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Rather than clog up the mini-guide site with peripheral matters. There sems to be some mis-understanding about how Slipstones first appeared in a YMC Guide.
When I was working with Graham Desroy on the 1989 Yorkshire Grit Guide the old North of England Guide was already out of print and there was some serious question as to whether a new edition was ever going to be produced and a definitive answer could not be obtained at that time. We had also been sent information on the previously unpublished Brown Beck Crag further up the valley. It was felt important to publish Brown Beck and it would have been stupid to ignore slipstones in that case. I appreciate that Stuart wilson felt aggrieved after the event but the decision was made in good faith and certainly brought that corner of the NoE to the notice of the mainstream.
Subsequently a second edition of NoE was produced but when I started work on the 1998 YG guide I was approached by Tony Marr - noted North East activist and Slipstones Pioneer and Devotee who felt that the crag had not been done justice by either the two NoE guides or our earlier YMC guide and asked if he could set the record straight by a complete re-write for the YMC. This was several years after the NoE guide had come out and once again no re-print was then planned. If NoE or North Yorks Moors want to re-stablish ownership of the crag I see no objection.
Dave
When I was working with Graham Desroy on the 1989 Yorkshire Grit Guide the old North of England Guide was already out of print and there was some serious question as to whether a new edition was ever going to be produced and a definitive answer could not be obtained at that time. We had also been sent information on the previously unpublished Brown Beck Crag further up the valley. It was felt important to publish Brown Beck and it would have been stupid to ignore slipstones in that case. I appreciate that Stuart wilson felt aggrieved after the event but the decision was made in good faith and certainly brought that corner of the NoE to the notice of the mainstream.
Subsequently a second edition of NoE was produced but when I started work on the 1998 YG guide I was approached by Tony Marr - noted North East activist and Slipstones Pioneer and Devotee who felt that the crag had not been done justice by either the two NoE guides or our earlier YMC guide and asked if he could set the record straight by a complete re-write for the YMC. This was several years after the NoE guide had come out and once again no re-print was then planned. If NoE or North Yorks Moors want to re-stablish ownership of the crag I see no objection.
Dave
In reply to Dave Musgrove:
It's grit, it's in Yorkshire, any Yorkshire grit guide would be incomplete without it. What more is there to say?
It's grit, it's in Yorkshire, any Yorkshire grit guide would be incomplete without it. What more is there to say?
In reply to Dave Musgrove:
Dave I understand what you are saying about the number of guides.But am not sure wether you are saying that when the next YG guide is published, it will not have Slipstones in it if NoE people choose to add it to their next publication?
Personaly I feel it Belongs in the Yorks Grit guide as;
a) It is in Yorkshire
b) It is Gritstone
As to wether it belongs in the North East of England guide I would say not, as North Yorkshire is not considered to be in the North East.
If anyone is considering re-writing the guide for this splendid crag they need to take a long hard look at the grades. As it stands the majority of routes get HVS 5a-6c, unless they get a tad high then they get E1.
The majority of the routes to the Left of Friday 13th could, and probaly only desrerve, a V grade. Particularly the harder problems eg Sulky little Boys, the grade HVS 6c is daft but the grade of V7 much more realistic.
Anyway I'll be there again tomorow Yorkshire Gtirstone in hand, mat on back. (if it was only in NoE guide I would then have to buy yet another guide)
Cheers Dave
Francis
Dave I understand what you are saying about the number of guides.But am not sure wether you are saying that when the next YG guide is published, it will not have Slipstones in it if NoE people choose to add it to their next publication?
Personaly I feel it Belongs in the Yorks Grit guide as;
a) It is in Yorkshire
b) It is Gritstone
As to wether it belongs in the North East of England guide I would say not, as North Yorkshire is not considered to be in the North East.
If anyone is considering re-writing the guide for this splendid crag they need to take a long hard look at the grades. As it stands the majority of routes get HVS 5a-6c, unless they get a tad high then they get E1.
The majority of the routes to the Left of Friday 13th could, and probaly only desrerve, a V grade. Particularly the harder problems eg Sulky little Boys, the grade HVS 6c is daft but the grade of V7 much more realistic.
Anyway I'll be there again tomorow Yorkshire Gtirstone in hand, mat on back. (if it was only in NoE guide I would then have to buy yet another guide)
Cheers Dave
Francis
In reply to Dave Musgrove:
Hmm, I can see that it really doesn't matter either way, but Slipstones is geologically and geographically part of the yorkshire grit guidebook.
I can see why Steve Crowe et al would want to put it in their guide to boost sales, but I don't ever remember The Cromlech being pinched by the people who wrote Clwyd Rock to promote a neglected area??
Hmm, I can see that it really doesn't matter either way, but Slipstones is geologically and geographically part of the yorkshire grit guidebook.
I can see why Steve Crowe et al would want to put it in their guide to boost sales, but I don't ever remember The Cromlech being pinched by the people who wrote Clwyd Rock to promote a neglected area??
In reply to jon:
Millstones and Burbage are in Yorkshire but there are not in the Yorkshire Grit guide
Millstones and Burbage are in Yorkshire but there are not in the Yorkshire Grit guide
In reply to Dave Musgrove:
From an outsider's viewpoint it did appear as if the YMC only took up Slipstones once it realised that the crag was a good 'un. From your post however it seems that it was due to latency in guidebook production. Not that I am advocating synchronised releases of guidebooks!
Geographically I would say that the Yorkshire Grit guide is centred around the Aire, Wharfe and Calder valleys and catchment areas. There are several other grit crags that are geographically in Yorkshire but have been ceded to other guides, Standedge is one. Craig Willas is another crag within the bounds of Yorkshire but is sufficiently far north to be part of either the NoE guide or the North East guide.
Bob
From an outsider's viewpoint it did appear as if the YMC only took up Slipstones once it realised that the crag was a good 'un. From your post however it seems that it was due to latency in guidebook production. Not that I am advocating synchronised releases of guidebooks!
Geographically I would say that the Yorkshire Grit guide is centred around the Aire, Wharfe and Calder valleys and catchment areas. There are several other grit crags that are geographically in Yorkshire but have been ceded to other guides, Standedge is one. Craig Willas is another crag within the bounds of Yorkshire but is sufficiently far north to be part of either the NoE guide or the North East guide.
Bob
In reply to Dave Musgrove:
Am i being silly or is this all a bit irrelevant? my point being a new Yorks Grit guide is surely miles away in coming? cannot imagine we'll need more than a suplement or two really for the next ten, even twenty years....ok so crags like hawkcliffe and brimham aswell as a few other little bits and bobs have had a saignificant number of routes since 98 but is it going to be worth the time, effort ansd hassle to produce a new guide when not that many people are going to be interestedin 20 foot illeminates at baildon, earl, caley et al.....
just saying like, guess the last one is pretty definative really
Am i being silly or is this all a bit irrelevant? my point being a new Yorks Grit guide is surely miles away in coming? cannot imagine we'll need more than a suplement or two really for the next ten, even twenty years....ok so crags like hawkcliffe and brimham aswell as a few other little bits and bobs have had a saignificant number of routes since 98 but is it going to be worth the time, effort ansd hassle to produce a new guide when not that many people are going to be interestedin 20 foot illeminates at baildon, earl, caley et al.....
just saying like, guess the last one is pretty definative really
In reply to FH:
er, that means over half the NE England guide will have to be removed when the NY Moors crags are added to Yorkshire Gritstone.
Except for Peak Scar and Whitestonecliffe of course, which will go into Yorkshire Limestone
>
> As to wether it belongs in the North East of England guide I would say not, as North Yorkshire is not considered to be in the North East.
> As to wether it belongs in the North East of England guide I would say not, as North Yorkshire is not considered to be in the North East.
er, that means over half the NE England guide will have to be removed when the NY Moors crags are added to Yorkshire Gritstone.
Except for Peak Scar and Whitestonecliffe of course, which will go into Yorkshire Limestone
In reply to pob:
the same could have been said about the previous (1990ish) edition. but would have been wrong then as well
> just saying like, guess the last one is pretty definative really
the same could have been said about the previous (1990ish) edition. but would have been wrong then as well
If NoE or North Yorks Moors want to re-stablish ownership of the crag I see no objection.
What are they going to buy the cliff?
I think apart from the BMC, no guidebook publisher actually owns a crag Dave.
Mick
>
What are they going to buy the cliff?
I think apart from the BMC, no guidebook publisher actually owns a crag Dave.
Mick
In reply to Dave Musgrove: I think you should have left Slipstones solely with the North of England and comparable guides for reasons I've already mentioned elsewhere. I'm glad about your last sentence that you are happy for them to have it back.
To correct some other people:
In reply to Jon and FH:
So is Crag Willas and that has remained in the NOE guide and not been taken by YGC.
No it wouldn't, it's well out of the way of the rest of Yorkshire and the YGC has plenty of fine and popular crags anyway.
In reply to Andy:
Geologically it is grit but as above so is Crag Willas (and indeed Goldsborough, Blackstone and several other places. Geographically it fits more naturally with the NOE crags such as Willas and the Cleveland Hills, while it's way north of the nearest YGC crag (Great Wolfrey??).
To correct some other people:
In reply to Jon and FH:
> It's grit, it's in Yorkshire,
> a) It is in Yorkshire
> b) It is Gritstone
> b) It is Gritstone
So is Crag Willas and that has remained in the NOE guide and not been taken by YGC.
> any Yorkshire grit guide would be incomplete without it
No it wouldn't, it's well out of the way of the rest of Yorkshire and the YGC has plenty of fine and popular crags anyway.
In reply to Andy:
> Slipstones is geologically and geographically part of the yorkshire grit guidebook
Geologically it is grit but as above so is Crag Willas (and indeed Goldsborough, Blackstone and several other places. Geographically it fits more naturally with the NOE crags such as Willas and the Cleveland Hills, while it's way north of the nearest YGC crag (Great Wolfrey??).
In reply to Fiend:
So do you think I should remove it from yorkshiregrit.com?
Talking of too many guides, I think I'll be doing a topo for the crag fairly soon. Hope you don't mind.
So do you think I should remove it from yorkshiregrit.com?
Talking of too many guides, I think I'll be doing a topo for the crag fairly soon. Hope you don't mind.
In reply to jon: Yes, or be consistent and add Crag Willas to it (there's plenty of bouldering there despite there not being an ever-so-trendy OTE article on it).
BTW I like the way that you've given adjectival grades where appropriate in the limited selection of problems you've highlighted at S********s....though it should be noted that they are graded for mattless ascents.
BTW I like the way that you've given adjectival grades where appropriate in the limited selection of problems you've highlighted at S********s....though it should be noted that they are graded for mattless ascents.
In reply to Fiend:
I'd not heard of Crag Willas till you mentioned it, though I've cycled past it. Is it any good? If it's worth a visit it'll definitely qualify for yorkshiregrit.com. And I'll be adding Scugdale to the site when I eventually get round to going there.
I always grade problems for Matt-less ascents, partly because I don't know anyone called Matt. Or did you mean "ascents without mats"?
I'd not heard of Crag Willas till you mentioned it, though I've cycled past it. Is it any good? If it's worth a visit it'll definitely qualify for yorkshiregrit.com. And I'll be adding Scugdale to the site when I eventually get round to going there.
I always grade problems for Matt-less ascents, partly because I don't know anyone called Matt. Or did you mean "ascents without mats"?
In reply to Dave Musgrove:
I don't think the problem is the number of guides, just the fact that none of them seem to correlate with each other!
If you compare the North of England guide, the Yorks grit guide, the smart boys north east england guide, the on the edge article, then there are so many differences in names, descriptions, lines and grades it is hard to work out what is what! (and yes i know that's not the point and should just climb it but...)
I don't really know which guide it should go in (preferably the new one with Filey and the north york moors bridestones!), but I think the grading system in the yorkshire bouldering guide works well, with a V and uk tech grade. I don't think the uk adj system works very well for Slipstones, because you get too many pointless grades, except maybe for that tall buttress near the left end (just like in the YGB guide you get letter grades for eg psycho, adrenaline rush at Caley).
kim.
ps has anyone done layby arete? is it really as nails as i think it is? any beta?!
I don't think the problem is the number of guides, just the fact that none of them seem to correlate with each other!
If you compare the North of England guide, the Yorks grit guide, the smart boys north east england guide, the on the edge article, then there are so many differences in names, descriptions, lines and grades it is hard to work out what is what! (and yes i know that's not the point and should just climb it but...)
I don't really know which guide it should go in (preferably the new one with Filey and the north york moors bridestones!), but I think the grading system in the yorkshire bouldering guide works well, with a V and uk tech grade. I don't think the uk adj system works very well for Slipstones, because you get too many pointless grades, except maybe for that tall buttress near the left end (just like in the YGB guide you get letter grades for eg psycho, adrenaline rush at Caley).
kim.
ps has anyone done layby arete? is it really as nails as i think it is? any beta?!
In reply to jon:
*Sigh* get up there and explore, youth. The industrial ruins are very good at least. Oh and subract one "t" from my previous post eh.
In reply to Kim:
The crag definitely needs adjectival grades for a lot of the routes - anything 6m and over really. Try throwing yourself off, say, the final crux of Steve's Wall, on an matless on-sight, and see whether it feels more like E1 5b or just 5b bouldering. As for the rest, anything that's not serious to solo, a UK tech grade will be fine...
> I'd not heard of Crag Willas till you mentioned it, though I've cycled past it. Is it any good?
*Sigh* get up there and explore, youth. The industrial ruins are very good at least. Oh and subract one "t" from my previous post eh.
In reply to Kim:
> I don't think the uk adj system works very well for Slipstones, because you get too many pointless grades, except maybe for that tall buttress near the left end...
The crag definitely needs adjectival grades for a lot of the routes - anything 6m and over really. Try throwing yourself off, say, the final crux of Steve's Wall, on an matless on-sight, and see whether it feels more like E1 5b or just 5b bouldering. As for the rest, anything that's not serious to solo, a UK tech grade will be fine...
In reply to Kim:
Free Mini Guide to Slipstones complete with Adjectival British technical and Vermin Vs but no Yorkshire Ps!
(extract from the forthcoming NE England Guide)
Lay-by Buttress
Identified by a thin flake crack up its centre.
160. Hand Traverse 6m D *
Start low at the break, at the left end of the buttress. Follow the crack line right to finish just left of the blunt arête.
Geoff Milburn, Peter Martin Oct 1960
161. Rock Over 3m VS 4c
One metre left of the arête. About two and a half moves gets you up this short problem.
Steve Crowe 1995.
162. Lay-by Arête 5m E2 6c (V7) ***
Climb the blunt arête starting on its right side and finishing on its left.
Paul lngham 1985 lngham displays his mastery of levitation.
163. Lay-by Arête Direct 5m E3 7a (V9) ***
Climb the blunt arête on its right side throughout.
Ian Cummins 2001
164. Lay-by 5m HVS 6a (V3) **
Take the thin flake crack.
Alan Taylor [solo] July 1976 Taylor produces the hardest problem on the crag at that time.
165. Little Baldy 5m HVS 6c (V5)
A desperately thin eliminate which climbs direct to the bullet scar on Rock On Left-Hand via minuscule holds. Resist any temptation to cheat by using the flake of Lay-by.
Ian ‘Steel Fingers’ Cummins 1985.
166. Rock On Left-hand Variation 4m HVS 5c (V2) *
Reach the slot in the wall right of Lay-by. Hand traverse the slot leftwards until it is possible to gain the bullet scar and exit.
Paul lngham 15th March 1981
167. Rock On 4m HVS 5c (V2) *
Gain the slot in the wall right of Lay-by then continue directly upwards.
Paul lngham 5th October 1980
168. Rock Off 4m HVS 5b (V1)
The vague arête right of Rock On.
Paul lngham 5th October 1980
169. All Off 3m HVS 5a
The short wall right of Rock Off can be climbed using a small flake.
Paul lngham 5th October 1980
The Middle Tier - Steptoe and Son
Two large boulders above make up the middle buttress with some good problems. The left boulder with the capstone is The Son, the right boulder is Steptoe.
186. Work Out 7m 5b (V2)
In line with but to the left and below The Son is a good pumpy traverse along the lip of a long low and slightly overhanging boulder.
The Son
187. Son of a Bitch 7m HVS 5c (V2)
A left to right hand traverse of the left boulder. Start by stepping off blocks below the left arête. Awkward moves lead around the arête then continue across the wall, passing under the capstone to finish at the top of Curving Crack.
Steve Crowe 26 March 1995
188. Super Fury Animal 3m (V13)
Essentially a big dyno from a low side pull and a small crimp, to the top of the boulder. Start sitting in the rift to the left of the capping stone.
Steve Dunning Autumn 2001
189. Sidewinder 3m (V5)
The wall below the capstone can also be climbed on very small but positive edges from a traditional standing start. Finish pulling over the capstone above.
SteveCrowe 2002
190. Exocet 3m (V11)
The wall left of the curving crack from a sitting start. Powerful undercuts on the edge of the overlap may lead via a dynamic move off a poor sloper to the top. Moving left on to Sidewinder is only V9.
Steve Dunning winter 2001/2002
191. Stipule 3m (V9)
The wall just left of the curving crack from a sitting start. Powerful undercuts on the edge of the overlap, cross over to good horizontal hold and throw to the top.
Steve Dunning winter 2001/2002
The left edge of the curving crack also makes for a good 5b boulder problem from a sitting start.
192. Curving Crack 3m VS 4c
Climb the awkward overhanging crack at the right end of the boulder.
Geoff Milburn, Peter Martin Oct 1960
Free Mini Guide to Slipstones complete with Adjectival British technical and Vermin Vs but no Yorkshire Ps!
(extract from the forthcoming NE England Guide)
Lay-by Buttress
Identified by a thin flake crack up its centre.
160. Hand Traverse 6m D *
Start low at the break, at the left end of the buttress. Follow the crack line right to finish just left of the blunt arête.
Geoff Milburn, Peter Martin Oct 1960
161. Rock Over 3m VS 4c
One metre left of the arête. About two and a half moves gets you up this short problem.
Steve Crowe 1995.
162. Lay-by Arête 5m E2 6c (V7) ***
Climb the blunt arête starting on its right side and finishing on its left.
Paul lngham 1985 lngham displays his mastery of levitation.
163. Lay-by Arête Direct 5m E3 7a (V9) ***
Climb the blunt arête on its right side throughout.
Ian Cummins 2001
164. Lay-by 5m HVS 6a (V3) **
Take the thin flake crack.
Alan Taylor [solo] July 1976 Taylor produces the hardest problem on the crag at that time.
165. Little Baldy 5m HVS 6c (V5)
A desperately thin eliminate which climbs direct to the bullet scar on Rock On Left-Hand via minuscule holds. Resist any temptation to cheat by using the flake of Lay-by.
Ian ‘Steel Fingers’ Cummins 1985.
166. Rock On Left-hand Variation 4m HVS 5c (V2) *
Reach the slot in the wall right of Lay-by. Hand traverse the slot leftwards until it is possible to gain the bullet scar and exit.
Paul lngham 15th March 1981
167. Rock On 4m HVS 5c (V2) *
Gain the slot in the wall right of Lay-by then continue directly upwards.
Paul lngham 5th October 1980
168. Rock Off 4m HVS 5b (V1)
The vague arête right of Rock On.
Paul lngham 5th October 1980
169. All Off 3m HVS 5a
The short wall right of Rock Off can be climbed using a small flake.
Paul lngham 5th October 1980
The Middle Tier - Steptoe and Son
Two large boulders above make up the middle buttress with some good problems. The left boulder with the capstone is The Son, the right boulder is Steptoe.
186. Work Out 7m 5b (V2)
In line with but to the left and below The Son is a good pumpy traverse along the lip of a long low and slightly overhanging boulder.
The Son
187. Son of a Bitch 7m HVS 5c (V2)
A left to right hand traverse of the left boulder. Start by stepping off blocks below the left arête. Awkward moves lead around the arête then continue across the wall, passing under the capstone to finish at the top of Curving Crack.
Steve Crowe 26 March 1995
188. Super Fury Animal 3m (V13)
Essentially a big dyno from a low side pull and a small crimp, to the top of the boulder. Start sitting in the rift to the left of the capping stone.
Steve Dunning Autumn 2001
189. Sidewinder 3m (V5)
The wall below the capstone can also be climbed on very small but positive edges from a traditional standing start. Finish pulling over the capstone above.
SteveCrowe 2002
190. Exocet 3m (V11)
The wall left of the curving crack from a sitting start. Powerful undercuts on the edge of the overlap may lead via a dynamic move off a poor sloper to the top. Moving left on to Sidewinder is only V9.
Steve Dunning winter 2001/2002
191. Stipule 3m (V9)
The wall just left of the curving crack from a sitting start. Powerful undercuts on the edge of the overlap, cross over to good horizontal hold and throw to the top.
Steve Dunning winter 2001/2002
The left edge of the curving crack also makes for a good 5b boulder problem from a sitting start.
192. Curving Crack 3m VS 4c
Climb the awkward overhanging crack at the right end of the boulder.
Geoff Milburn, Peter Martin Oct 1960
In reply to Bob:
So what about Guiscliffe, Brimham, Sypeland, Upper & Lower Huller Stones, Eavestones, Thruscross, Etc Etc That LIKE Slipstones are all in the Nidderdale Area of Outstanding natural beauty. Do we give these to the NoE guide book writers?
As for Budge saying that Burbage is in Yorkshire, fine but then surley you would have to ignore the Peak district and have Derbyshire Gritstone!
> (In reply to Dave Musgrove)
>
> Geographically I would say that the Yorkshire Grit guide is centred around the Aire, Wharfe and Calder valleys and catchment areas.
> Geographically I would say that the Yorkshire Grit guide is centred around the Aire, Wharfe and Calder valleys and catchment areas.
So what about Guiscliffe, Brimham, Sypeland, Upper & Lower Huller Stones, Eavestones, Thruscross, Etc Etc That LIKE Slipstones are all in the Nidderdale Area of Outstanding natural beauty. Do we give these to the NoE guide book writers?
As for Budge saying that Burbage is in Yorkshire, fine but then surley you would have to ignore the Peak district and have Derbyshire Gritstone!
In reply to FH: Also Brandrith and Great Wolfrey; has ANYONE ever climbed here?
In reply to Chris Fryer:
Brandrith, yes nice little crag. Never been to wolfrey or Cat crag.
Anyway, surley YG is a pennine based book, Slipstones being the most Northerley grit crag, I belive the other areas mentioned in this thread are N.York Moors crags with the vale of york between them and the pennines.
Brandrith, yes nice little crag. Never been to wolfrey or Cat crag.
Anyway, surley YG is a pennine based book, Slipstones being the most Northerley grit crag, I belive the other areas mentioned in this thread are N.York Moors crags with the vale of york between them and the pennines.
In reply to FH:
Sorry, forgot about those, after all Nidderdale is hardly centre of the universe is it?
Actually there are several grit crags further north on the pennine chain than Slipstones: Craig Willas and Goldborough Carr are two that spring to mind. The NYM crags (WhitestoneCliffe and Peak Scar excepted) are sandstone though in some cases are grit like. The thing is that Slipstones is definitely over the watershed from the Nidd, Wharfe, Aire etc and is better aligned with the crags around the Ure, Swale and Tees.
Bob
Sorry, forgot about those, after all Nidderdale is hardly centre of the universe is it?
Actually there are several grit crags further north on the pennine chain than Slipstones: Craig Willas and Goldborough Carr are two that spring to mind. The NYM crags (WhitestoneCliffe and Peak Scar excepted) are sandstone though in some cases are grit like. The thing is that Slipstones is definitely over the watershed from the Nidd, Wharfe, Aire etc and is better aligned with the crags around the Ure, Swale and Tees.
Bob
In reply to Bob:
It's a very pleasant place to live, thankyou.
Another point to question is;
Will ROCKFAX be publishing a miniguide for Slipstones?
If so do we need another giving yet more publicity to what is a bit of a hidden gem, just so Alan James can go to the Seychelles for his jollies?
> (In reply to FH)
>
> Sorry, forgot about those, after all Nidderdale is hardly centre of the universe is it?
>
>
> Sorry, forgot about those, after all Nidderdale is hardly centre of the universe is it?
>
It's a very pleasant place to live, thankyou.
Another point to question is;
Will ROCKFAX be publishing a miniguide for Slipstones?
If so do we need another giving yet more publicity to what is a bit of a hidden gem, just so Alan James can go to the Seychelles for his jollies?
In reply to Fiend:
Yeah, it must be, what, a good 5-10 miles north of Sypeland - that's quite a distance!
So Goldsborough should go in the yorkshire grit guide as well - fair enough!
>
> Geologically it is grit but as above so is Crag Willas (and indeed Goldsborough, Blackstone and several other places. Geographically it fits more naturally with the NOE crags such as Willas and the Cleveland Hills, while it's way north of the nearest YGC crag (Great Wolfrey??).
> Geologically it is grit but as above so is Crag Willas (and indeed Goldsborough, Blackstone and several other places. Geographically it fits more naturally with the NOE crags such as Willas and the Cleveland Hills, while it's way north of the nearest YGC crag (Great Wolfrey??).
Yeah, it must be, what, a good 5-10 miles north of Sypeland - that's quite a distance!
So Goldsborough should go in the yorkshire grit guide as well - fair enough!
In reply to Steve Crowe:
I'm not being negative, but why bother with the adjectival grades for most of those problems?
Lay-by HVS? It's a V3 boulder problem - the same for all the problems on those buttresses.
I'm not being negative, but why bother with the adjectival grades for most of those problems?
Lay-by HVS? It's a V3 boulder problem - the same for all the problems on those buttresses.
In reply to Fiend:
Bless - it must be so difficult people asking for innocent advice about crags they've not been too.
> *Sigh* get up there and explore, youth. The industrial ruins are very good at least.
Bless - it must be so difficult people asking for innocent advice about crags they've not been too.
In reply to Dave Musgrove: does it really matter which guide/s it appears in? i suggest not.
However i would suggest that slipstones would probably be best in a NOE guide, since traditionally (i belive) i gets frequented more by north east climbers than by true yorkshire grit climbers.
However i would suggest that slipstones would probably be best in a NOE guide, since traditionally (i belive) i gets frequented more by north east climbers than by true yorkshire grit climbers.
In reply to daveP:
How do you tell them apart??
How do you tell them apart??
In reply to Andy Robinson: north east climbers tend to suffix sentences with "our pet like".
Yorkshire climbers are easily identifiable - they're the ones being bitter about the peak district.
Only kidding!!!
Yorkshire climbers are easily identifiable - they're the ones being bitter about the peak district.
Only kidding!!!
In reply to daveP:
I hope everyone referrimng to the NoE guide really means the rather good NE England guide rather than the appalling tome by Stuart Wilson, which only includes 3 Cleveland crags and misgrades huge numbers of lower grade routes by as much as 2 grades.
I hope everyone referrimng to the NoE guide really means the rather good NE England guide rather than the appalling tome by Stuart Wilson, which only includes 3 Cleveland crags and misgrades huge numbers of lower grade routes by as much as 2 grades.
In reply to Andy Robinson:
If anything grit and in Yorkshire is going in, will than include Wharncliffe and Agden Rocher?
If anything grit and in Yorkshire is going in, will than include Wharncliffe and Agden Rocher?
In reply to Budge:
Millstone and Burbage are also in the Peak District, and only in Yorkshire by a few 100 metres. If you're going to be picky, why not debate about putting Stanage in the Yorkshire guide too, since the border runs along the length of a lot of Stanage?
You'd also lose Higgar, Mother Cap, Owler Tor, Secret Garden, Carl Wark, Rivelin, Bell Hagg, Wharncliff, Agden and others from the Peak guides. Hmmm.
Millstone and Burbage are also in the Peak District, and only in Yorkshire by a few 100 metres. If you're going to be picky, why not debate about putting Stanage in the Yorkshire guide too, since the border runs along the length of a lot of Stanage?
You'd also lose Higgar, Mother Cap, Owler Tor, Secret Garden, Carl Wark, Rivelin, Bell Hagg, Wharncliff, Agden and others from the Peak guides. Hmmm.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
No, because they're Peak trash. Now Thorn Crag and Craig y Longridge on the other hand...
No, because they're Peak trash. Now Thorn Crag and Craig y Longridge on the other hand...
In reply to Simon Caldwell: Do not diss the NOE guide. I'm not happy with the coverage of the Cleveland area but aside from that and a general soft-touch to the grading, I have found it a diverse, useful and very inspiring guide.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Pah - you can keep that shite!
Anyway, IIRC, Wharncliffe isn't grit - I think it's a sandstone unit within the Coal Measures.
Pah - you can keep that shite!
Anyway, IIRC, Wharncliffe isn't grit - I think it's a sandstone unit within the Coal Measures.
In reply to jon:
Here we go the Cumbrian / welsh ex pat sticks his oar in with two LANCASHIRE crags!........Next we'll have Woodwell in Yorkshire Limestone!
Here we go the Cumbrian / welsh ex pat sticks his oar in with two LANCASHIRE crags!........Next we'll have Woodwell in Yorkshire Limestone!
In reply to Steve Crowe: Regarding that sample, please don't continue the misleading and somewhat risible standard of giving sub-5m boulder problems adjectival grades. At S********s there are some micro-routes that clearly desever adj. grades and some boulder problems that clearly don't - it's quite okay to have a mixture of routes and problems at a crag. Please be sensible about this and make a judgement based on the length (and seriousness) of the routes/problems.
In reply to FH:
I got bored 'cos I don't live there anymore.
Slipstones, schmipstones, that's what I say......
I got bored 'cos I don't live there anymore.
Slipstones, schmipstones, that's what I say......
In reply to Andy Robinson:
I thought gritstone was just a type of course-grained sandstone, so in fact they're the same thing but climbers like to draw a distinction in order to justify failure on certain routes.
Or am I wrong as per ushual?
I thought gritstone was just a type of course-grained sandstone, so in fact they're the same thing but climbers like to draw a distinction in order to justify failure on certain routes.
Or am I wrong as per ushual?
In reply to Fiend:
In the Scugdale and Wainstones sections there are (several) Mods given VDiff, Diffs given HS, Severes given VS, and even a Severe given HVS. Which encourages leaders to add a grade or two onto the published grades, which is fine until a severe leader tries an HVS that is graded correctly.
I guess the book's OK for those areas where it's the only guide available, for anywhere else it's a waste of time. IMHO of course.
In the Scugdale and Wainstones sections there are (several) Mods given VDiff, Diffs given HS, Severes given VS, and even a Severe given HVS. Which encourages leaders to add a grade or two onto the published grades, which is fine until a severe leader tries an HVS that is graded correctly.
I guess the book's OK for those areas where it's the only guide available, for anywhere else it's a waste of time. IMHO of course.
In reply to FH:
Oh dear, presumably that means that when he puts me right I won't understand the answer!
Oh dear, presumably that means that when he puts me right I won't understand the answer!
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
There are also E3's given HVS! I'm sure Steve Crowe's forthcoming guide will correct a lot of these anomalies, he has canvessed widely.
> In the Scugdale and Wainstones sections there are (several) Mods given VDiff, Diffs given HS, Severes given VS, and even a Severe given HVS......
There are also E3's given HVS! I'm sure Steve Crowe's forthcoming guide will correct a lot of these anomalies, he has canvessed widely.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Doh, I think it may be irrelevant anyway, as Wharncliffe may be an outlier of the Millstone Grit - I'd need to check a map........
Doh, I think it may be irrelevant anyway, as Wharncliffe may be an outlier of the Millstone Grit - I'd need to check a map........
In reply to Andy Robinson:
Exactly, it does seem a bit pointless. They don't give you any extra information about the problem, especially with the V grades there to tell you, for example, that lay-by arete (V7) is "harder" 6c than little baldy (V5). Giving them E2 and HVS respectively seems pretty arbitrary. Especially as I assume the new problems will just get V's - unless Super furry animal will be getting something like E5 7b or whatever.
By all means give adjectival grades where they're needed, but you don't need to give them to everything just because some things warrant them.
cheers,
kim.
> (In reply to Steve Crowe)
> I'm not being negative, but why bother with the adjectival grades for most of those problems?
> Lay-by HVS? It's a V3 boulder problem - the same for all the problems on those buttresses.
> I'm not being negative, but why bother with the adjectival grades for most of those problems?
> Lay-by HVS? It's a V3 boulder problem - the same for all the problems on those buttresses.
Exactly, it does seem a bit pointless. They don't give you any extra information about the problem, especially with the V grades there to tell you, for example, that lay-by arete (V7) is "harder" 6c than little baldy (V5). Giving them E2 and HVS respectively seems pretty arbitrary. Especially as I assume the new problems will just get V's - unless Super furry animal will be getting something like E5 7b or whatever.
By all means give adjectival grades where they're needed, but you don't need to give them to everything just because some things warrant them.
cheers,
kim.
In reply to Dave Musgrove:
Dave...
By "ownership" you mean "coverage" surely, as not one of the guidebook publishers who cover/include Slipstones in their guidebooks actually "own" the crag, or the historical information (names and first ascent information) that are included in their guidebooks.
Mick
> If NoE or North Yorks Moors want to re-stablish ownership of the crag I see no objection.
Dave...
By "ownership" you mean "coverage" surely, as not one of the guidebook publishers who cover/include Slipstones in their guidebooks actually "own" the crag, or the historical information (names and first ascent information) that are included in their guidebooks.
Mick
In reply to jon:
I apologise in advance for the ridiculous inter-countyism, but:
Keep your filthy f*ckin' tyke hands off Thorn Crag!
You can keep Longridge though, its nowt special.
Oh and FH, don't even mention Woodwell and Yorkshire in the same sentence...
P.S. Great pics of Thorn on your website Jon, if I haven't already said.
I apologise in advance for the ridiculous inter-countyism, but:
Keep your filthy f*ckin' tyke hands off Thorn Crag!
You can keep Longridge though, its nowt special.
Oh and FH, don't even mention Woodwell and Yorkshire in the same sentence...
P.S. Great pics of Thorn on your website Jon, if I haven't already said.
In reply to Fiend:
I do understand your point but the problem as I see it is if I have to draw a line (delete adjectival grades) then although many will be obvious what about the grey area, a V3 to you may well feel more like E2 6a to someone else?
I do understand your point but the problem as I see it is if I have to draw a line (delete adjectival grades) then although many will be obvious what about the grey area, a V3 to you may well feel more like E2 6a to someone else?
In reply to Steve Crowe: Actually I tend to work the other way, some micro-routes that people are now treating as boulder problems after their multi-matted ascents (e.g. NTBTA @ Stanage), I still regard as worthy of an adjectival grade.
But for that sort of system to be credible, it needs the line to be drawn clearly as you can. In a previous thread, someone suggested 6m as the minimum for an adjectivally rated route - or occasionally less if it is distinctly serious (e.g. Hanging Groove @ Caley). Perhaps that would be a good starting point?? It shouldn't be hard to judge whether a problem is short enough to boulder and likely to be ascended that way, or long enough to lead/solo.
But for that sort of system to be credible, it needs the line to be drawn clearly as you can. In a previous thread, someone suggested 6m as the minimum for an adjectivally rated route - or occasionally less if it is distinctly serious (e.g. Hanging Groove @ Caley). Perhaps that would be a good starting point?? It shouldn't be hard to judge whether a problem is short enough to boulder and likely to be ascended that way, or long enough to lead/solo.
In reply to Fiend:
You might not mind a ground fall from 6m but I'd rather not if it's all the same to you!
It's academic to me cos I don't climb at the level of difficulty where V gardes start, but I don't see what's wrong with just putting both grades in, that way everyone's got something to argue about.
> But for that sort of system to be credible, it needs the line to be drawn clearly as you can. In a previous thread, someone suggested 6m as the minimum for an adjectivally rated route - or occasionally less if it is distinctly serious (e.g. Hanging Groove @ Caley). Perhaps that would be a good starting point??
You might not mind a ground fall from 6m but I'd rather not if it's all the same to you!
It's academic to me cos I don't climb at the level of difficulty where V gardes start, but I don't see what's wrong with just putting both grades in, that way everyone's got something to argue about.
In reply to Kim:
The best way I found to do lay by arete was to put a crafty heel hook where you get the sidepull for your right hand. It is a little tricky to get it on initially and it doesn't feel to good but trust it, it does work. Hope this helps Adam. Or and there are two finishes a direct which goes of the top crimp to the arete or you go left into the break for the direct though friction needs to be tip top, Adam.
The best way I found to do lay by arete was to put a crafty heel hook where you get the sidepull for your right hand. It is a little tricky to get it on initially and it doesn't feel to good but trust it, it does work. Hope this helps Adam. Or and there are two finishes a direct which goes of the top crimp to the arete or you go left into the break for the direct though friction needs to be tip top, Adam.
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