UKC

I know of 2 ways to tie an overhand knot when joining two ropes for abbing. The first is to tie an overhand knot but taking the rope through a second loop. The second method is to tie a single overhand with a second tied immediately after and fitting snogly on top of the first. Is one better than the other?

In reply to ALAN PIKE:

I've never heard of the first one. The second one is favoured by people who worry that the knot may roll.

In reply to ALAN PIKE:

The normal method is to put the ropes side by side with tails IN THE SAME DIRECTION. Treating the pair of ropes as one, simply tie a single overhand knot at least 30cm from the end.

No need for any second knot or anything else.

In reply to ALAN PIKE: If you're joining 2 ropes together I'd use the double fisherman knot, its alot stronger than an overhand knot and works if the ropes are different diameter's (an overhand knot with 2 differing ropes can slip)

In reply to collism: Hmmmmm - I am guessing you haven't endured the endless debates about this? Double Fishermans is a good knot, but it a bitch to undo with cold fingers and often gets stuck. Overhand knot is my favoured choice because it is so simple, easy to undo and asymetric so it moves over edges without getting stuck. However, if you are faint hearted and fearful of all the reports of the overhand knot roling over under extreme forces (which tend not to exist in abseiling), stick with what you know!

In reply to Jon Dittman: You're right about the knot being a bitch to undo, for easy abing i use an overhand, but have had to bail a multipitch with main rope (10.5mm) and haul rope (8.4mm) and was glad of the knowlege of the DF knot

just suppose its good to know both

In reply to Alison Stockwell: Someone I know was is associated with scouting and found the first version on www.scoutingresources.org.uk . I checked and it does'nt mention climbing etc. but I thought I'd check. Personally I alweays use the second method but thanks for replying.

In reply to collism: Hmmmmm - it is funny you mention using the fishermans on multipitch routes. In Yosemite it is common practice to climb on a single rope and take a 7mm dynamic for abing with. The overhand knot is the knot of choice although they called it the European death knot. Not sure why! On multipitch, the last thing you want is for your ropes to get stuck. I would only really use the Fishermans if the other person / people were likely to sue me in the event of something going wrong and to hell with it being a bitch to undo!

In reply to ALAN PIKE:
Stuff about abseil knots here:
http://www.needlesports.com/advice/abseilknots.htm
In short, best option is two overhand knots.

In reply to garethmorgan: Thanks. I'll stick to that from now on. Appreciate it.

In reply to Jon Dittman:

You'll find heaps of discussion about this here and elsewhere. There have been serious incidents where when the ropes were tied in parallel using a fig 8 because the knot rolled. That's where the "death knot" tag came about. At one time it was thought that the overhand knot was prone to this too, but lots of tests have been done, and the consensus is that provided the overhand knot is tied reasonably tightly and is not close to the end it's OK. Some people still prefer to tie two though.
The fig 8 rolls much more easily and is not recommended in this situation.

In reply to ALAN PIKE:

and Alison

The first knot mentioned (with the extra turn) is basically one half of a double fishermans but tied on itself. Sometimes called a barrel knot or blood knot (though these are more commonly tied as a loopedknot).

In reply to Alison Stockwell:

Any reasons not to tie two? More to get snagged perhaps?

In reply to GrahamD: I'm a scaredy cat and leave my tails at least 1metre in length with a single overhand knot. Helps also to make a mental note of which color rope to pull on when u have completed the abseil

In reply to brt:

Well, I've never heard of that knot being used for abseiling, and have no idea whether or not it rolls or if any testing has been done on it. Without that I would not even consider using it.

In reply to Clinger:

I'd guess so. Many people would say it's unecessary to tie two. It's personal preference.

In reply to ali.b:

No problem in that ! - provided of course the tail isn't so long that it can be accidentally clipped into by mistake.

In reply to collism:


what you said is correct, but for absailing, tying a overhand knot with the two ropes pointing in the same way, and tied together, when you pull the rope from whatever it is caught on for the sbsail, it will go over the ground easier. andit is a lot quicker, and as safe if you set all of the tails and rope