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A quick question im after a bit of a discussion to help with my dissertation.
We live in a throw-away society, products are disposed of way before their expiry and our corporate consumer culture is destroying the planet. What are your thoughts on disposing of products so readily? Who is to blame?
We live in a throw-away society, products are disposed of way before their expiry and our corporate consumer culture is destroying the planet. What are your thoughts on disposing of products so readily? Who is to blame?
we are, but what can we do about it. A lot of it is forced upon us, often leaving us with little choice but to dispose of things which would have once been replaced.
In reply to Guy Wilson:
Like sodding plastic carrier bags? Is there actually a way of stopping shop assistants putting every single item you bought into an abundance of plastic carrier bags, even if you told them that you neither need assistance nor bags?
> A lot of it is forced upon us, often leaving us with little choice but to dispose of things which would have once been replaced.
Like sodding plastic carrier bags? Is there actually a way of stopping shop assistants putting every single item you bought into an abundance of plastic carrier bags, even if you told them that you neither need assistance nor bags?
In reply to violentViolet:
Take your own bags to the store
> (In reply to Guy Wilson)
> [...]
>
> Like sodding plastic carrier bags? Is there actually a way of stopping shop assistants putting every single item you bought into an abundance of plastic carrier bags, even if you told them that you neither need assistance nor bags?
> [...]
>
> Like sodding plastic carrier bags? Is there actually a way of stopping shop assistants putting every single item you bought into an abundance of plastic carrier bags, even if you told them that you neither need assistance nor bags?
Take your own bags to the store
it is ture that we force it upon ourselves in the way that we force our society upon ourselves, and apathy very true....
So what do we do to sort it out! Its a big problem and a tough one to tackle...
there is legislation coming in, which is a good thing (WEEE). This is mainly aimed at electronic products, which may help out the problem of 'built-in obsolescence'
So what do we do to sort it out! Its a big problem and a tough one to tackle...
there is legislation coming in, which is a good thing (WEEE). This is mainly aimed at electronic products, which may help out the problem of 'built-in obsolescence'
In reply to violentViolet:
Yes - get one of the sturdy re-usable ones & bring it with you.
Make sure you bring the Morrison's one to Asda; and the Asda one to Sainsbury's etc.
Yes - get one of the sturdy re-usable ones & bring it with you.
Make sure you bring the Morrison's one to Asda; and the Asda one to Sainsbury's etc.
I am sick of carrier bags! thats just getting ridiculous!
They did work on this problem in Japan. by banning a carrier bag of certain minimal thicknes...
so they just started making them thicker
and the japanese continued to treat these as disposable..
They did work on this problem in Japan. by banning a carrier bag of certain minimal thicknes...
so they just started making them thicker
and the japanese continued to treat these as disposable..
In reply to Guy Wilson:
Some Local Councils are considering the option of charging to pick up domestic waste.
Im not sure i agree as it would be just another tax to pay, but it would make society at large a lot more aware of what they throw away, recycle and reuse.
Some Local Councils are considering the option of charging to pick up domestic waste.
Im not sure i agree as it would be just another tax to pay, but it would make society at large a lot more aware of what they throw away, recycle and reuse.
In reply to Hazard: I agree, the local councils are doing a better job.
This may enlighten people somewhat...
I think perhaps its a whole change of attitude required. Not just considering what to do with it once you have finished... but thinkng more about the enivronment before you even buy it.
This may enlighten people somewhat...
I think perhaps its a whole change of attitude required. Not just considering what to do with it once you have finished... but thinkng more about the enivronment before you even buy it.
In reply to violentViolet:
I take the stuff out that they put in. They get the message pretty quickly. And I still use the the cotton bags that I got in Frankfurt umpteen years ago. Why don't we sell them in this country? They last much longer than the plastic re-useable ones.
I take the stuff out that they put in. They get the message pretty quickly. And I still use the the cotton bags that I got in Frankfurt umpteen years ago. Why don't we sell them in this country? They last much longer than the plastic re-useable ones.
In reply to violentViolet:
What? You just say "Don't bother putting them in a bag I'll carry them?" (or something similar), it always works for me, I really don't understand the problem.
> Is there actually a way of stopping shop assistants putting every single item you bought into an abundance of plastic carrier bags, even if you told them that you neither need assistance nor bags?
What? You just say "Don't bother putting them in a bag I'll carry them?" (or something similar), it always works for me, I really don't understand the problem.
In reply to Guy Wilson:
What does this mean exactly? How does a corporate consumer culture differ from a consumer culture?
> corporate consumer culture
What does this mean exactly? How does a corporate consumer culture differ from a consumer culture?
In reply to Hazard:
If they do then get a padlock for your bin.
> (In reply to Guy Wilson)
> Some Local Councils are considering the option of charging to pick up domestic waste.
> Some Local Councils are considering the option of charging to pick up domestic waste.
If they do then get a padlock for your bin.
In reply to SFM:
Why not just ask them not to put stuff in in the first place? Christ the way people are going on here it's as if there is a giant conspiracy by shop assistants to foist plastic bags on us - and we are powerless to resist. We can make changes for ourselves, its not always someone else's fault.
> I take the stuff out that they put in.
Why not just ask them not to put stuff in in the first place? Christ the way people are going on here it's as if there is a giant conspiracy by shop assistants to foist plastic bags on us - and we are powerless to resist. We can make changes for ourselves, its not always someone else's fault.
In reply to Guy Wilson:
I do agree and i dont think that apathy is to blame for most people not bothering, its just that there is so much to think about now that it gets a little bit to much all the time. I think people want to 'do their bit' but you cant do everything.
Take your standard shopping trip for instance...
how do you get there? public transport, private car, what about pollution issues? Then what super market do you choose? are the ethically correct? do they treat their suppliers with respect? Then, what do you buy? Non GM, Organic, Fair trade? Has my fruit been transported by plane thousands of miles? Plastic bag at the end?
There is so much to worry about, that its almost imposssible to cover every thing.
I do agree and i dont think that apathy is to blame for most people not bothering, its just that there is so much to think about now that it gets a little bit to much all the time. I think people want to 'do their bit' but you cant do everything.
Take your standard shopping trip for instance...
how do you get there? public transport, private car, what about pollution issues? Then what super market do you choose? are the ethically correct? do they treat their suppliers with respect? Then, what do you buy? Non GM, Organic, Fair trade? Has my fruit been transported by plane thousands of miles? Plastic bag at the end?
There is so much to worry about, that its almost imposssible to cover every thing.
In reply to Hazard:
It's now in our part of our culture to buy new and shiney over, old and dull yet still workable. Our car broke down in Switzerland. The mechanic rebuilt the alternator. In the UK it would have been binned and a new one bought.
Look at demand for new build houses over older housing stock the past few years, apparently it's substantially up. I suspect that part of it is that we, as nation, are becoming lazier and lazier.
It's now in our part of our culture to buy new and shiney over, old and dull yet still workable. Our car broke down in Switzerland. The mechanic rebuilt the alternator. In the UK it would have been binned and a new one bought.
Look at demand for new build houses over older housing stock the past few years, apparently it's substantially up. I suspect that part of it is that we, as nation, are becoming lazier and lazier.
In reply to SFM:
we are lazy nowadays but i think the mojor issue is that media hype and advertising industry telling us that new is better and enticing us to embrace all that is new and shiney.
Im not saying that society is made up of mindless zombies but with he constant barage of adverts, it almost impossible not to succumb to that way of thinking.
we are lazy nowadays but i think the mojor issue is that media hype and advertising industry telling us that new is better and enticing us to embrace all that is new and shiney.
Im not saying that society is made up of mindless zombies but with he constant barage of adverts, it almost impossible not to succumb to that way of thinking.
In reply to SFM:
Nowt to do with them being cheaper then?
>
> Look at demand for new build houses over older housing stock the past few years, apparently it's substantially up. I suspect that part of it is that we, as nation, are becoming lazier and lazier.
> Look at demand for new build houses over older housing stock the past few years, apparently it's substantially up. I suspect that part of it is that we, as nation, are becoming lazier and lazier.
Nowt to do with them being cheaper then?
In reply to Tyler:
So what happens when you have a harsh regional dialect or accent and your shop assistant's first language isn't English? Sometimes actions work better than words...and in many supermarkets assistants are told to not ask but automatically put stuff into bags.
So what happens when you have a harsh regional dialect or accent and your shop assistant's first language isn't English? Sometimes actions work better than words...and in many supermarkets assistants are told to not ask but automatically put stuff into bags.
In reply to Guy Wilson:
You could look at Karl Marx's Social Theory, this deals with the issues of technology, production and capitalism. Might be a bit political, but could help from a different angle.
This link might help:
http://www.faculty.rsu.edu/~felwell/Theorists/Marx/#Printable%20Version
See about half way through the essay entitled "The Sociology of Karl Marx"
You could look at Karl Marx's Social Theory, this deals with the issues of technology, production and capitalism. Might be a bit political, but could help from a different angle.
This link might help:
http://www.faculty.rsu.edu/~felwell/Theorists/Marx/#Printable%20Version
See about half way through the essay entitled "The Sociology of Karl Marx"
In reply to brothersoulshine:
A new build near my mums costs the same and sometimes more yet they are all far smaller and inferior houses. Yes off-plans can be discounted so are cheaper.
like I said, I suspect that part of it is.....
A new build near my mums costs the same and sometimes more yet they are all far smaller and inferior houses. Yes off-plans can be discounted so are cheaper.
like I said, I suspect that part of it is.....
In reply to SFM:
you could always go for the acknoledged inetrnational sign language for 'no, i dont need a bag thax' and snatch you goods from them before they have a chance to put them in.
As a side issue, my personal 'favorite' for total stupidity is mcdonalds staff for placing you bigmac in a card board box, then a bag, then on a tray with a paper tray liner just so you can walk it 10 ft across the restaurant (if you can call them that!) unpack the whole lot and intantly throw it in the bin....why? this is the dumbest thing
you could always go for the acknoledged inetrnational sign language for 'no, i dont need a bag thax' and snatch you goods from them before they have a chance to put them in.
As a side issue, my personal 'favorite' for total stupidity is mcdonalds staff for placing you bigmac in a card board box, then a bag, then on a tray with a paper tray liner just so you can walk it 10 ft across the restaurant (if you can call them that!) unpack the whole lot and intantly throw it in the bin....why? this is the dumbest thing
In reply to Guy Wilson:
It's built into the economic model. The idea is that the whole system will stall without constant 'growth', and a Great Depression will set in. Thus we're brainwashed to constantly feel dissatisfied with what we already have, and so it all gets thrown away. What happened to all the millions of pre-carving skis and box-shaped 21-inch TVs? Mine still work fine.
> Who is to blame?
It's built into the economic model. The idea is that the whole system will stall without constant 'growth', and a Great Depression will set in. Thus we're brainwashed to constantly feel dissatisfied with what we already have, and so it all gets thrown away. What happened to all the millions of pre-carving skis and box-shaped 21-inch TVs? Mine still work fine.
In reply to SFM:
Demand for houses have gone up across the board, that's why we've had galloping house price inflation over the last few years. I'm aware there are lots of empty homes but that's a different matter entirely.
> Look at demand for new build houses over older housing stock the past few years, apparently it's substantially up. I suspect that part of it is that we, as nation, are becoming lazier and lazier.
Demand for houses have gone up across the board, that's why we've had galloping house price inflation over the last few years. I'm aware there are lots of empty homes but that's a different matter entirely.
In reply to Guy Wilson:
Componys do what is cheap and will make money. At the moment poluteing is cheap and being enviromentally responsible is expensive. This is a very robust system which will not change easily, or ever.
Componys do what is cheap and will make money. At the moment poluteing is cheap and being enviromentally responsible is expensive. This is a very robust system which will not change easily, or ever.
In reply to Hazard:
you mean battering them to a bloody pulp with a frozen pizza?
> (In reply to SFM)
> you could always go for the acknowledged international sign language for 'no, i dont need a bag thax'
> you could always go for the acknowledged international sign language for 'no, i dont need a bag thax'
you mean battering them to a bloody pulp with a frozen pizza?
In reply to Hazard:
a)If you are eating in then hey do not put your burger or whatevr in a bag, but don't let the truth get in the way of a little rant.
b) Eating at McDonalds and then complaing about environemntal sustainability is a bit like going swiming and complaining about getting wet.
> my personal 'favorite' for total stupidity is mcdonalds staff for placing you bigmac in a card board box, then a bag, then on a tray with a paper tray liner just so you can walk it 10 ft across the restaurant (if you can call them that!) unpack the whole lot and intantly throw it in the bin....why? this is the dumbest thing
a)If you are eating in then hey do not put your burger or whatevr in a bag, but don't let the truth get in the way of a little rant.
b) Eating at McDonalds and then complaing about environemntal sustainability is a bit like going swiming and complaining about getting wet.
In reply to Tyler:
really? F*ck me I never noticed. You could be onto something there....
> (In reply to SFM)
>
> [...]
>
> Demand for houses have gone up across the board, that's why we've had galloping house price inflation over the last few years.
>
> [...]
>
> Demand for houses have gone up across the board, that's why we've had galloping house price inflation over the last few years.
really? F*ck me I never noticed. You could be onto something there....
increasing number of houses is an issue, interestingly, the average number of people per household is decreasing. Meaning more fridges, more tv's more appliances and smaller sized packaged groceries, equating to even more packaging waste. Even more than the microwave meals!
In reply to Tyler:
So why is it a different matter? Are many of them in dis-repair or in need of modernisation by any chance....
> (In reply to SFM)
>
I'm aware there are lots of empty homes but that's a different matter entirely.
>
So why is it a different matter? Are many of them in dis-repair or in need of modernisation by any chance....
> you mean battering them to a bloody pulp with a frozen pizza?
is that an organic frozen pizza made with non - gm tomatoes?
In reply to Hazard: If you eat at McDonals you only have yourself to blame. C'mon!
so to blame so far......
us
our attitude
our societies attitude
our economy - we have become so developed that the people in repair or restore industry have more lucrative jobs.
it has become cheaper to replace than to repair.
Don't know about you, but the birth of mass production meant the emotional connection with products went out the window.... we dont lovingly care for the things we own to make sure they last. Its far too easy to biff it out. - i think there must still be some human nature of 'fixing and making' still about.... somewhere!
us
our attitude
our societies attitude
our economy - we have become so developed that the people in repair or restore industry have more lucrative jobs.
it has become cheaper to replace than to repair.
Don't know about you, but the birth of mass production meant the emotional connection with products went out the window.... we dont lovingly care for the things we own to make sure they last. Its far too easy to biff it out. - i think there must still be some human nature of 'fixing and making' still about.... somewhere!
In reply to SFM:
If you knew that already how come you tried to make a distinction between rising demand for new houses as if the same didn't apply to old houses. It completely undermines your original point.
> really? F*ck me I never noticed. You could be onto something there....
If you knew that already how come you tried to make a distinction between rising demand for new houses as if the same didn't apply to old houses. It completely undermines your original point.
In reply to Tyler:
i dont eat there. i just happened to be unfortunate enough to work there when i was a kid.
i dont eat there. i just happened to be unfortunate enough to work there when i was a kid.
In reply to Guy Wilson:
Average number of people in households decreasing yet builders are building more four bedroom houses than two bed as they make more on them. Now if planners stopped ALL four bed building and only allowed two bed houses and flats then there would be more available for those who need them and prices would fall in the lower starter home market bringing down all prices.
Don't let the planners know, they will lose money on their shares in house builders.
Average number of people in households decreasing yet builders are building more four bedroom houses than two bed as they make more on them. Now if planners stopped ALL four bed building and only allowed two bed houses and flats then there would be more available for those who need them and prices would fall in the lower starter home market bringing down all prices.
Don't let the planners know, they will lose money on their shares in house builders.
In reply to Hazard:
...and veganproof cheese :Op
> is that an organic frozen pizza made with non - gm tomatoes?
...and veganproof cheese :Op
so its the ££££ to blame once again!!!!!
we are so slack!¬ (not all of us.... but our society)
we are so slack!¬ (not all of us.... but our society)
In reply to Tyler:
I was making the point about the disparty in the rate of the house price rise ie why folk are not being arsed to buy a house that is perfectly liveable in but perhaps needs some updating but instead pay way over the odds for a sub-5 year old house with inferior build quality and in doing so supporting my arguement that folk in this country are getting lazier.
I was making the point about the disparty in the rate of the house price rise ie why folk are not being arsed to buy a house that is perfectly liveable in but perhaps needs some updating but instead pay way over the odds for a sub-5 year old house with inferior build quality and in doing so supporting my arguement that folk in this country are getting lazier.
In reply to SFM:
Is there a disparity? I don't want to appear to talk down to you again lest you jump down my throat again but comparing house prices is very difficult given the variables involved. Do you have links to any reports supporting your argument or are you just making generalisations? I agree that many city centre falts seem over priced (to me) but that doen't mean people are lazy iit's just that people who by thwm are buying into a particular lifestyle.
Is there a disparity? I don't want to appear to talk down to you again lest you jump down my throat again but comparing house prices is very difficult given the variables involved. Do you have links to any reports supporting your argument or are you just making generalisations? I agree that many city centre falts seem over priced (to me) but that doen't mean people are lazy iit's just that people who by thwm are buying into a particular lifestyle.
In reply to Guy Wilson:
And as a catch 22 mass production is more resource efficient (which is why they use it as less resources used = more profit).
>
> Don't know about you, but the birth of mass production meant the emotional connection with products went out the window....
> Don't know about you, but the birth of mass production meant the emotional connection with products went out the window....
And as a catch 22 mass production is more resource efficient (which is why they use it as less resources used = more profit).
In reply to SFM:
new builds are VAT free while repairs are not. Just one of those interesting approaches which slants the market.
> So why is it a different matter? Are many of them in dis-repair or in need of modernisation by any chance....
new builds are VAT free while repairs are not. Just one of those interesting approaches which slants the market.
In reply to Tyler:
yup. Admittedly it can take several attempts and a very blank look but normally works.
Only way of fixing it properly would be to tax it as per Ireland though.
> What? You just say "Don't bother putting them in a bag I'll carry them?" (or something similar), it always works for me, I really don't understand the problem.
yup. Admittedly it can take several attempts and a very blank look but normally works.
Only way of fixing it properly would be to tax it as per Ireland though.
In reply to dissonance:
So again Government policy has a hand in things? They rail about housing being empty yet continue to offer an "incentive" to buy new houses. Now if all modern house had to have a high energy efficiency then I reckon it would make sense but is it just me or is this an opportunity missed?
So again Government policy has a hand in things? They rail about housing being empty yet continue to offer an "incentive" to buy new houses. Now if all modern house had to have a high energy efficiency then I reckon it would make sense but is it just me or is this an opportunity missed?
In reply to dissonance:
Try B&Q - they now charge for carrier bags. (5p I think)
> (In reply to Tyler)
>
> [...]
>
> yup. Admittedly it can take several attempts and a very blank look but normally works.
> Only way of fixing it properly would be to tax it as per Ireland though.
>
> [...]
>
> yup. Admittedly it can take several attempts and a very blank look but normally works.
> Only way of fixing it properly would be to tax it as per Ireland though.
Try B&Q - they now charge for carrier bags. (5p I think)
In reply to Guy Wilson:
There is nothing inherently wrong with mass production and consumers buying new shiny products. However if the buying of new shiny things is to keep up with fashion (i.e. latest mobile Phone, LCD TV, new car every couple of years) then this could be considered as unnecessary buying and unnecessary production and hterefore wasteful.
The companies only continue to make new products with increasingly short lifespans because that seems to be what people are attracted to - fashion changes, and many people don't want to be seen dead with that xxx it is so last year!
To change this attitude would take a long time IF people wanted to change. When consumers don't want to change (because fashion is considered so important to many people) then I think we're stuck with the current trend.
If it becomes fashionable to not care about fashion then this should solve the problem.
I think most people are influenced by fashion to some degree, but being ruled by fashion and trends and what other people might think is what keeps the current style of economy going.
Find something more appealling to people than being fashionable and the business model will change.
There is nothing inherently wrong with mass production and consumers buying new shiny products. However if the buying of new shiny things is to keep up with fashion (i.e. latest mobile Phone, LCD TV, new car every couple of years) then this could be considered as unnecessary buying and unnecessary production and hterefore wasteful.
The companies only continue to make new products with increasingly short lifespans because that seems to be what people are attracted to - fashion changes, and many people don't want to be seen dead with that xxx it is so last year!
To change this attitude would take a long time IF people wanted to change. When consumers don't want to change (because fashion is considered so important to many people) then I think we're stuck with the current trend.
If it becomes fashionable to not care about fashion then this should solve the problem.
I think most people are influenced by fashion to some degree, but being ruled by fashion and trends and what other people might think is what keeps the current style of economy going.
Find something more appealling to people than being fashionable and the business model will change.
In reply to Route Adjuster:
nope. Companies continue to make new products with only small changes and advertise heavily to encourage changing for fashion sake since that is how they prevent market saturation.
For example the UK mobile market is not pretty much saturated so they can either abandon the uk as a target market or try to encourage unneccessarily replacements of a working product
Check most phone adverts they tend to have sod all to do with technology but more to do with how cool they are with some tech gizmo added to give people a get out clause.
> The companies only continue to make new products with increasingly short lifespans because that seems to be what people are attracted to - fashion changes, and many people don't want to be seen dead with that xxx it is so last year!
nope. Companies continue to make new products with only small changes and advertise heavily to encourage changing for fashion sake since that is how they prevent market saturation.
For example the UK mobile market is not pretty much saturated so they can either abandon the uk as a target market or try to encourage unneccessarily replacements of a working product
Check most phone adverts they tend to have sod all to do with technology but more to do with how cool they are with some tech gizmo added to give people a get out clause.
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