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http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=137287
this post has gone from someone asking a sensible question about a drytooling location to a discussion about the damage done by drytooling!!
i don't understand this - or the numerous post that have gone before on the same topic.
i have winter climber for a while now, but my partner only started 2 seasons ago.
after the first season she bought her own tools and to get used to them we drytooled in the lakes one weekend when it was too piss wet to rock climb.
we climbed C route on gimmer on the saturday and tophet wall on great gable on the sunday.
i defy anyone to show me a photo of any of the damage that we will have done to these route!
it's all about placing the tools correctly and not paddling with the crampons.
this post has gone from someone asking a sensible question about a drytooling location to a discussion about the damage done by drytooling!!
i don't understand this - or the numerous post that have gone before on the same topic.
i have winter climber for a while now, but my partner only started 2 seasons ago.
after the first season she bought her own tools and to get used to them we drytooled in the lakes one weekend when it was too piss wet to rock climb.
we climbed C route on gimmer on the saturday and tophet wall on great gable on the sunday.
i defy anyone to show me a photo of any of the damage that we will have done to these route!
it's all about placing the tools correctly and not paddling with the crampons.
In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run:
Someone's going to post a link to that photo of scratches at Newtyle soon...
Someone's going to post a link to that photo of scratches at Newtyle soon...
In reply to tony: but it doesnt damage the rock at all mate we are all imagining it
In reply to satori:
Jeesh, I can screw up the rock with ice on it. I may as well get out the hammer and chisels when dry tooling.
Fex.
Jeesh, I can screw up the rock with ice on it. I may as well get out the hammer and chisels when dry tooling.
Fex.
In reply to Rid Skwerr & Dave Hunter, Rock + Run:
all i would say if you are going to take someone drytooling as part of a pre-winter season practice session, is - show them how to remove angles whilst you are at ground level.
i'd hazard a guess that my grivel 70mm rocket is still firmly wedged half way up tophet as i could not be arsed to ab for it.
all i would say if you are going to take someone drytooling as part of a pre-winter season practice session, is - show them how to remove angles whilst you are at ground level.
i'd hazard a guess that my grivel 70mm rocket is still firmly wedged half way up tophet as i could not be arsed to ab for it.
In reply to satori:
Opinions differ.
Myself I see no harm in it in certain places & my old stomping grounds up on the N E coast, are indeed an ideal venue due to the over abundance of shale cliffs,mixed rock routes which are virtually un climable by any other means.
however, can you imagine the furore created by anyone suggesting dry tooling on Peak grit classics?
A couple of good DVDs to see are "One Winter" & "Ice Up".
In the second some french guys are dry tooling up a tree! One even dismantles his bathroom with axes & crampons!
Opinions differ.
Myself I see no harm in it in certain places & my old stomping grounds up on the N E coast, are indeed an ideal venue due to the over abundance of shale cliffs,mixed rock routes which are virtually un climable by any other means.
however, can you imagine the furore created by anyone suggesting dry tooling on Peak grit classics?
A couple of good DVDs to see are "One Winter" & "Ice Up".
In the second some french guys are dry tooling up a tree! One even dismantles his bathroom with axes & crampons!
In reply to satori:
Heading that way this weekend - thanks for the tip.
> i'd hazard a guess that my grivel 70mm rocket is still firmly wedged half way up tophet as i could not be arsed to ab for it.
Heading that way this weekend - thanks for the tip.
In reply to wizz walker:
but i'm not sure why.
i've not drytooled on grit yet as a lot of it would involve torqueing (sp) in cracks and the head on the dmm fly isn't ideal to be honest.
so when it get too wet to climb this autumn we'll either have to sort out some better tools ofr maybe try drytooling on some of the quaried grit - with the sharper holds.
> (In reply to satori)
>
> however, can you imagine the furore created by anyone suggesting dry tooling on Peak grit classics?
>
> however, can you imagine the furore created by anyone suggesting dry tooling on Peak grit classics?
but i'm not sure why.
i've not drytooled on grit yet as a lot of it would involve torqueing (sp) in cracks and the head on the dmm fly isn't ideal to be honest.
so when it get too wet to climb this autumn we'll either have to sort out some better tools ofr maybe try drytooling on some of the quaried grit - with the sharper holds.
In reply to wizz walker:
I know someone who claims to have seen a poster on here pegging his way up a tree. Years ago.
> In the second some french guys are dry tooling up a tree!
I know someone who claims to have seen a poster on here pegging his way up a tree. Years ago.
In reply to satori:
But grit is quite soft, once you pierce the initial skin. Useful training for bullet hard ice I should think
But grit is quite soft, once you pierce the initial skin. Useful training for bullet hard ice I should think
In reply to satori: would you find it acceptable to chip holds to make it easer to climb?
In reply to satori:
Reiff's quite good for it too.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=23753
Make sure you take a refreshing energy drink with you, though, it can get hot on those rocks.
Reiff's quite good for it too.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=23753
Make sure you take a refreshing energy drink with you, though, it can get hot on those rocks.
In reply to djviper:
i personally wouldn't chip as i don't carry a chisel with me, but each to there own.
the most i have done is given a robust wire brushing around some small holds at caley and cratcliffe - just to allow the hold to stand out a bit better.
> (In reply to satori) would you find it acceptable to chip holds to make it easer to climb?
i personally wouldn't chip as i don't carry a chisel with me, but each to there own.
the most i have done is given a robust wire brushing around some small holds at caley and cratcliffe - just to allow the hold to stand out a bit better.
In reply to satori: you didnt answer the question
In reply to djviper:
i thought i had when i said 'each to their own.'
so yes, as long as it is done well.
i thought i had when i said 'each to their own.'
so yes, as long as it is done well.
In reply to satori: so just to make sure i have it right you think its fine for people to chip holds on a rock face to help climb it????
In reply to djviper:
It's all about getting to the top, isn't it? Does it matter how you get there?
> (In reply to satori) so just to make sure i have it right you think its fine for people to chip holds on a rock face to help climb it????
It's all about getting to the top, isn't it? Does it matter how you get there?
In reply to djviper:
well, either that or some people prefer to aid the pitch.
> (In reply to satori) so just to make sure i have it right you think its fine for people to chip holds on a rock face to help climb it????
well, either that or some people prefer to aid the pitch.
In reply to satori: I'd love to try this dry-tooling out, but my partner says it's dangerous and hurts, and that we should continue to use lubricant.
In reply to satori: these last few posts make me realise theres no point arguing as you all find damaging the rock to get to the top acceptable
In reply to djviper: Apart from being well and truly trolled here
The problem is that if you take the line that everyone should have free access to do what they please in the countryside you end up at one extreme.
Of course the counter is that society imposes limits (eg just because I "feel" like killing someone doesn't mean that the law permits it).
In the case of drytooling I think you would struggle to find an environmetalist who would differentiate between drytooling and say vigorous gardening of a new route or even mass ascents of classic routes - all damage something.
The problem is that if you take the line that everyone should have free access to do what they please in the countryside you end up at one extreme.
Of course the counter is that society imposes limits (eg just because I "feel" like killing someone doesn't mean that the law permits it).
In the case of drytooling I think you would struggle to find an environmetalist who would differentiate between drytooling and say vigorous gardening of a new route or even mass ascents of classic routes - all damage something.
In reply to satori:
And you don't leave any of those nasty, sharp edges.
>
> so yes, as long as it is done well.
> so yes, as long as it is done well.
And you don't leave any of those nasty, sharp edges.
In reply to mtr:
well, mtr, i won't lie to you.
all dry toolers know that there is a very real risk of getting a tool stuck in a crack or crevice.
you may think that you can extricate your tool by vigerously wiggling it to and fro, but unfortunately this can sometimes snap the end of your tool.
be careful out there.
> (In reply to satori) I'd love to try this dry-tooling out, but my partner says it's dangerous and hurts, and that we should continue to use lubricant.
well, mtr, i won't lie to you.
all dry toolers know that there is a very real risk of getting a tool stuck in a crack or crevice.
you may think that you can extricate your tool by vigerously wiggling it to and fro, but unfortunately this can sometimes snap the end of your tool.
be careful out there.
In reply to mtr:
Pmsl! Spat a gobful of tea all over the keyboard.
> (In reply to satori) I'd love to try this dry-tooling out, but my partner says it's dangerous and hurts, and that we should continue to use lubricant.
Pmsl! Spat a gobful of tea all over the keyboard.
In reply to wizz walker: I no longer drink anything while looking at this forum. My keyboard wouldn't stand another drenching.
In reply to satori:
Hello Hun
you and your girl would be welcome over here and we could all drytool togeather on the limestine crags, I am sure a few nicely chipped holds would go down well at the Wild Side!
Sam Orange x
Hello Hun
you and your girl would be welcome over here and we could all drytool togeather on the limestine crags, I am sure a few nicely chipped holds would go down well at the Wild Side!
Sam Orange x
In reply to MJH:
I personally know a few...
Most are more concerned about vegetation than rock (not all rock)
> (In reply to djviper) Apart from being well and truly trolled here
>
>
>
> In the case of drytooling I think you would struggle to find an environmetalist who would differentiate between drytooling and say vigorous gardening of a new route or even mass ascents of classic routes - all damage something.
>
>
>
> In the case of drytooling I think you would struggle to find an environmetalist who would differentiate between drytooling and say vigorous gardening of a new route or even mass ascents of classic routes - all damage something.
I personally know a few...
Most are more concerned about vegetation than rock (not all rock)
In reply to Sam M:
Do you glue on holds as well? I was meaning to ask about that - what cement do you use? - because there're a few blank faces I know of that could really do with a jug or two and obviously, chipping's bad.
> I am sure a few nicely chipped holds would go down well at the Wild Side!
Do you glue on holds as well? I was meaning to ask about that - what cement do you use? - because there're a few blank faces I know of that could really do with a jug or two and obviously, chipping's bad.
In reply to Richard:
Don't use cement - just get some bolt on holds - that way they can be removed and rearranged to change the route when you get bored with it.
Don't use cement - just get some bolt on holds - that way they can be removed and rearranged to change the route when you get bored with it.
In reply to Richard:
I can send you the name of the formula that really sticks well and no one can ever get off.
Sam
I can send you the name of the formula that really sticks well and no one can ever get off.
Sam
In reply to Sam M:
> (In reply to satori)
>
> Hello Hun
>
> you and your girl would be welcome over here and we could all drytool togeather on the limestine crags, I am sure a few nicely chipped holds would go down well at the Wild Side!
>
Oooo aye, I fancy a dry-tooling orgy! Must put it on the 'to-do' list. Actually, we were talking about you the other day - must drop you a line!
>
> Hello Hun
>
> you and your girl would be welcome over here and we could all drytool togeather on the limestine crags, I am sure a few nicely chipped holds would go down well at the Wild Side!
>
In reply to dinkypen:
we are all back on the 23rd and in the North staying at my house in Manchester so come and see us or lets arrange to go climbing
Sam x
we are all back on the 23rd and in the North staying at my house in Manchester so come and see us or lets arrange to go climbing
Sam x
In reply to Rid Skwerr: I've seconded nbterry up a tree just last week; was tremendous fun.
As was the bottle of £1.90 Spanish red I managed to neck in 11.1 seconds shortly after!
As was the bottle of £1.90 Spanish red I managed to neck in 11.1 seconds shortly after!
In reply to Rid Skwerr:
Was in the Dolomites recently, and went to a crag in the forest above Cortina - all the easyish slabs had been liberally coated in cemented-on holds, turning what looked like nice edgy 5s and 6as into something pointless. The place had been equipped with ariel runways and rope bridges as well - I suspect some outdoor centre had been at it. If it had been my local crag, I'd have been very, very pissed off.
> (In reply to Richard)
> [...]
>
> You're a sika puppy.
> [...]
>
> You're a sika puppy.
Was in the Dolomites recently, and went to a crag in the forest above Cortina - all the easyish slabs had been liberally coated in cemented-on holds, turning what looked like nice edgy 5s and 6as into something pointless. The place had been equipped with ariel runways and rope bridges as well - I suspect some outdoor centre had been at it. If it had been my local crag, I'd have been very, very pissed off.
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