UKC

As much as I love climbing, I'm horrified to find that the BMC are pushing for access on environmentally sensitive craggs....such as Holwick Scar in Teesdale (North Pennines). Aren't there enough climbing venues in the UK as it is without forcing for access on craggs with sensitive and rare species hanging on? Maybe I am being cynical, but I dont really believe that all climbers will follow the guidelines, and avoid the climbs which are off-limits (especially as route descriptions are still provided for these routes in the BMC pamphlet for Holwick scar!), or follow the other access restictions (such as avoiding the scree slopes, not removing vegetation from the climbs) stringently.

I hope that any climbers climbing at Holwick Scar are sensitive to the wildlife there and follow the access guideleines to the letter, but even safer would be to not go climbing there at all, but instead use the many other craggs which are not as important for rare wildlife (such as Goldsborough for example).

In reply to Julie Black: most crags in the uk are home to at least one rare or threatened species, many are designated sssi and most climbers do respect restrictions on climbing particular routes for example the various bird bans around the country are normally very well observed(especially when those restrictions are mentioned in the guide book).

Accepting a total ban on climbing at a crag for envitonmental reasons as you suggest would set a precident allowing access to huge numbers of venues to be removed.

I think your fears misplaced.

In reply to Julie Black:
Julie, you'll find that, as a band, climbers don't give a toss as long as they can climb.

Sxx

In reply to Sarah G:

luckily climbers are not all the same - i am not part of a 'band'.


you climb with a very different group to the climbers i know.

In reply to Sarah G:


I'm glad I don't belong to that band. Who do you climb with to have experienced that attitude?

In reply to Sarah G:

You must know a lot of selfish climbers Sarah - non of my 'band' would subscribe to your view.

In reply to Richard123:

None of my "band" would either.

But it's not uncommon to find tat, bits of carpet and cigarette ends around crags. Someone must be putting it there.

In reply to Sarah G:


I'd say that is a huge generalisation on your own experience.

Climbers in the main I’ve found to be very environmentally aware; and what the implication of there actions have on the crag and surrounding areas.

There are exceptions of course, unfortunately these are the cases which get reported in the climbing press.

In reply to Julie Black and Sarah G:

Hi,

You'll find, in the main (and as in most other sports/pastimes) climbers will follow guidelines because they know if they don't, things can get tricky and access can become an issue. It's usually the minority that don't that cause problems.
The BMCs access team work alongside many other bodies to agree workable terms for the climbers AND the wildlife.

Why not contact Guy or Cath at the BMC - I am sure they will be able to fill you in on things. You can email me directly if you have any questions, although I can't guarantee I'll be able to answer them without consulting one of the Access team anyway!

Alternatively, why not come along to one of the area meetings and you'll just how much work and negotiation goes into trying to keep everyone and everything on as even a keel as possible and how passionate climbers can be about the environment. You have clearly had conflicting experiences - are you willing to be proved wrong?

In reply to Julie Black:

The access agreement was worked out with English Nature so presumably they are happy with the arrangements on Holwick SSSI. If they weren't there would ne no access.

In reply to Julie Black:

Dear Julia

I am glad that the BMC regard humans as part of the environment. Whereas Environmentalist don't, as they don't think of themselves as humans.

Norrie

In reply to TN:

See this area for your local access rep and contact details:
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/outdoor/rad/accrep.htm
(rather than going direct to Guy or Cath)

In reply to Julie Black: I had a look at the RAD note for this crag and although I don't know the site, I have a feeling you may have a valid point. The key words for me were rare alpine plants and screes - both of these are really vulnerable habitats and would suffer with trampling and disturbance. I think a lot of climbers look at the environment with a black and white perspective- either a bird is nesting or it isn't. It's much harder to protect fragile communities where there is a gradual deterioration and where this could be attributable to other causes.

In reply to all: thanks for all your coments, it's nice to see that I amy have been a bit cynical, and in fact many climbers do pay attention to wildlife and to access restrictions. Shame about the minority that dont.