UKC

what does everyone think of them?

In reply to simon ashmore: Direct copy of REI without the Members discount but with same US prices except they stuck a £ instead of the $ in front. And they dont have ice axes as door handles. Helpful, some staff fairly knowledgeable, expensive.

In reply to simon ashmore: i bought my sons rock shoes from there they seemed to know wat they were talking about but to be honist i thought they were a little expensive i had a beter deal else where (leek) now closed sadley

In reply to simon ashmore: I havent brought anything from them for a while but they seem a little expensive, but saying that they allways have a large range of stock

In reply to simon ashmore: No more expensive than any other retailer as they will price match. They have excellent service and knowledge just as rock and run do.

In reply to simon ashmore:

Since they have no Scottish presence, my experience of them is limited to internet ordering. Unlike Field & Trek and The Outdoor Shop, their website doesn't seem to offer stuff they can't supply. They have some excellent bargains in their sales like my latest order; an Exped downmat for £50 instead of £100.

In reply to simon ashmore:
Good shop with mainly high end kit. They can be 5-10% more expensive than other places but their staff do tend to know what they are talking about, most of the time. Their sales are excellent, have bought quite a few things from them at half price. Never bought anything online from them so no idea how they fare in that manner.

Why do you ask....had a bad experience or just wondering?

In reply to simon ashmore: I think their staff's knowledge seems to vary from shop to shop. Most of the staff in the skiing departments seem pretty knowledgeable.

In reply to simon ashmore:
I bought some B2 boots from them. First guy at Grays Inn road shop helped me, then said the people at Camden were more expert and gave me the choice of going there. (Always counts in my book if a shop sends business elsewhere in the interests of the customer).
The chap at the second store knew his boots and took about 40 minutes to let me try a couple extensively to be sure on the fit. I'm happy. At the end of the day they weren't the cheapest boots around and cost lots less on the Internet - but I paid for service and knowledge.

In reply to simon ashmore:

They get worse and worse - less stock, more un-knowledgeable and rude people, and don't forget that winter is coming and soon the will turn into solely a ski shop.

In reply to simon ashmore:

VERY good sales

got Arcteryx sidewinder SV jacket for £240 reduced from £400

In reply to simon ashmore: As I work right above the Holborn branch, I feel well-qualified to answer this one. Best thing about S&R is that it's often first to stock brands from across the Pond that are difficult to get hold of in the UK - JetBoil, Osprey, Arc'teryx etc. I also like their store design, which is way ahead of older brands like F&T (which is in trouble, I understand) and Cotswold. Worst thing is their marketing, clearly aimed at the cringeworthy 'lifestyle' market. The fact their Covent Garden branch sells Prada skiwear says it all, really. Sadly, I think the UK outdoor shop market is heading down the same road as our US cousins, thanks to chains like S&R and The North Face retail stores. The other thing that drives me mad about S&R is their mail-order 'service', which is light-years behind web-only operations in terms of responsiveness and delivery times.

In reply to simon ashmore: smelly staff but good sales

In reply to simon ashmore:

yep definitely a lifestyle store. browsing through their catalogue there are loads of mistakes and lots of really drossy blurb. Catalogue no longer has pitons (not sure if some stores do) but again suggests they're becoming more lifestyle and less able to cater for specialists.

In reply to simon ashmore:

Good for ski boots. Wouldn't buy climbing gear from them. Should change their name to 'Snow'. Owned by forever friends(?) bears' owners.

In reply to simon ashmore:

The Bristol store seems a bit like a clothing boutique with a few bits of metalwear to make it look more hardcore.

Having said which, although I've experienced some utterly useless staff there ("You don't need a hood on your jacket for Scottish winter"), I have had some very useful service and advice from some staff there.

Found their web sales to be a bit of a joke though, having twice ordered items that were in stock on the website but not in the real world, and at one point being told I should 'pop into the covent garden store to see if its in stock there' by their call centre. They obviously weren't looking at my address (Edinburgh) at the time.

In reply to simon ashmore:

They were OK when they were the closest outdoor shop to where I worked in Bristol - good bargains in the sale, but nothing special apart from that. Price match guarantee never seemed to work in practice, either...... there was always an excuse why it didn't meet their criteria.

Haven't used them since I left Bristol.

In reply to simon ashmore:
Very good sales but dont understand their BMC discounts. Have to look at the codes on the labels to make sure they are in the mountaineering range otherwise they wont give you 10% off. I do find they are more expensive especialy as you can get better discount elsewhere, like Peglers in Arundal (15% and very informative) and Cotswolds (10% but not much informative advice for experienced climbers)

In reply to simon ashmore:

Went last week for leashless tools.

no leashless tools

still s'pose it was August.

In reply to simon ashmore:
overpriced,very much so.
howeverthe best thing i got from them (mailorder) a trango 2 for £280.apart from that i try to avoid if possible

In reply to simon ashmore:

I've always found them to have great sales - Arcteryx jackets less than half price, etc...

bought my Sportiva makalu's from there and the service was absolutely brilliant - would recommend them to anyone

In reply to simon ashmore:
>>what does everyone think of them?

When fallen onto, one is always hard and stiff, while the other varies in consistency from from stiff to firm to soft and squishy like falling into a vat of pulped and lemon-scented cabbage. No comparison.

I am so surprised that everyone thinks they are overpriced. they will match any price in Europe of the same model as long as the other retailer has it there in stock! thats pretty good in my opinion!

What do people think of the manchester store by the way?

In reply to simon ashmore:

As long as the other retailer has exactly the same model (and colour) in stock, and they can confirm this. Sounds great in theory, but I've never known it work so well in practice - they've always seemed reluctant to even try, haven't always been able to get through to other retailers by phone, or have got through, but the staff member in the other shop (reasonably enough) doesn't speak much english.

In reply to simon ashmore: The Manchester store is AMAZING!!!!

In reply to simon ashmore: I've used them many time's, particulary helpful at the covent garden branch. I bought my climbing and approach shoes there, and when they didn't have the right size in stock, took them less than 48 hour to get in.

In reply to Carolyn: All seems very reasonable to me, why shouldn't they check your not bulling them? Have you tried it?

In reply to simon ashmore:

Yes, probably on half a dozen occassions, although admittedly not within the last few years.

They never ended up being able to confirm the price match; I've always ended up buying from the alternative supplier who they "couldn't contact"......

In reply to Carolyn: think if you read their terms and conditions its up to you to provide them with the contact details of the other supplier, asit is in your interest after all

In reply to Carolyn: And why go to a shop with the intention of buying something if you know you can get it cheaper elsewhere?

In reply to simon ashmore:

Yes, I've given them a phone number & other contact details. I was always given the impression staff were looking for an excuse not to bother chasing it up.

Why's it in my interest? I can get the gear from the other supplier just as easily - it might take a day longer to arrive by post. Costs me the same, plus I get to talk to someone helpful.

It does seem to vary slightly from store to store. I live on the west edge of London, and therefore go to both the Covent Garden and Chertsey stores fairly regularly. Chertsey is fine if you know exactly what you want and you know they have it, whereas Covent Garden is great to go and look at a huge range of gear and get advice from very knowledable staff.

In reply to simon ashmore:

i went to the one in manchester and i have to say the staff were the most condecending bunch of ''''''' have ever met .

Go to Cotswold in Manchester or the one at the wall its miles better. the staff know about climbing gear there and don't treat you like some bumbling idiot .

So why shop there if you can get everthing you need elsewhere? or do you just like comparing prices and moaning about it?

In reply to simon ashmore: I went to buy a Marmot sleeping bag in the Bristol store some time last year, only to find that the "store price" was a full £50 more than the catalogue and internet price! Staff in general don't seem to have a clue about anything

In reply to anonymous1: You must have deserved it mate. I've found them very helpful in the past. Cotswolds mmmmm i remember them load of slackers very un helpfull bunch unless you know them.

In reply to gareth uglow: Think thats most of Bristol though! not just Snow and Rock.

In reply to simon ashmore:

You're doing nothing to enhance my opinion of their customer service.

It's got very little to do with price, really. I'm happy to pay a slight premium to support a local or specialist shop that gives decent advice, and seems pleased to have me in the shop (even if that's in the form of friendly insults!!).

Stick to the independents for climbing gear. Rock and Run, Needlesports, V12, Urban Rock, Rock On etc etc.

In reply to simon ashmore:

simon,

you aren't going to bring any more customers into the manchester branch by being argumentative with them.

though to be honest, it sounds like you don't much like customers, so that's not a bad thing then.

In reply to Carolyn: They were meant as friendly insults, I can only speak for myself when it comes to customer service and although you may feel like i'm being unhelpfull. i know that i have no trouble in going out of my way to help a customer be it with something such as a price match.

In reply to simon ashmore:

As I say, you've done nothing to convince me to go back.

You started a thread asking for people's opinions on Snow & Rock, but have shown no sign of actually wanting to hear them.

In reply to Carolyn:


Would you pay a greater premium for more insults? Or do you think they should just come as part of the service?

In reply to satori: I can see your point, and contary to your thoughts i do like customers and do enjoy helping them and advising them as best i can, i'm more or less just frustrated to hear that some people get bad customer service. I dont like to hear this as i feel that i go out of my way to help as many people as i can that come in to the store.

In reply to Carolyn: I'm all ears

In reply to simon ashmore:

Why remove the bit about working at S+R from your profile? It were there a little while ago...

In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run: On advice from my lawers

In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run:

lol. maybe they've sacked him.

In reply to satori: They might just do that

In reply to simon ashmore:

Is that Ben Lawers, lives up near Loch Tay?

so anyone got any more thoughts on them ? before i loose my job

In reply to simon ashmore:

THe doris picked up an MSR tent at a bloody good price in the sale.

I bought a pair of technical axes from them a couple of years ago and had to explain that no- I did not want both of then with adzes.

They always seem to have snow stakes in stock, which many other places (in London do not).

but I prefer to go to a more speiclaised shop such as Peglers, R&R or Needlesports. The bigger chains try to cater for too many markets and in London, with notable exceptions ten to hire Antipodean travellers who have limited climbing experience.

and, at the end of the day the parent company sells greetings cards....

In reply to simon ashmore:


Sh*te, utter & complete sh*te.
Ok if you are an Alpine skier,. otherwise forget them & go elsewhere. Couldn`t even get decent advice re socks!

In reply to Nevis-the-cat: Yes good deals can be had at the mo, i do agree that they are trying to cover to much of the market. and because they hire a lot of "travelling" staff there is a high turnover in staff and not the best level of knowledge all the time.

In reply to wizz walker: Sorry to hear that

In reply to simon ashmore:

If I were forced to buy from a chain I would do so from Tisos, Ultimate Outdoors or Snow+Rock (in that order I think). But I can think of no good reason why I have picked these three other than 'gut instinct'. Perhaps one encounters rather more climbers in these shops rather than in other chains.

In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run: I agree, i often shop in outside in Hathersage or cotswold in manchester, but only cos i know there are climbers there and can chat to them about products our shop may not be stocking or whats there opinions on gear are. It does annoy me that a lot of big chains in the outdoor business employ staff with no idea about the products there stocking.

In reply to simon ashmore:

That's because very few climbers will want to work for a large (relatively) and inflexible organisation for crap money.

A well known young Scots climber with a first ascent and repeat list as good as anyone could wish for went for a job with a chain. They wouldn't give him two consecutive days off so he'd have no chance of getting any winter routes done. Any sensible shop would have bitten his hand off and offered him 4 days a week if he wanted imnsho.

In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run: Yeah that is one reason, but i havn;t had that problem at all whilst i've been there, have found my manager very helpfull in giving me time off to go climbing.

OH and by the way i am an employee of S+R

In reply to simon ashmore: Can you explain why Arcteryx is so expensive in UK yet it is not expensive in Canada. A Bora 95 is on sale at MEC for CN$409 or £186. There is only 2.7% duty and 17.5% VAT. Shipping should not be much more than £20 since individual courier is £45 which gives a total of £250 yet it is £350 at S&R. Macpac sell their stuff in UK for the same or less than it is in New Zealand so why cant Arcteryx? Who is putting on the mark up because its nothing to do with customs duty, VAT or shipping.

In reply to ian2u: your guess is as good as mine, but as you said it is on sale, and i bet the s+r one isn't. perhaps its the company who import it to the uk then pass it on to the retailers??? By the way there is a lot of arcteryx gear in the s+R sale Gamma MX Hoody 50% off

In reply to simon ashmore: Bad phrasing of mine. The CN$409 is the normal price MEC sell it for, its not on Sale as in reduced. Same mark up seems to apply to other Arcteryx clothes and equipment. In Canada they are just normal price gear but in UK they are maybe the most expensive brand. The Importers say it's not them, S&R say its not them either, it's a mystery.

In reply to ian2u: its not just s+r with the higher prices on Arcteryx, do not know why they are higher over here, but it is good kit( if it fits you). it is rather pricey though

In reply to ian2u: So who from S+R said its not them putting this huge mark up?

In reply to ian2u:

The MEC is anomalous as it is a co-operative.

Retail outlets other than MEC in Calgary, Canmore and Banff were selling Arcteryx clothing for UK prices in Jan 05. I can see no reason why the two weeks I was there should have seen a sudden price hike.

I have no idea why it is so pricey in the UK. I would guess that it is in fact duty, despite your theory. Perhaps there is a more sinister reason but I doubt it. S+R are not the sole outlet for Arcteryx and their prices are no higher than (let us say) The Climbers Shop, Ambleside (sales excluded).

It isn't retailers (were the mark up huge -which it certainly is not- then anyone could sell it cheaper and still make normal margins. Someone would 'break ranks' and then more would follow).

I doubt it's the distributors. Which leaves Arcteryx and HM Custom and Excise as the likely culprits.

In reply to simon ashmore: Agreed Arcteryx is a high price throughout UK, not just S&R. Their Portsmouth store said the mark up was same as most. I found it cheaper to import it from REI paying the US markup and VAT and Duty and FedEx charges than get it in UK. You cant buy it from Canada now, the stores there will not ship International. Their gear is good but not worth the price differential that seems to exist in UK.

I do not mind the S&R prices being a bit more, they have to pay for a much larger stock and their no quibble returns policy etc. My objection is the price differential in UK generally.

Did S&R deliberately make their stores to be a copy of the REI ones? Except for the Ice Axe door handles it's uncanny. It's like B&Q Warehouse copying The Home Depot.

In reply to ian2u:

How will you get the right size when nobody in the UK bothers stocking it due to the higher prices leading to folk buying overseas?


leading to bigger discounts from the suppliers...

and their no quibble returns policy etc.

fair dos

My objection is the price differential in UK generally.

What's wrong with that, if they did?


I'm not having a dig at you here (honest). I'm just trying to point out that some of your reasoning above is flawed.

In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run: Isn't outdoor retail fun!

In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run: I am happy if S&R copy REI since I like the REI stores it would just be nice if they copied REI prices as well. The problem seems to be as you hinted, if prices are high you dont sell much so you have to make them higher still to cover overheads until you price yourself out of the market. And the reverse is the virtuous circle. The shop is the only one that can control this, it is not up to us the buyers other than to vote with our feet or mice. I guess what is needed is ASDA and some grey imports but the market is too small to warrant their attention.

In reply to simon ashmore:

is this some kind of market research, si?

1 things that's good is the eye candy (the girls not urself ;op)

In reply to ian2u:

No. The problem is that customers want both good service and the lowest possible price. So they often go to get service but don't buy from the service provider (hypothetically walking into a S+R and trying on a piece of Arcteryx kit and then buying online from overseas). So what possible incentive is there then to give service?

If you go the lowest cost route then you will end up with 'supermarket' shopping and undermotivated staff with no interest in the product they sell. It's happening already.

In the case of Arcteryx, I think it should simply disappear from the UK market. All it does is fuel the 'rip off Britain' myth.

In reply to simon ashmore:

Glorified Decathlon? The only store I went into didnt seem that brilliant. The layout of it seemed really wierd.

In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run:


Oh, as part of the service. And not just in the shop, either - I expect friendly banter around the crags, climbing walls and pubs, too.

And a bit of stand-up comedy never goes a miss - the attempts to give Needlesports staff freebies with Rock&Run logos on at climbing talks is well worth a a slight price premium!

In reply to Carolyn:

They might appreciate some quality kit I'd have thought...

In reply to simon ashmore:

I'm happy to shop there and have done so for a while. i would like them to sharpen their range a bit by bringing in some of the euopean brands like Mammut or Millet esp in clothes and packs. Also they could include a better selection of velcro climbing shoes but these are minor points.

They were more than happy to refund the purchase of a climbing pack because it felt uncomfortable when i started using it. They have also been able to identify if they have stock in other stores and offer to bring it over etc which is nice. I feel the level of service is way better than you could expect in Chamonix (and Europe in general) though this is not saying much....i remember asking for some weights to put in a pack when i was trying one on to be met with blank stares in Cham....no such prob in S&R.

If i was an investor it's not the sort of business i would want to be in.....i mean you pay loads of money upfront to stock a massive space that costs an arm and a leg and then the general public come in and fondle your merchandise, read your magazines and books then walk out.

Also - anyone know why they don't stock the latest Portland guide?

Apparently all of the High Street chains are doing poorly at the moment. The 'summer sales' are continuing on for longer than they ever had. At the end of the day S+R are a High Street brand just like Jigsaw, Karen Miller, Boots, et al. Yes - you can get some good deals on the sales, the odd bit of esoteric gear and perhaps even a bit of helpful customer service.

Unfortunately they can't get by with only stocking specialist gear. I don't believe there are enough climbers in the UK to support a very specialised climbing store in every high street - they need to sell other products to survive.

However I find even the so-called dedicated climbing shops (R&R, Needle Sports, etc.) a bit lacking. I am apparently quite a rarity - a small (5'4'') female who likes to lead multi pitch trad routes. God forbid I wanted an appropriate harness with a 22" waist - or an extra small waterproof that isn't pink and can fit a helmet in the hood. I can get all the strappy tops I never wanted – but what about a pair of proper climbing trousers? I have to either go without or use inappropriate gear quite regularly. I never fit into the 'normal' range.

In reply to simon ashmore: It sounds like you need to hire more climbing-specific staff who know there stuff, rather than just general assistants who haven't actually used any of the products you sell....opinions will vary from store to store and depending on who people are served by too - you may be great at your job and customer service but are all your collegues? Or is that what you're trying to find out...

In reply to Jenn:


<semi-hijack>
in a moment of great happiness I discovered last month that Outside in Hathersage have started stocking more women's trousers (proper ones, not just capri pants for bouldering in), and Needlesports range seems pretty good, (Thaw trousers are TINY for their supposed size) but not many stretchy trousers, which is what's good. bah. Dunno if that's of any help?

</semi hijack>

In reply to simon ashmore: One good thing I just remembered is S&R's boot fitting policy. Apparently, following an initial fitting they'll do anything they can to ensure a better fit (insoles etc.), but if the boots are still giving you trouble, they'll buy them back for 50% of the original price, regardless of their condition. Worth thinking about for next year's mouldy plastics

In reply to CJD:

That's good news about Outside I'll have to check them out. I was hoping that when they got their winter stuff in they would stop it with the bouldering capris!

I do actually have a pair of Thaw trousers and they do fit, but I'm not that found of them. The waist is a bit high for my liking. I have scoliosis (spine curves) and therefore quite a small torso and those trousers just seem to sit up way too high on me.

Cheers though!

An aside rant - who do I have to murder in order to get a wicking bra???? They seem impossible to come by!

In reply to Jenn:

the mammut ones that they had in also looked like a good prospect. RD has scoliosis too, but his is higher up his spine. He's found that climbing's strengthened his back massively - have you found the same?

(sorry Simon for hijacking your thread!)

In reply to TRJ:

Yes - S+R do have a good returns policy. I guess that's something positive about the bigger chains - they can afford to loose a few quid here and there if it means retaining the customer long term.

In reply to CJD:

Cool - I will def. have a look. Yes - climbing helped a ton with my 'slouch'.

Apologies for the hijack as well!

In reply to Swig:

disaster for ski boots .. well one member of staff in london at least. my girlfriend bought new shoes and he managed to put the right inner shoe into the left shell after heating them for fitting. we only found out when i took them out for drying after two days skiing!

apart from that they seemed ok for snow considering it's the uk.

In reply to simon ashmore:
With regards to S+R, I think that they do a reasonable job given that they can't be all things to all people. In the London stores the people who you get working there are probably going to be short-term employees (often seem to be aus/kiwi travelling types) and they don't have the pay or the incentives to learn everything about all the stuff they sell. Sometimes I have been in and got the impression that they really don't care, others I have been served by someone really good.
Often I think the quality of climbing shops is dependent on their geographical location.
FWIW the best service I have ever had was at Peglers. They were happy to discuss gear to the nth degree, knew a huge amount and were actually trying to give me a discount.

S+R's latest range seems to have been chopped brutally; they aren't really stocking much Patagucci anymore. In terms of price, I have never found them to be excessively expensive like for like; they just stock the high end brands.
There was a time when the arc'teryx stuff was absurdly pricey (3 or so yrs ago, when only outside, R+R and S+R seemed to stock them at all) but now they seem in line with all the other places. There was a certain period when the items that you could find elsewhere in the UK were much cheaper relative to the US RRP than the arc'teryx pieces that were "exclusive" to S+R, which really pissed me off. AFAIK the old S+R buyer is now european brand manager for snow and rock so perhaps no surprises there then.

In reply to simon ashmore:

All I want is somewhere that sells Dana Designs and Cloudveil, thereagain, I wear a 1989 Phoenix Lady Brenva in tourquoise, lemon and pink.

It looks shite but because it is a ladies model, it is fitted at the waist and sits under my harness wuite nicely.

oh, and bouldernig beanies are going to be mauve and cerise next year and bloodstains are the new black.

In reply to simon ashmore: Snow and Rock are pretty poor with their prices and knowledge.

I've always found that the staff at cotswolds are very helpful and the prices are good there 2. The new shop at Machester climbing centre is very good and the guys there are very eager 2 help.

Got a really good deal on my new rope there.

In reply to Jenn:


http://uk.aldi.com/special_buys/product_3721.html

"Purpose-designed to give extra support and comfort during sporting activities.

93% polyamide aquator, 7% Lycra
Colours: black, white
Sizes: 34-38 A-C cups
Not all sizes available in all colours
£2.99 each
From 15th September"

Perhaps?

For £3 it'd be rude not to try it.

Got 40% off 5.10 X-Rays (£50 -> £30)
& 80% off some Montrails (£90 -> £18)

during a "up to 60% off weekend" at Snow + Rock
Not a bad deal