UKC

Has anyone used both the "grivel 360 ice screw" and the "black diamond express ice screw"?
Which is easiest to START the placement (which I find the most awkward bit)?? Cheers.

In reply to Adam Booth:

Bought some of each yesterday

will hopefully use them this weekend.

btw - have a look at the Simond Tornado as well

In reply to Adam Booth: I have the 360 and I have got on fine, although my friend has the BD Express and says they have a better 'bite' then the 360.

In reply to Adam Booth: personally find the bd slightly easier to start, but find that having mixture works pretty well-the grivel screws will go places the bd ones won't

In reply to vscott:

It all depends on which is the newest. I personally think BD ones are a tiny bit sharper to start with. I also think they rack better - I have a quite a few of both.

Why do you say the Grivel screws go where the BD ones won't? - surely it's a question of clearing the ice around the placement. If anything there are places the BD's will go where the Grivel's won't because of the smaller BD handle.

In reply to Adam Booth:
360s go in easier and in more places

Expresses rack better

I reach for my 360's first.

In reply to Adam Booth:
Cant fault the DB Espresso. They are soo easy to place.
Aint tried the 360 but BD would be hard to improve on.

In reply to Adam Booth:

I've used both in the past, you can't go far wrong with either, but I found the 360 easier because of the handles.

In reply to jazzyjackson:

the thing with the 360s is that you can put them in in corners and stuff where the hanger on the expresses would stop you turning it.

they don't rack too well at all though. there have been big discussions on this in the past. in the end, you'll get on fine with either, get some of each.

In reply to Adam Booth: I have got both types on my rack today, and have used them for some years now. The 360`s are a pain to rack (I havent got a pipe system), but I reach for the 360`s when I need a screw fast. If I stand relaxed I save the 360`s and use the Black Diamond. Also the smaller head on the 360`s avoids the need for clearing ice around the placement. This saves time, which again saves my pump. If I should buy all my screws new today I would have bought 360`s and included a pipe system for the racking of the screws.

I've got both and honestly couldn't tell the difference between them for starting/biting. Both are really good. (make sure they're super-sharp.

The most dissapointing screw I've found is the Petzl Charlet Laser Sonic, the wee handle is useless for either gripping or using with an attached quickdraw.

Watch your screws on the descent, we lost a few last week due to poor racking system (home made, a bit like the black petzl wiregate crab thingy) it worked great while climbing but we found we had to clip all our screws to screwgates to stop them unclipping themselves with decending.

In reply to Alasdair Fulton: agree with you on not being able to tell the difference from the two. I'd recomend though getting the omega ice screws. You'll have to get them from the states but they are really really cheap (I think about 20 quid a screw if you get a set of 4). They have the same handle as the bd express but it isnt fold away-able - this isnt something that i've found to be a problem at all. The great thing about these screws is that they bite so much better than any screw i have ever tried- and you can really tell. The threads are also alot better in my opinion than those of the sonics/360/express- they are thicker so essentially should hold more weight. Just by putting one in I can really tell the difference in how much extra the omegas can grip- as wierd as it may sound! Cant recomend them enough plus they are dirt cheap (try acme mountaineering....it think).
jon

In reply to jongriffith:
is the omega stuff still made by convicts i wonder?

have also heard good things about their stuff, might have a dabble myself...

In reply to hindu: made by convicts? share the story.....!
yeah their stuff is really good its just that we havnt heard about it over here as they dont sell it in the uk or europe. But if you check US websites there are heaps of very positive reviews on their ice screws. I think they are the guys who came up with that wierd camming device contratption too....wonder how that took off

In reply to Adam Booth: i preferred americanos for starting as the knob on the end helps you open palm spin to get it going

InIn reply to Adam Booth:
360s are definately easier, even if both are brand new. Actually they are quite a noticeable bit easier to get the initial bite started. There definative answer.

oh and Petzl Caritools (plastic Krabs with a flat top for selecting the right length of screw if it isn't first to hand are easier to use than the old charlet paper clip style racking things, but petzl ice flutes racked on your harness are the best things since sliced bread for selecting a screw.
no problems, in fact a very tangle inhibiting racking system with grivel 360s. Thats the conclusions of the 3 (including myself) folks who tried a whole range of options this winter, all found 360s and ice flutes the nicest combo by far. Nothing wrong with the BDs (turbo express)and they probably do go in very slightly faster AFTER first solid bite of the threads in the hole. But as you say its getting that first bite that if the worst bit! 360s handle bumpy ice better too.

In reply to jazzyjackson:
Grivel did. 360s.