UKC

OK - tell me why I shouldnt have only screwgate carabiners on my rack, other than weight...

basically, started buying a rack bit by bit, have now finished and have ended up with a number of screwgate krabs to spare - so i was thinking of replacing some of the snaplinks with the screw gates on the basis that they are more secure...

so now my problem is - what should i have them on - and if i put them on a few how do i know which bit of gear etc etc...

does anyone know what im on about?!

In reply to chembhoy:

eh!
what are spare screw gates
ive got 50 and still need more.

what would you replace?
why do you just a: not take them or b: take them as spare screws so when the situation arises youve got one handy.

i dont like muddling around with my rack becasue to end up with gear thats too specfic for the job.
if you dont want them ill have them

In reply to Rob Reglinski: cheers for the reply - replacing for example the snaplink krabs on my hexes with the screwgates par example...

obviously i'll take a few extra's on my rack - for example, do you use screw gates with your slings when using them as runners or do you just use a snap link - or do you use screwgates with hexes... or does it depend what mood your in..

I'm really just trying to decide at what point the chance of a snaplink unclipping makes me want to use a screwgate...

In reply to chembhoy:

its very rare that i am worried about the gate opening but i have had a situation where i wished the leader had used a screw gate and not a wire gate.

if you carry spare already then are you not carrying spare of spare?

all of my slings have screw on them (its the way i rack slings) but i use biners for hexs and wires etc. you are right it depends on the situation. i have used a screw on a cam but the gate would have opened otherwise.

horses for courses
Climb safe

In reply to chembhoy:
The only time I'd use a screw gate is on a belay, other than that I think a snap gate is generally more appropriate.

Screwgates only need to be used on critical connections between you and the belay imho. Some people advocate there use on slings as the extra weight will help stop the sling lifting off its placement. I personally carry 2 wire gates instead of extra screw gates as these can be placed back to back when needed or provide the option of cliping to a cam etc... this alowes me to save more weight by racking all of my cams together...

Ollie

In reply to chembhoy:

Have a scan thorough this:

http://www.psychovertical.com/?screwgatecarry

In reply to chembhoy: your mad mate.

you only need 1 screw gate per belay. so thats 2 a rack. plus you belay biner. basically snapgates (wire gates) are lighter, more dynamic in huge fall, don't frezze, don't chatter in big fall. in most situations a sanp gate ain't gonna unclip. you only need one on each bellay as a fail safe. i mean who but the sucidal/incompertante is going to unclip from their stance?

i carry 2 dmm senitels thats it. they are the lightest hMS on the market. also rember that you can tie of anchors (out of reach) on you belay biner too.

In reply to chembhoy:

Apart from weight ? well, expense, bulk and ease of use for starters. I usually only carry one or two screwgates max.

In reply to Removed User: cheers, i had seen that before...

In reply to The Great Pretender: snaplinks more dynamic in a bigger fall??? - interesting, tell me more!

In reply to chembhoy:

shhh, a faradayan slip

In reply to sutty: ooooh clues... google revealed nothing (said in a whisper)

In reply to chembhoy:

Yeah - I'd be interested to hear that one as well. Is the Great Pretender pretending to know something that he doesn't really?

In reply to The Great Pretender:
>in most situations a sanp gate ain't gonna unclip. you only need one on each bellay as a fail safe.

Isn't that the point? Many of us are happy to carry 10 grs more on a couple of krabs to have the insurance to change "most situations" into "all situations".

In reply to chembhoy:

google does not do psyocological puns.

In reply to sutty: im very confused

In reply to TobyA:

I think what he was hinting at is that snapgates bend slightly when loaded (as do screwgates a bit, actually). This would reduce the shock in the system, but compared to the dynamic effect of the rope and the belay I can't see what it would ever make an appreciable difference. Unless anyone has been told different?

In reply to TobyA: sorry that was badly phased: what i was trying to say is that in a huge wipper a wire gate will stretch and deform (we are talking huge fall0, this will render the krab useless. however, a snapgate/screw gate will fail earlier because the get is totally static, so the waekest ponit on the krab, ie the pins holding it all together will fail. very theoretical i know, but it is a ponit.

In reply to chembhoy: There are two ways of looking at s/gates.
-Going ultra lightweight you'd carry 2 each.
-However if you doing 'textbook' belays and want enough gear to deal easily with the worst case crag rescue situation you can easily get to 12+ between a pair.
Most people end up somewhere in between to the two.

Having a couple of screwgates on a hex or two isn't a drama but I wouldn't deliberately replace snaplinks if you are happy with them.

In reply to The Great Pretender:

Might be a point, but it sounds like tripe!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

LOL, tripe screwgates. now what is the modulus of elasticity of dressed tripe?

In reply to Mark Stevenson: cheers, thats the answer that i wanted... in terms of being happy with snaplinks... I am happy with them on quickdraws, but do sometimes think to put a screwgate on a long sling runner and on some hexes - but not as a rule or anything - sometimes if it isn't too much hassle, with a good stance i think "i might as well"...

In reply to The Great Pretender: If you're suggesting that the mode of failure of a particular type of krab will add any useful dynamic element to a fall arrest than I think you're living in cloud-cuckoo land. Krabs are rated over 20kN. If you take that impact force during a fall arrest you're going to be badly hurt, and if the krab fails in the process then it's going to be even more likely than before that your shattered body will then hit something quite hard, possibly quite hard enough to finish you off.

In reply to Martin W: well put - whats your view on the topic of screwgates, and why they are usually mentioned w.r.t. belays only and not on runners...

In reply to chembhoy:


I tend to agree with Mark Stevenson's post above. I've cut down to six, from double that, by leaving behind the ones I used to carry on slings. The six left are: HMS for belay device (DMM Boa), second HMS for connection to belay (DMM Boa), two lightweight HMS (DMM Sentinel) for use on belay anchors and two lightweight d-shaped (Edelrid Golden Gate) for ab safety/self-rescue and therefore seldom used.


1) Speed and ease of use - even if you don't do up a screwgate, clipping in is not quite as convenient because the rope/your finger can't slide along the nice smooth gate and that can make a difference if you're starting to pump out/fall off.
2) With a runner, you will normally expect another one further up the pitch so it only needs to be "good enough". The belay just has to hold - possibly a factor 2 fall, or close to it if the leader's runners all turn out to be cack. (But even so there's an argument that a screwgate is OTT for everything except the connection to the "power point" - and maybe even there.)
3) Weight and cost.

Some may argue that a screwgate should be used on a runner if there is a risk of the krab's gate being obstructed by the rock in a fall. I don't believe that screwgate sleeves are very strong in themselves* so there would still seem to be a risk of damage and possible failure in such a circumstance. I'd prefer to re-organise the gear and the connection to it to avoid the problem, if at all possible.

* There's no test for sleeve strength in the UIAA spec and in krabs available as both snapgate and screwgate eg the DMM TruScrew/Truclip, the cross-loaded strength is the same so the sleeve doesn't seem to add anything.

In reply to Martin W: why do youy need to carry that many? you need to learn to climb tradionally, tying anchors of with a figure of eight rather than clove hitch. i reduces the weight on your rack. you only need 1 of your anchors at each balay to be a screw gate. every thing else cna be a snap gate. this is just over zelous saftey. next thing i hear will be chem boy saying that he puts a screamer on every qd with a screw gate at each end!

i carry 2 HMS

and another HMS for my belay plate (maybe a further 1 foar a reverso)

In reply to The Great Pretender: I carry one more HMS than you (count 'em) and two further lightweight krabs for purposes which you obviously don't feel necessary (which is fine: you don't feel the need for them, I prefer to have them available - it's called choice). I don't really see how that qualifies as "over zealous safety"!

In reply to The Great Pretender: no screw gates on my quickdraws... just trying to find what level of risk is acceptable for me - at the end of the day, if a screwgate makes me feel more confident I will use it - be it over-zealous or not

I just got back from salisbury crags - did my second ever solo, and a solo descent on top of that! My heart is still pumping

In reply to Martin W: I see what you mean about a runner just having to do until the next one - one shouldnt plan to fall etc...

In reply to chembhoy:
I used to use a lot of screwgates, and then i thought 'every piece of gear i clip on a route is connected by snaplinks, they havent failed yet so why would they fail in a belay'
now i usually only take up1 or 2 screwgates for things were theres a chance that a snap gate could be pushed open.

rem

In reply to remtherockclimber: thats what im having trouble with - screwgates feel safer but I have no problems with my quickdraws!!


does anyone have an educated opinion on whether the freudiyan (sp?) slip is more likely on a short or long quickdraw??