UKC

I've got two questions about mountain marathons.

Firstly what footwear do I want? I'm guessing fell running shoes, but would they be suitable for the KIMM? (I'm entering the KIMM and the LDMTA, but doubt I'll get in as I have no experience!) I've currently got either running shoes or hiking boots (don't own any approach shoes) and I don't think either will be appropriate, so if I've got to buy something anyway I might as well make sure it's something suitable!

Secondly - it might seem a strange question, but do you encounter any animals on these things? I'm fine with sheep (unless there's lots of them with big horns), but if I have to run through the middle of a mass of cows I'm quite jittery! I'm guessing that you don't get large amounts of cattle in the the Sottish or Lake District hills though...

In reply to cider nut:

They're planning to reintroduce wolves though.

In reply to Rid Skwerr:
And there are always at least a couple of lynx on the loose after escaping the wildlife parks.

In reply to cider nut:

there were some lovely big black cows on one of the hills that we went up during the Saunders last weekend.

and highland cattle are just so furry!

In reply to CJD:

That includes theit tongues.
And their breath smells of whisky.



So I'm told.

In reply to cider nut:

there have been lots of threads where people mention Inov8 mudroc shoes as good fellrunning shoes. I'd do a search...

In reply to Iain Forrest:

We've got a big cat thing in Aberdeenshire, at least one. Someone reminded me of that as I was setting up a bivvy on the top of Bennachie a couple of summers ago.

In reply to cider nut: Wear red and go charging through the cows and become the first Karrimor International Mountain Matador! I wonder what they'd think if you turned up at the camp with herd of highland cattle in pursuit.

In reply to cider nut:

tigers, lots of tigers

In reply to Rid Skwerr:


Rubbish.

It smells of Highland Toffee. Unless they've been on the piss, like.

In reply to DougG:

The Cowans are a subspecies.

In reply to Rid Skwerr & Iain Forrest:

Oi, no mickey taking, I'm serious!

:-p

In reply to CJD:

Cows... lovely... ? Not seeing it myself!!

I've found info about fell running shoes already, but was wandering if it was those I wanted, rather than what type. If it is, I'll go into a shop and try some out, and hopefully find a useful shop assistant to help...

In reply to Liam M:

Lol That just made me guffaw out loud in the office!

In reply to cider nut:
http://www.bigcats.org/abc/realcats/

In reply to CJD:

p.s. Thanks for the suggestion though!

In reply to cider nut:

purely from observation at the Saunders, most people were wearing Inov8s or Walsh shoes.

In reply to cider nut:

1. Fell running shoes are what you need - find what fits from the many different brands: walshes, mudrocs, adidas etc.

2. Animals: Think they generally try to keep you away from livestock, but on the LAMM we got pretty close to some deer, as well as an adder, (and very close to a couple of dozen ticks...)

In reply to Iain Forrest:

Good link!

In reply to cider nut:

oh, one thing I read recently was that cows aren't as bothered by red things as they are by yellow/orange ones... which explains why I've had them following me before now when I've been wearing my big orange goretex or my small orange paclite...

In reply to CJD:

They don't like dogs. A friend was mobbed by cows outside Braithwaite because they had a dog. Ended up with a broken leg.

In reply to Kev Malone:

Thanks!

Think I can cope with dear. Bit wary of snakes though, I'll sing as I jog (walk) to scare them off. I'm most worried about the LDMTA as it's an individual event, at least in the KIMM I'll have a partner!

I'm really terrible with animals, my accepted animals list (ones that I'd let get near me) currently stands at butterflies, garden birds, ducklings and (British only) spiders!!!

In reply to cider nut:

oh my god, I find butterflies, moths and spiders terrifying. cows are lovely though. as are sheep.

In reply to CJD:

Cows are far to big to be lovely. I'm sure they could clear you into the next field with one 'hoof'. Not quite as scary as swans though...

I can cope with moths too, don't really like them but they don't make me nervous. Same with daddy long legs and flies. Actually, I'm find with insects. It's big animals, and small slimy things like slugs that I hate!!

In reply to cider nut:


fell running shoes or trail running shoes if they have a thin enough sole.

walsh, inov-8, new balance, adidas, salomon, asics and nike plus a couple of others were all seen at the LAMM and the SLMM this year.


if these are road running shoes then the thick cushioning in the sole unit means that they are too high for contouring and rough ground - you will go over on your ankle.

road shoes do not have enough grip to be safe.

>or hiking boots (don't own any approach shoes)

attempting to run for any great distance in either of these can lead to problems in your feet, legs and hips. not always, but sometimes.


- i think you are talking about cows here. lol


run around them then.

In reply to cider nut: have just emailed you - hope you don't mind.

In reply to cider nut:
We also passed a couple of rather loud turkeys on the LAMM

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

we mainly passed frogs and gigantic black slugs on the lamm - it being a 'bit damp' on mull.

In reply to CJD: I agree moths can are just horrendous. I think it stems from when I ws young, and my mum would leave the bedroom window open to let the room cool down of an evening, but of course as soon as the sun dropped they would be attracted to the lights I had on. So all night I'd have moths fluttering around and quite often banging into the windows quite violently in an attempt to reach the street lights outside.

This would just scare the hell out of me as a kid, and moths still do. I almost freaked out a few days ago when one got stuck between my nose and glasses, waving its wings in my eyes but unable to work out how to escape.

In reply to Liam M:

I'd recommend not watching the film The Collector, the adaptation of the John Fowles novel. far too many butterflies for my liking.

In reply to satori:

we didn't pass much on the Saunders - we *were* passed, however, by many many runners...

In reply to CJD:


but surely you were fast enough not to be passed by the big black slugs!!!

ps. forgot to mention earlier in the week how nice it was to see you again.

In reply to cider nut:

Don't do it!!!!!

You will have to hock your climbing gear to pay for all your new MM-specific kit!!

In reply to CJD: I could cope with them on film, or seen in captivity, or to some extent when flying around in the day. Its just later on when they panically search for lights and collide with everything, including you, and their silouhettes flitting around, that it freaks me out.

In reply to satori:

lol, it was nice to see you (and Dinky) again too

In reply to chris tan XLIX:

I ain't hockin' nuffink!

I'm more likely to run in entirely unsuitable kit and end up injuring myself. Again.

In reply to satori:


They're Asics Gel DS Trainer VII, probably too high like you said. Also, they've got a mesh fabric for most of the uppers, so i'd end up with very wet feet!


I think I'd definately end up with problems in my ones!


Sheep can have horns too! Or are they rams? :-S

In reply to cider nut @work:

You're going to end up with very wet feet whatever you wear! Mesh (or at least water-permable) is actually best, as though the water gets in, it can then get out again afterwards. Leather on the other hand soaks it up and won't dry out all weekend.

In reply to cider nut @work:
hate to break it to you but I think that it's de rigeur for these events (having talked to those who've done them before) to end up with soaking feet whatever! hence the very sexy plastic bag-inside-shoe look that many people were sporting at the Saunders...

In reply to CJD:

Ah right. That's okay with me, I just assumed that fell shoes were more waterproof. I can go vaguely near a puddle and my running shoes get wet!

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Fair point. I'm still not sure these would be suitable though. Here's a pic, what do you think (ignore the foreign text): http://www.laufschuhkauf.de/laufschuhtest/testlightwwettk/testlightwwettk.h...

They're lightweight (295g), but not sure if the grips are good enough (they grip better than my trainers tho).

In reply to cider nut @work:

I'll give you an email a bit later when I get chance - the crucial thing is to actually get to a shop where they can give you proper, sensible, informed advice: I'm okay, I've got places like 'The Complete runner' and others locally!

James.

In reply to cider nut @work:
that's a trainer.

the rules don't allow trainers on the mountain marathons - mainly for safety reasons.

get into a shop so you can have a look at the difference between a fell shoe and a trainer.

not even all trail shoes are suitable for mountain marathons.

In reply to satori:

pete bland's site shows some examples of fell shoes:

http://www.peteblandsports.co.uk/trolleyed/32/475/476/index.htm

and trail shoes:

http://www.peteblandsports.co.uk/trolleyed/32/475/6/index.htm

just so you know what you are looking for in a shop.

In reply to James Rowe:

I do plan to go to a shop, but don't know of many locally except 'Go outdoors' (CCC) and don't think they do fell shoes. I've got until August, although want some time to break them in.

In reply to satori:

How do full-on fell shoes mix with orthotics?

In reply to satori:

okay, so my running shoes are definately out, but I thought that would be the case anyway! So you're saying some trail shoes (don't really understand what constitutes a trail shoe yet, but have read the text on your link now) are suitable as well as fell shoes?

In reply to cider nut:

I guess a lot depends on how seriously you will be taking the events. If you intend to become a 'proper' fell-runner which involves hurling yourself down scree slopes and steep grassy inclines and ploughing through bogs, rivers and mud (rather than tip-toeing your way around them!), then I reckon fell-running shoes are a must. Satori and I did the LAMM and the Saunders in the Inov8 flyrocs (fell/trail running shoes - very lightweight) but could really have done with more grip and a more stable foot position when contouring (there seemed to be a lot of 'roll' in the flyrocs which didn't do the ankles any favours and I also have a couple of black toes from the descents!). Consequently, we bought some of the new Inov8 mudclaws at the Saunders which are a much snugger, narrower fit (holding the foot more stable) and have a much more studded sole which means, in theory, I am much less likely to come a cropper if I fling myself down the hillside! As mentioned above, the uppers on fell running shoes are made of mesh which means all that lovely marsh goo, mud and water that you will be wading through gets pumped back out as you carry on running. It really is quite a weird sensation!

However, if your aim is simply to get round the events then I guess whatever footwear you are comfortable in for a prolonged period on the hills would do the trick

In reply to cider nut @work:
If you're getting some new shoes anyway, then you may as well get some that are designed for the job in hand, so something like mudrocks or mudclaws. Trail shoes are OK, but only just.

In reply to Rid Skwerr:

Helen Taylor has orthotics of many and varied forms in her Inov8 Mudrocs (when she can find her special gel heel things, that is...)

In reply to CJD:

Sounds promising. Just after I got the orthotics the less 'traily' shoes looked awfy uncushioned.

In reply to Rid Skwerr:

dinkypen wears orthotics, i don't.

what we have noticed in her inov-8 flyroc trail/fell shoe is that the waist of the orthotic is slightly too wide for the shoe and have quite deeply cut the inside of the shoe.
(we have strengthened this with seamseal which seems to have helped - thanks for the idea dave hunter.)

she has recently bought mudclaws which are a full on fell shoe.

she is going to try running without the orthotic as we reckon her foot won't fit properly with the orthotic and/or the orthotic will trash the shoe as it is nowhere near as robust as the flyroc and the fit is much more narrow - as a fell shoe should be, especially for contouring.

In reply to dinkypen:

Cheers. I've already got plenty of hobbies so don't expect to become a serious fell runner. However I hope to have a good bash at the events (if I get in), depending on how my training goes! I don't see myself doing much flinging though! I'm renowned for walking really slowly down hill as I always expect to slip, but that means I should still probably go for the ones that have better fit and better grip to give myself as much of an advantage as possible.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Will do, the prices look fairly similar anwyay.

In reply to satori:

could she get orthotics specially made for these new shoes?

In reply to CJD:

I could probably get some 'softer' orthotics which won't cut in som much (think the ones I have are carbon fibre or something) but it will cost another £280 or so... although Westfield will pay for most of that

In reply to dinkypen:

oo, i've got 'soft' ones through the NHS... free! and they're quite easy to hack apart... might be worth investigating if you do find that you're having problems.

In reply to cider nut @work:

My thoughts exactly - I have never felt secure or safe enough in the shoes that I have been wearing up until now and fully expect to break something if I pick up the pace too much downhill! But I am hoping the grip of the mudclaws will give me the confidence that I need to start throwing myself down hills with gusto, which is where fell races are either won or lost. Funnily enough, a more fluid, faster pace down hill will also take a lot of pressure off the quads which really take a pounding at slower paces down steep slopes.

In reply to CJD:

Sounds vaguely squirm-making.

Mine are carbon fibre jobs. Certainly wouldn't fancy running without them now.
They didn't cost anything near £300 though.

In reply to dinkypen:

you could, alternatively, take my approach and fall over and slide downhill at gathering pace on your arse/face/anything but feet...

is that considered cheating though?

:-S

In reply to Rid Skwerr:

mine are intended to be semi-disposable, and provide short-term support... the toes etc can be trimmed to fit into different shoes.

as I say, just a thought

In reply to CJD:

Depends what you use to stop.

In reply to dinkypen:

I suppose the next question is where can I go to try them on! I won't be anywhere near the Lakes until the LDMTA event (first weekend in September), so that rules out RockRun, Needlesports and PeteBlandSports.

I'll be in Wales early August so maybe I can find somewhere there. Or find a random running shop in the Midlands that knows a bit about fell running shoes - any suggestions? :-S

In reply to cider nut @work:

ultimate outdoors in betws-y-coed have fell shoes.

In reply to satori:

cool, will make a note!

In reply to cider nut @work:

If you can head further north then Running Bear in Alderley Edge are good. Otherwise have a look on the Inov-8 website for distributors and look for someone locally who sells mudclaws


Ben B at work

In reply to Anonymous:

Just a point when trying on the mudclaws..... I found I had to experiment a fair bit with the different lacing options before I found the best fit on my right foot (probably due to the very low heal on the shoe and having feet which are not exactly the same size!). The Inov8 website gives you the different lacing possibilities which are worth placying with. I found the 'high loop lock lacing system best for me;

http://www.inov-8.com/lacing.html

In reply to dinkypen:

Ta dinky. I may have similar problems because my left foot is longer but my right foot is wider.