UKC

Is There Anyone Has Used The Irbis Titanium Ice Screw?
I think these ice screws is much cheaper than other ones.However it was only $13.5 in REI. I'm afraid it has some potential danger.so i think may be any one could tell me about it.

In reply to Joey: Do some research on here, apparently the hangers rip through once loaded, I threw mine away. Icescrews is one area like boots where you need to spend out for quality, BD and Grivel are the best known brands.

In reply to Jasonic:

I don't think that is true at all. You are talking about the no brand icescrews that were around in the mid-90s. The Irbis ones are on sale in the US and therefore must have passed the relevent safety test otherwise there is no way a big US company like REI would touch them with a barge pole.

Whether they work as well as BD expresses is an entirely different matter.

In reply to TobyA:

They seem to sell them in the US as emergency bale out screws and not for leading. See below

Product Info: Irbis Titanium Ice Screw

See specs below :
Ultra-lightweight, this titanium ice screw is ideal for alpine climbers looking to reduce weight.
Three sharp teeth bite easily into ice, while the carefully engineered allow for quick and easy placement
Thin titanium walls displace a minimal amount of ice
Large hanger is easy to clip and provides ample leverage for easy placement
These screws are not intended for leading on ice due to their small diameter and thread thickness
Because these screws are light and relatively cheap, they are ideal for use as "leaver" screws during retreat/descent
Place them at a +10 degree angle to the ice surface instead of the -10 degree angle that normal screws should be used at
Includes protective tip cover
Placing Titian screws at +10 degrees while rappelling minimizes the chances of the screw "backing out" which would otherwise be more likely because of the small threads and diameter. As with any rappel anchor, these screws should be backed up and never be relied upon as a single point of protection. Imported.


Specs: Irbis Titanium Ice Screw

Specification Description

Weight 100 grams

Length 18 centimeters

Diameter 12 millimeters

In reply to Ron Walker: There is a phsycological element in climbing, I am very happy to climb in cheap kit but worrying about the metalic strength of one of the few runners I have I can do without! For glacier tours and UK winter starting out you don't need that many screws, the basic BD one can be had for about 30 quid.

In reply to Ron Walker: Hmmmm... doesn't sound so healthy does it? I'm suprised that in the US they are willing to sell something with just that kind of disclaimer.

I think Jason is quite right, you don't need too many screws for the vast majority of UK climbs so you might as well get some decent ones.

In reply to Joey: I'm taking three Irbis screws - along with some rather more confidence-inspiring screws - to the Alps this winter. So far as I'm concerned, they're for building belays and for abbing from in extremis. Wouldn't choose to place them on the lead.

Jamie

In reply to TobyA: I the UK they sell russian Titanium screws, which are dire, have no rating and don't even go in... (or are these the same ones?)

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

So they're for places where you need the best, strongest placements, and for where failure of the screw will likely end up in your death?

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

But you would belay on them? That seems some bizarre reasoning...

In reply to Joey: Mark Twight says no.

In reply to Lbos:

as Lbos says, Mark Twight Says no

Also on the 1997 Changabang Expedition they tried to save weight by takinging titium screw. they drppoed half and only one of the other halfe worked. At the end of the Trip Brendan Muphy was killed by avalanche as he had no anncor to clip into while he was rigging a rappel.

Think about, by BD, DMM or Grivel. don't risk you life to save a buck.

Happy climbing

In reply to G Graham and Toby:

They're either safe to ab from, or they're not. The instructions say they're safe to ab from. That's a static load. So is being part of a belay - as long as you can belay properly.

On the lead, they could be shock-loaded, and it is this shockloading of a thinnish metal cylinder that can cause failure.

So yeah; I'll place them as part of a belay but not on the lead.

Incidentally, I know someone who's (I quote) "fallen on them from a long way on steep ice" with no problems.

Jamie

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:
We all make our own decisions.

The difference for me is that when you're abbing, you are definitely loading the anchor. When leading, there's only a smallish chance you'll load it. So when abbing, I'd rather have a good anchor (and would prefer an abolokov) and would be happier having a poor screw above a good belay than a good screw above a poor belay - if that makes sense.

In reply to G Graham:


Agreed. Po-tay-tow, po-tah-tow.

I don't think these screws are as weak as has been made out. I certainly don't think that hanging body weight - even several times body weight - would have a hope in hell of deforming them. I *could* believe that the many-times-greater-than-body-weight forces in a lead fall could cause them to deform, though. Not that I *do* believe it, but I could.

But yes; had I a full rack of BD Turbo Express, then I wouldn't use the Irbis screws

Jamie

In reply to Joey:

i've used these screws for several years before i managed to save enough to buy more trusted brands. i saw mates taking falls on them and i abseiled off them.

i still carry three on my harness on alpine routes for retreats - leave them in the ice when can't make a v-thread or you can actually flatten them with the hammer and use them as a rock piton on mixed routes - again ONLY for abseil in emergency.

they are a bummer to screw in while hanging off a tool on real steep ice and they won't always bite enough so you might need a starter hole. also after several uses one might want to straighten the teeth which tend to curve inside - you can do this with a coin (!!!)

In my view they are good for leavers. u can lead on them but on easy ground. on real steep ice they'll drain you. safe? probably. I never took any falls [the leader never falls ] but some of my mates did and seemed ok - mind you on good WI3.

i used them in Romania in early 90s when even these were kinda luxury. might be on a tight budget but c'mon - it's worth investing in better stuff. There are other brands than BD and PzCh out there with lower prices.

my 2 pennyz worth

C

I am not sure i follow your argument...

In reply to The Great Pretender:

maybe they dropped the wrong half....

>At the end of the Trip Brendan Muphy was killed by >avalanche as he had no anncor to clip into while he was >rigging a rappel.

Not sure it is correct. BM was searching for a good ice screw placement and *had got the screw in* when the avalanche hit him. Aparently a serac above break off. AM not sure that even anchored in two BD screws he could have stand against that....



good point but you din't prove by this post that the irbis screws endanger your life....

In reply to cosmin: They were the ones I was thinking of after all. I had 5 and I've just sold them cos they were tosh. It is dangerous when you're on waterice and you can't get the sodding things in further than an inch or two... I can honestly say that if you are planning on actually doing any ice climbing with them I'd just not bother with them. When you're 20 feet from your last runner and desperate for a screw (hehe) you'll be glad that you bought even a plain BD instead as it zips in at top speed... Its one of the few things thats really worth forking out the cash for, even if you can only buy half as many as you would have in the first place...

In reply to Ron Walker:

I've got a couple of Vaude titaniums, they are rated to 10kN same as BD Turbo Express.

I actually feel more confident placing them in slightly softer ice as they have a larger diameter than the BDs ( == more grip for the screw threads???). They are harder to place but with a manivel they go in OK.

I presume they can be sharpened using a screw sharpening machine same as Grivel and BD.

I usually rack them separately to the BDs and use them when in a non-desperate gear placing spot or for belays.

So should I consign them to glacier crossing duty? I haven't taken a fall on them so they haven't had the acid test yet.

In reply to Robbie H:


Here's the main problem titanium is very hard & has a very coarse cristaline structure. Both of these traits combined make it very hard hard to sharpen & polish. Otherwise it would be the perfect material for screws. Have you ever wondered why the higher quality brands, likes of BD, Grivel, CM don't make titanium screws? There is a reason.

Oh & AFAIK screw sharpening machines will only sharpen & polish screws of the brand that manufactured the machine. This is due to thread gauge, balh, blah, blah you get the gist.

In reply to Frank4short:

Hmmm - I had assumed they would blunt very easily (I don't know why). How do they compare (for holding an edge) to steel in practice?

In reply to Frank4short:


I've got two big fat Camp Ti screws and I've heard this before, but to be honest having sharpened mine numerous times, its tosh. The sharpen as easily as my steel ones. They just don't go in as easily!

In reply to Frank4short:

This is not true. At least with the Grivel machine you can sharpen BDs and Smileys too.

I have two Irbis titanium ice screws and I've found two perfect places to use them. Anchoring the tent over the frozen ground and drilling a hole to ground for the picnic umbrella. I wouldn't use them for ice climbing. The thread looks like a joke and the screw itself is really thin.

In reply to TobyA:

I can't remember if it was your ice screw or Jussi's but one Camp titanium ice looked funny after the lead in Helvetinjärvi. All the teeth were bend inside the screw.

In reply to Juki:


I think it was Jussi's, but damn - it was cold that day! Even the BD ones didn't go in easily. I think it was about -27 wasn't it? I remember my heels went numb which was a first!

In reply to Joey: I would trust them to construct belays on soft low-angle ice, like on glacier ice and the ice layer under neve.
The thin ones can be carried inside fat screws that Lowe and Camp made (makes).