03 May 2005
In reply to GrahamD:
Have we tired completely of commercial companies sponsoring climbers then? If so then I guess the Himalayas will be pretty much left to the rich guys, cos you don't get to even set foot on the hills with no cash.

When and if he completes I think the measure of what it means to people in general is how many non "outdoors" type people will have heard of him afterwards. Personally I think the chances of seeing splash exposure for Hinkes will be minimal; who in the world outside of climbing gives a shit these days? He'll have more chance of pulicity if he marries a C-list girl band member or soap "star".

Hope he does it; even though he's not near the top of muy "people I'd like tio have a pint with" list.
 GrahamD 03 May 2005
In reply to Removed User:

I haven't a problem with commercial sponsorship - my comment was more to do with if you are going to be put yourself in a high profile position because of it, you have to expect comments from everyone - well informed and not so well informed. Sort of goes with the territory.
Removed User 03 May 2005
In reply to GrahamD:
I think that another thing to take into account is that people on these forums are comparing completely different fields. It's like talking "athletics" and comparing the hammer versus the 100m.

Was talking to a guy that leads comfortably E4 and can go higher and he was saying that due to the altitutude and clothing etc. you simply can't compare the grades at 8000m versus sealevel. We were looking at rock whilst in Nepal that he reckoned he'd scoosh at sea level but didn't feel that he'd even attempt it at 17,000 ft.
 Mr Pink 2 03 May 2005
In reply to random gary:
> (In reply to Mr Pink 2)
> [...]
>
>
> but does it make it any less of a challange for him? many people have climbed Everest but because one can do it, it dosnt mean everyone can do it hence climbing all 14 is a great achievement!

No, I'm not saying it isn't a great achievment, or that it isn't a very hard thing to do. That was sort of my point with the Hubble comparison. It's obviously just as hard for the first peson as the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. However the 1st ascent will always be seen as the most significant.

I guess we'll just have to wait another 50 years to see the true significance of Hinkes's achievment in the grand scheme of mountaineering history.

Simon Caldwell: You're joking right??

 Simon Caldwell 03 May 2005
In reply to Mr Pink 2:
> You're joking right??

 tony 03 May 2005
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to Simon Caldwell)
>
> Since the Hinkes/Berghaus publicity machine is working overtime on this one,

Is it? I haven't noticed a thing.

For what it's worth, I think it's a great achievement. Getting someone to else to pay you to do what you really want to do anyway sounds like a fantastic way of getting through life.
 MikeTS 04 May 2005
In reply to Humphrey Jungle:
You'd think Everestnews would know that Kanch's base camp is not at "at around 7000m'
 Tom M Williams 05 May 2005
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
> (In reply to Mr Pink 2)
> [...]
>
> In true Rocktalk style, the only people who have any right to make any comment about Hinkes's imminent achievement are those who have also climbed the 8000s.


Well said

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