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I'm relatively new to climbing but should'nt we all push for climbing or bouldering as one of our 2 new olympic sports as it seems to be something we are very good at in the UK.
Also it would mean there would be decent investment in training and neww facilities.
Also it would mean there would be decent investment in training and neww facilities.
In reply to king louis: we are not as good as the french and other such nations, so we wouldn't win. And also as people told me it is a bit boring to watch, but then again isn't Kaking and archery
In reply to mac_climb:
Surely people like Ben Moon and Andy Cave and the other climbers they are bringing through are as good as anyone on their day.
Surely people like Ben Moon and Andy Cave and the other climbers they are bringing through are as good as anyone on their day.
In reply to king louis:
Dear King
So was Coe at running, but look at our middle distance runners now.
Norrie
> (In reply to mac_climb)
> Surely people like Ben Moon and Andy Cave and the other climbers they are bringing through are as good as anyone on their day.
> Surely people like Ben Moon and Andy Cave and the other climbers they are bringing through are as good as anyone on their day.
Dear King
So was Coe at running, but look at our middle distance runners now.
Norrie
In reply to Norrie Muir: Sure people like me are amazing at climbing, but cant win all the competiotions, who will win the rest or the climbing events at the olympics
In reply to king louis:
>I'm relatively new to climbing
You don't say?
>but should'nt we all push for climbing or bouldering as one of our 2 new olympic sports
No.
>as it seems to be something we are very good at in the UK.
In the UK mags, certainly. In real life, we're fairly crap.
>Also it would mean there would be decent investment in training and neww facilities.
Well, we could certainly use some new crags, I suppose.
jcm
>I'm relatively new to climbing
You don't say?
>but should'nt we all push for climbing or bouldering as one of our 2 new olympic sports
No.
>as it seems to be something we are very good at in the UK.
In the UK mags, certainly. In real life, we're fairly crap.
>Also it would mean there would be decent investment in training and neww facilities.
Well, we could certainly use some new crags, I suppose.
jcm
In reply to king louis:
Probably not, seeing as they've already voted to drop softball and baseball and replace them with...
<dramatic pause>
nothing.
You've missed the boat, I'm afraid. Try pushing for them ot be included in the Paris games, which will be held seven years after other countries stop 'cheating' by having better bids...
> I'm relatively new to climbing but should'nt we all push for climbing or bouldering as one of our 2 new olympic sports
Probably not, seeing as they've already voted to drop softball and baseball and replace them with...
<dramatic pause>
nothing.
You've missed the boat, I'm afraid. Try pushing for them ot be included in the Paris games, which will be held seven years after other countries stop 'cheating' by having better bids...
In reply to mac_climb:
we are not as good as the french and other such nations, so we wouldn't win.
if we take away all the bolts and get them climbing some big bold routes using trad then we could seperate the men from the boys !!
we are not as good as the french and other such nations, so we wouldn't win.
if we take away all the bolts and get them climbing some big bold routes using trad then we could seperate the men from the boys !!
In reply to king louis:
I know competition climbing is removed from the raw and true nature of climbing out in nature but it has its place for training if nothing else. The main reason climbing is boring to watch is because you just can't see whats going on. I don't think it is as boring as say archery (personal opinion). I think bouldering would provide more entertainment because of the quick turnover of competitors.
In terms of making it more viewable for television this requires better camera work which is certainly not impossible.
One thing that tends to seperate climbing from most other activities is that it is quite subjective. You compete against a climb and other competitors across several routes, but how do you weight an individuals performance other than assuming every route is of equal difficulty and has no significant bias of style. Balance of route styles to encorporate many elements of the activity is hard and without this a route can certainly be biased.
I know competition climbing is removed from the raw and true nature of climbing out in nature but it has its place for training if nothing else. The main reason climbing is boring to watch is because you just can't see whats going on. I don't think it is as boring as say archery (personal opinion). I think bouldering would provide more entertainment because of the quick turnover of competitors.
In terms of making it more viewable for television this requires better camera work which is certainly not impossible.
One thing that tends to seperate climbing from most other activities is that it is quite subjective. You compete against a climb and other competitors across several routes, but how do you weight an individuals performance other than assuming every route is of equal difficulty and has no significant bias of style. Balance of route styles to encorporate many elements of the activity is hard and without this a route can certainly be biased.
In reply to king louis:
Very bad idea. It would be the death knell of climbing. Few would benefit, for many it would cost.............the crags are already suffering under the weight of too many hands and feet due to increased numbers of climbers (see many examples on UK threads) caused by sport climbing, climbing walls, and media attention
It's fairly cheap to make a home climbing wall, there are lots of crags and climbing walls all over the UK.
Apart from that it'll never happen.
Mick
> I'm relatively new to climbing but should'nt we all push for climbing or bouldering as one of our 2 new olympic sports as it seems to be something we are very good at in the UK.
Very bad idea. It would be the death knell of climbing. Few would benefit, for many it would cost.............the crags are already suffering under the weight of too many hands and feet due to increased numbers of climbers (see many examples on UK threads) caused by sport climbing, climbing walls, and media attention
> Also it would mean there would be decent investment in training and new facilities.
It's fairly cheap to make a home climbing wall, there are lots of crags and climbing walls all over the UK.
Apart from that it'll never happen.
Mick
In reply to king louis: I think the icc is trying to get climbing into the 2012 olympics as a demonstration sport I was at the Munich World championships and the climbing there was not boring the camera work allowed the viewers to see the holds the climber was using you could see the effort and comitment required and the crowd were fantastic you also could understand what was going on so you new what the next climber had to do to win.
as for the other countries being better that the Brits I dont think that is true our team are capable of winning and there is a lot of talent coming through that will be competitive in the seniors by 2012
as for the other countries being better that the Brits I dont think that is true our team are capable of winning and there is a lot of talent coming through that will be competitive in the seniors by 2012
In reply to Mick Ryan: Mick you know you are talking shite. The apparent increase in numbers does not appear to have happened at UK crags (apart from the Comlech boulders). What is your recent experience of increased numbers at Uk crags apart from your do in the Lakes.
There are other arguments about comps/Olympics/etc but increased numbers has not shown itself to be true yet. Increased concerntration, possibly, incresaed numbers, not in my greater (recent) experience than yours.
There are other arguments about comps/Olympics/etc but increased numbers has not shown itself to be true yet. Increased concerntration, possibly, incresaed numbers, not in my greater (recent) experience than yours.
In reply to Mick Ryan: And making money out of guidebooks hasn't promoted climbing has it?
Didn't the Nazis give the Eiger Nordwand team an Olympic Gold medal ?
I believe there was an attempt to give Hillary and co. medals as well, but they just told them to stuff it.
The correct response, in my opinion.
I might be wrong there. This is just off the top of my head, and I can't be bothered to check, lol.
In reply to GraemeA at home:
Guidebooks promote areas within the climbing community. They don't encourage non-climbers to start climbing. The Olympics and its attendent media whore-age would expose millions of non-climbers to climbing. Climbing is already hip and will get hipper as more people rush to escape over crowded UK towns and cities. My guess is that climbing's popularity would experience another surge like it did in the 90's if it ever became an Olympic sport.
Are you sure that the UK crags and the thin patina of rock like gritstone could cope with increased numbers? The BMC and British climbers are having to cope with over-usage and uneducated new climbers now.....seems to be a growing problem.
Are you really sure that that climbing numbers haven't increased and that we have all just shifted to different venues? You might be right, you might be wrong. Can you be sure?
I'm sure it would be a great honour for you Graeme if the climbing became an Olympic Sport and with your great experience in competition climbing over the years you would benefit not only mentaly but of course financially.
But can you assure us all that it wouldn't result in popular crags getting even more popular and the rock getting trashed, or even major access limitations and restrictions imposed by land owners and the National Parks Authorities.
I hit Pembroke, the Peak, Lancashire and Yorkshire as well as the Lakes. It were great. Looking forward to my next trip quite soon.
Mick
> (In reply to Mick Ryan) And making money out of guidebooks hasn't promoted climbing has it?
Guidebooks promote areas within the climbing community. They don't encourage non-climbers to start climbing. The Olympics and its attendent media whore-age would expose millions of non-climbers to climbing. Climbing is already hip and will get hipper as more people rush to escape over crowded UK towns and cities. My guess is that climbing's popularity would experience another surge like it did in the 90's if it ever became an Olympic sport.
Are you sure that the UK crags and the thin patina of rock like gritstone could cope with increased numbers? The BMC and British climbers are having to cope with over-usage and uneducated new climbers now.....seems to be a growing problem.
Are you really sure that that climbing numbers haven't increased and that we have all just shifted to different venues? You might be right, you might be wrong. Can you be sure?
I'm sure it would be a great honour for you Graeme if the climbing became an Olympic Sport and with your great experience in competition climbing over the years you would benefit not only mentaly but of course financially.
But can you assure us all that it wouldn't result in popular crags getting even more popular and the rock getting trashed, or even major access limitations and restrictions imposed by land owners and the National Parks Authorities.
I hit Pembroke, the Peak, Lancashire and Yorkshire as well as the Lakes. It were great. Looking forward to my next trip quite soon.
Mick
In reply to just:
I doubt it, as they don't have demonstration sports in the olympics any more.
> I think the icc is trying to get climbing into the 2012 olympics as a demonstration sport
I doubt it, as they don't have demonstration sports in the olympics any more.
In reply to Simon Caldwell: Correct, demo sports last happened in 1996.
Climbing is not on the short list for inclusion in 2012. The next shortlist will be out in about 3 years and if climbing is on that list there is a possibility that it could be included on the programme if the international governing body (UIAA-ICC), the hosts and the IOC agree.
Climbing is not on the short list for inclusion in 2012. The next shortlist will be out in about 3 years and if climbing is on that list there is a possibility that it could be included on the programme if the international governing body (UIAA-ICC), the hosts and the IOC agree.
If any of you could be bothered to do an eency bit of research, rather than slagging eachother off all the time, you'd find out that Climbing (routes and bouldering) is an olympic recognised sport and there are firm plans to include it in the 2020 olympics.
This would definitely mean investment in decent facilities and coaches. Personally, I think there could be quite a few Brits who could do very well. If I here that "the French are better than us" again I probably scream. Why exactly? We've got some bloody good international competition climbers, and that's without a climbing centre of excellence which the French have. Imagine how good some of the already good youth climbers could be by 2020 if they had specific training, in world class facilities and world class coaches.
However, there still seems to be this miserable, defeatist, self pitying attitude towards the whole thing at the moment.
This would definitely mean investment in decent facilities and coaches. Personally, I think there could be quite a few Brits who could do very well. If I here that "the French are better than us" again I probably scream. Why exactly? We've got some bloody good international competition climbers, and that's without a climbing centre of excellence which the French have. Imagine how good some of the already good youth climbers could be by 2020 if they had specific training, in world class facilities and world class coaches.
However, there still seems to be this miserable, defeatist, self pitying attitude towards the whole thing at the moment.
In reply to South West Tim: stop slagging us off.
Lets not put anymore sports in the olympics. There is too many events in it already. Its meant to be a spectacle and indor climbing most definately is not. If we go on expanding it sooner or lkater we'll end up with ridiculous events like radio contol car racing or something similar.
Geoff.
Geoff.
In reply to mac_climb:
I doubt pooing will ever make it as an Olympic sport.
> (In reply to king louis) And also as people told me it is a bit boring to watch, but then again isn't Kaking and archery
I doubt pooing will ever make it as an Olympic sport.
In reply to Mick Ryan: Of course I can not assure you about anything in the future, I do not possess a crystal ball, as you do not.
But would you care to clarify exactly how I would personally benefit from climbing being included in any Olympic programme.
But would you care to clarify exactly how I would personally benefit from climbing being included in any Olympic programme.
In reply to South West Tim: Tim, I am on the ICC management Committee, please tell what higher authority your info comes from.
In reply to GraemeA at home:
Now, now Graeme, you ain't daft. They'll need competition climbing experts, and you are an expert.....probably one of the most qualified in the UK. The UIAA would benefit greatly too....the individual officers.
That's what the Olympics are partly about these days isn't it....money.
Do the UIAA still have that reward fund to be paid to the individuals who help make climbing an Olympic sport. I remember that one making the rounds a few years ago.
M
> (In reply to Mick Ryan) Of course I can not assure you about anything in the future, I do not possess a crystal ball, as you do not.
>
> But would you care to clarify exactly how I would personally benefit from climbing being included in any Olympic programme.
>
> But would you care to clarify exactly how I would personally benefit from climbing being included in any Olympic programme.
Now, now Graeme, you ain't daft. They'll need competition climbing experts, and you are an expert.....probably one of the most qualified in the UK. The UIAA would benefit greatly too....the individual officers.
That's what the Olympics are partly about these days isn't it....money.
Do the UIAA still have that reward fund to be paid to the individuals who help make climbing an Olympic sport. I remember that one making the rounds a few years ago.
M
In reply to GraemeA at home:
Both the IOC and UIAA have sections on their websites explaining the current situation regarding climbing in the Olympics. It's a sad state of affairs when someone who works for the sport's UK governing body doesn't know what's going on, and has such a selfish attitude. No wonder the cimbing is still in the dark ages compared to so many other sports.
Both the IOC and UIAA have sections on their websites explaining the current situation regarding climbing in the Olympics. It's a sad state of affairs when someone who works for the sport's UK governing body doesn't know what's going on, and has such a selfish attitude. No wonder the cimbing is still in the dark ages compared to so many other sports.
In reply to South West Tim:
Graeme's away right now, but when it comes to competition climbing, he definately knows what's going on.
If anyone has more questions about the Olympics, you can always email him at graeme@thebmc.co.uk. Or post on here and wait till he gets back from wherever he's escaped to for a reply...
Graeme's away right now, but when it comes to competition climbing, he definately knows what's going on.
If anyone has more questions about the Olympics, you can always email him at graeme@thebmc.co.uk. Or post on here and wait till he gets back from wherever he's escaped to for a reply...
In reply to king louis: What's the point of climbing competitions at all? It's nonsense if you ask me, trying to stuff an activity based on freedom, risk, the great outdoors, into a slot for which it just isn't suited. Who cares who can crank harder on plywood? Artificial to the point of abstraction... But then I can't see the point of having bouldering grades, and I quickly get bored with sport climbing. So perhaps I'm coming at it from the wrong angle entirely. Call me a fuddy duddy...
But no, I think it'd be a bad thing for British climbing in that it is already over-exposed, and there are far too many indoor climbers, and plebs like me swamping the crags (at least in venues frequented by the unimaginative of those living in England)
But no, I think it'd be a bad thing for British climbing in that it is already over-exposed, and there are far too many indoor climbers, and plebs like me swamping the crags (at least in venues frequented by the unimaginative of those living in England)
In reply to Dan Bailey:
Because some people like to compete?
"What's the point of climbing competitions at all? It's nonsense if you ask me, trying to stuff an activity based on freedom, risk, the great outdoors, into a slot for which it just isn't suited. Who cares who can crank harder on plywood?" - who cares who can kick a ball into a net the most times? who cares who can drive the fastest?.. maybe you are just not into competetive sport?
You can probably argue the same thing about many activities/sport. Surfing, sailing, ski mountaineering and skate board come to mind. The cynical will always point out that there is a commercial interest in promoting competition, and of course there has to be other wise great events cannot take place. Its about creating a spectacle and creating a controlled environment so that you know who is best within those rules. Has it got a greater purpose? no but show me a sport that does.
When sport climbing started back in 85 19 of the worlds best freeclimbers signed a petition against competitions. Out of this group only one was never to take part in a competition. The others went on to compete and even win world titles. Some of these same people went on to push the standards in trad climbing, alpine and big wall climbing. I think it is a very blinkered view if you cannot see the place of competition in the world of climbing. It has always been there, maybe not on your weekend jaunt but the greater world of climbing does have a competetive element.
The UK does have a lot of excellent climbers but the only thing that counts in competition climbing are the results.. thats the whole point. When was the last time that Steve McClure, probably our best sports climber wth fantastic success on rock, has finished in the top 10 at an international event? The recent youth world cup is I guess an indication of who would be at the top over the next 8 years and as for 2020 they probably havent even started climbing yet. Angela Eiter was 16 when she won at the Arco Rockmasters against the best in the world. In the mens I think Adam Ondra and David Lama will be hard to beat. Name one person who is at their level in the UK.
"But no, I think it'd be a bad thing for British climbing in that it is already over-exposed, and there are far too many indoor climbers" - really climbing overexposed? compared to what?
Mick I think you are being somewhat naive when you say guidebooks do not attract people to the sport. It is a small part in the bigger picture. Nicely illustrated guides, well laid out and packaged full of glossy piccies do make the sport more attractive, just as a car park at the foot of stanage, a cabel car up the midi all add up to make the sport easier to get into. You cannot help it, what ever you do draws attention to the activity.
I think climbing does have a greater claim than some other sports to be included in the olympics (such as rugby and tennis) but that is more a question of what the olympics should be as opposed to should competetive climbing exist.
Because some people like to compete?
"What's the point of climbing competitions at all? It's nonsense if you ask me, trying to stuff an activity based on freedom, risk, the great outdoors, into a slot for which it just isn't suited. Who cares who can crank harder on plywood?" - who cares who can kick a ball into a net the most times? who cares who can drive the fastest?.. maybe you are just not into competetive sport?
You can probably argue the same thing about many activities/sport. Surfing, sailing, ski mountaineering and skate board come to mind. The cynical will always point out that there is a commercial interest in promoting competition, and of course there has to be other wise great events cannot take place. Its about creating a spectacle and creating a controlled environment so that you know who is best within those rules. Has it got a greater purpose? no but show me a sport that does.
When sport climbing started back in 85 19 of the worlds best freeclimbers signed a petition against competitions. Out of this group only one was never to take part in a competition. The others went on to compete and even win world titles. Some of these same people went on to push the standards in trad climbing, alpine and big wall climbing. I think it is a very blinkered view if you cannot see the place of competition in the world of climbing. It has always been there, maybe not on your weekend jaunt but the greater world of climbing does have a competetive element.
The UK does have a lot of excellent climbers but the only thing that counts in competition climbing are the results.. thats the whole point. When was the last time that Steve McClure, probably our best sports climber wth fantastic success on rock, has finished in the top 10 at an international event? The recent youth world cup is I guess an indication of who would be at the top over the next 8 years and as for 2020 they probably havent even started climbing yet. Angela Eiter was 16 when she won at the Arco Rockmasters against the best in the world. In the mens I think Adam Ondra and David Lama will be hard to beat. Name one person who is at their level in the UK.
"But no, I think it'd be a bad thing for British climbing in that it is already over-exposed, and there are far too many indoor climbers" - really climbing overexposed? compared to what?
Mick I think you are being somewhat naive when you say guidebooks do not attract people to the sport. It is a small part in the bigger picture. Nicely illustrated guides, well laid out and packaged full of glossy piccies do make the sport more attractive, just as a car park at the foot of stanage, a cabel car up the midi all add up to make the sport easier to get into. You cannot help it, what ever you do draws attention to the activity.
I think climbing does have a greater claim than some other sports to be included in the olympics (such as rugby and tennis) but that is more a question of what the olympics should be as opposed to should competetive climbing exist.
In reply to Mick Ryan: "Guidebooks promote areas within the climbing community. They don't encourage non-climbers to start climbing. The Olympics and its attendent media whore-age would expose millions of non-climbers to climbing. Climbing is already hip and will get hipper as more people rush to escape over crowded UK towns and cities. My guess is that climbing's popularity would experience another surge like it did in the 90's if it ever became an Olympic sport. "
My guess would be that removing all guideboks from the bookshelves would have a far greater effect on the numbers climbing in the uk than would any short lived media whore event.
My guess would be that removing all guideboks from the bookshelves would have a far greater effect on the numbers climbing in the uk than would any short lived media whore event.
In reply to Anonymous: God your a dull sarcastic tw*t
In reply to king louis: Climing comps only tend to be interesting to other climbers - 'other' people don't seem to be amazed by the skill shown by the guy dangling from one fnger and grunting!
In reply to necromancer85: yup i think in most cases people dont understand what is going on since they know very little about climbing. They like to see people taking big lobs and the excitement of a fast paced and dynamic boulder comp. The only format I have seen that I think people understand immediatley is the simultaneous climbing format. Two people on identical parallel routes. The winner is the first to the top.. but its not like the velocity competition since the routes are difficult (8a +) and it is really interesting watching two people climbing the same route in differing styles, and where they take a gamble.
however that is not a reason why it should not be in the olympics.. there are already many sports where the subtleties escape the average viewer. I know nothing about the skills in judo or x class yachting but if i find myself watching it whilst muncing my breakfast maybe I will. if you are suggesting popularity and viewability is the criteria for an olympic sport then our screens will be full of more football, rugby and tennis
however that is not a reason why it should not be in the olympics.. there are already many sports where the subtleties escape the average viewer. I know nothing about the skills in judo or x class yachting but if i find myself watching it whilst muncing my breakfast maybe I will. if you are suggesting popularity and viewability is the criteria for an olympic sport then our screens will be full of more football, rugby and tennis
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