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john redhead answers more questions

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Removed User 05 Jul 2002
i put these new answers on the end of the other thread last night, but on reflection im starting a new thread because personally i find long threads a bit tiresome to keep checking.

from john redhead (in reply to simon cox):

>Hi Simon,

thanks for the email that I read with interest...most of which I totally agree with.

Painting is a very small part of my work as an image maker, and for the past five years hardly any 'visual' images have come from my studio.


This may be a little due to the fact that I have a very active and questioning five year old who has a greater priority than my work at the moment.

I work with multi-media...that is, words images and sounds and performance. I do not show in galleries, where, as you rightly state the energy is static and staid...of the establishment and the business of art. I have been concerned with sonic painting...that is, the 'capturing' of sounds, the cleaning up of the sound shapes on computer, creating a palette of sounds...and then the painting, or composition. I use only elemental sounds, and sounds from the everyday (depending on the theme) that I find accoustically and texturally interesting. I call this way of working 'The Weather Station'.

The CD soundscape that comes with the next book, Soft Explosive, Hard Embrace was created in this way. If you would like more info on how this piece 'tickled its way' into existence I would be quite happy to send it. It might explain the methods of my work more than me spouting around in circles!

But I have a few 'ground rules' I have no time for abstract
concepts which I consider to further alienate a people from the world and its 'otherness'. Concepts stand apart from the world. They are clean and ordered manifestations of the mind, which stands apart from the continual process of real events. Such mind games create false values...and I think
its 'knowledge base' encourages those who adopt the 'culture' (cultured) and those who are a little confused...alienated...and quite rightly, alienated
by that which is not of the world! Endless discussions ensue about what the artist is trying to say...which is irrelevant to the task of understanding what it is to live in this society and one's place in a community.

My work tells you nothing about me! My work is not about me! I don't need that kind of catharsis. I find such work offensive and crass. Neither does my work tell me anything about myself! I don't enter the language of art to seek such banalities! (The galleries are full of this crap).

Like wise, my attitude to climbing...of not entering the 'field of savagery', with a nuerotic need to fulfill a worthless task...like just getting to the top of a route, even though it was often the case and satisfied me at a much more 'baser'level.

Of course there is enjoyment in climbing...but for me it is a much smaller ingredient to the overall picture...one that is not addictive and one that is nourishing to the 'greater' part of the human condition...ie. not just of flesh and blood, but to where we are at beyond our heads!

It seems Simon that you relate everything to yourself, ie, what a painting does for you, whether you like it or not...or what a climb can bring to an understanding of your life. Am I right? One can read all sorts of nonsense
in this approach and perhaps read more than actually exists! Can you not see how this can lead to confusion and an inability to really understand what it is we actually see? UNLESS YOU TRULY UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE, WHAT YOU ARE
DOING IS LITTLE MORE THAN A GAME. The game's rules will keep changing on whether you burnt the toast that morning or whether you've had three pints and a mars bar or whether you are too cold to think or too hot to consider!

This is all of the mind...a mess! Everything becomes a free for all and everyone has their say regardless of where they come from. Of course everyone has a right at a considered opinion...but unless there is a pause to consider and connect the exercise is futile and alarmingly selfish. Such
selfishness is paramount in our society and breeds and beckons more trash in which to consume...! People consume climbs and they rabidly consume art...they will never be satisfied because what they are seeking... doesn't exist!

It's is all a journey Simon, and I think it our duty to take it seriously by having a laugh now and again!



Removed User 05 Jul 2002
simon cox (in reply to john redhead):

>In reply to Removed User:

"I have a very active and questioning five year old who has a greater priority than my work at the moment" - good for you, I have three kids 5 8 and 10 and whilst I love them desperately, I don't give them enough time; mind you I have not had the guts to say no to Corporate slavery. However, I am taking a voluntary redundancy option from IBM to join the Co-operative Group (assuming I pass the medical tomorrow!) - I feel more comfortable with their values but in reality I still won't have control over the majority of my daily life energy.

Regarding your latest artistic adventure I am very interested; discovering "new" poetic moments is one of life's treats. One of my climbing mates introduced me to poetry, stuff like "An Irish Airman Forsees His Death" by Yeats. I am sure you have read it and somehow I think you like it -
A lonely impulse of delight
Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
The years to come seemed waste of breath,
A waste of breath the years behind
In balance with this life, this death.

Also music, say Richard Strauss's Four Last Songs, September is truly amazing.

I have no time for world order, I think I could relate to Buddism: as I think it is about the Hear and Now; but I don't read that much; I loved "Veronika Decides to Die" by Coehlo - I will send you a copy in exchange for your CD if you don't have it.

It depresses me that the human race is f*cking up the world - I would be into direct action if I thought it would make a difference but capitalism, along with extreme religion are mega trends which great people like Mandela won't change. Make the most of it whilst it lasts...

"My work tells you nothing about me!" Really? this disappoints me in some way, don't you need to believe truly in what you are doing to produce great art? don't tell me you are just doing it for a few quid!

Climbing other than "for the moment" is a social centre, something we can easliy share - I mean look at Rock Talk!!

Most of my friends are climbers; do you fancy a route or two on Gogarth?? I have time on my hands over the next three weeks....

"It seems Simon that you relate everything to yourself" Yes and No; I am a selfish bastard; but I like/ need other people and am pretty non-judgemental; I know that my life is just a few grains of sand; and that I am here for two reasons: to procreate and have fun.

UNLESS YOU TRULY UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE, WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS LITTLE MORE THAN A GAME - jesus, tell me that there is a plot afterall!!

There was some seriousness in my point that we are here to procreate and have fun... we are genetically engineered to do the first but other than that don't we play a game? where, interestingly, we judge our own performances. You look back and score yourself, did I waste time or did I make my moments count.

I caveat the above with my belief that "what will survive of us is love" - thats the ripple I want to leave in the pond...

Cheers,





john cox:

>In reply to Removed UserSimon Cox:

"what will survive of us is love"

Almost true.

This is one of the best threads I've seen, although it would be better if it lacked those who are not respecting and trying to understand what the others are saying.

Jude, John R and others (DaveH and Simon Cox, for example) thanks for making the effort.

JonC, for example, you are passionately involved in climbing. You have the chance to talk to someone who could virtually onsight The Bells in 1980 (81?). The equivalent of talking to, let us say, Pele or Maradona. And yet you complain that the experience 'is of no relevance to me or my climbing'. Bizarrely, you seem to intend this remark to tell us something about JR rather than about you.

I was interested by JR's explanation of his remark that the goal of climbing is stillborn. When I read it this made perfect sense to me, but a slightly different one. Even the most creative act in climbing, new routing, depends upon what is there. The route is already there, in the holds. You simply do it. I always like the contintental expression, to 'open' a route. Like a parcel. Quite an accurate image, much better than the English 'put up'.


Removed User 05 Jul 2002
john redhead:

><Hi Jude, here are my replies to the two initial threads...


by - Jon Greengrass:
In reply to Removed User:
Q. Mr Redhead do you think you are a celebrity? if so how do you
feel about
being one and being interviewed by a much bigger one?
:-P

Why does the guy need to be interviewed anyway? Can't he just
log on and
have fun?

now the serious question don't know much about the guy other
than he's a
climber and artist

Q. Have you ever painted your body to improve friction?



Answer. If I am a celebrity then I have taken a few wrong turns!
I have
never sought fame or notoriety. I have always found such things
quite
bizarre. It is the nature of this society to seek out characters
and heroes
and in some way 'set them up' whether they like it or not into
the public
arena...Set up I won't be, I'll always let you down! When I put
on shows in
the street, the paintings are always 'painted by my friend' to
avoid that
kind of personal dialogue...because it doesn't matter who
painted them, or
who composed the sounds or who wrote the words, because in that
context such
information would get in the way of what was being said and
conveyed in the
performance. It is like giving a painting a price...totally
irrelevant in
the light of its 'true value' in human terms. So, pretty no, I
don't need
that!

Jude is a fine woman in her own right and it's not for me to say
whether she
is a celebrity or not or whether she needs to be one or not. I
don't relate
to her in that way.

I don't need to be interviewed! If I have been drawn into
communicating in
this way, I will take the opportunity of engaging, because that
is part of
my work. Logging on and having 'fun' is not my idea of 'fun'!
The questions
are put to me by Jude, and Jude sends back my responses. I have
no time nor
energy to indulge in idle chat! I work 24/7 with my multi-media
work,
designing and building, fathering...gathering wood...being! And
it has
always been that way, even more so when I was doing the serious
climbing as
well!




by - BrianT:

In reply to Removed User:
How much oil could a gumboil boil if a gumboil could boil oil?

Assuming you HAVE a TV, what do you like to watch? Big Brother
or are you a
Newsnight man. Or do you listen to Late Junction on R3?

Did you enjoy Settle?

Will you be watching the world cup final?

Do you drink alcohol?


Answer.


I don't have a TV. I can't understand how people find the time
to watch it!
I would find a TV a very big intrusion in my house. I have three
woodburners
instead...and keep flicking through the channels of my
imagination. I think
the TV is a wet nurse that creates cripples...and if you hang
out with a
cripple you start to limp! I think that says a lot about our
society.

Settle was a strange incursion. I went there with my girl friend
at the time
who had taken a year out of college in Bangor...to breathe in a
fresh space
and to paint four particular paintings. We moved into what was
The Pig Yard
Museum, in Castleburgh Lane. We were surrounded by archiological
artifacts
that had been brought out from the caves in The Dales. I painted
the four
paintings in six months surrounded by pagan, ritual ideology! We
made no
friends whilst there, but noted much twitching from the curtains
of our
neighbours! Finding the studio from which to do the paintings is
an
important part of the creative process...like making an art out
of the world
you find yourself in before you can create. The four paintings
were about
addressing, and recognising sacred space...about the hunter
gatherers...and
the female warriors...and the final painting was titled, 'Shaft
of the Dead
Man'...of which my last new route was named after.

No, I won't be watching the world cup!

I will have a glass with friends at home...with a meal etc, but
I am not a
pub kind of guy. I am more likely to buy a fruit juice than
anything
alcoholic.





Removed User 05 Jul 2002
by - Dave Collier:
In reply to Removed UserJCT:

What's his favourite rock?


Answer.


I don't have a favourite rock although the rock is an integral
part of a
feeling that contributes to a sense of place. I think touching
granite
especially healing...especially when travelling from a city.




by - Marc Chrysanthou:
In reply to Removed UserJCT: Jude, I'd like to delve a bit more into his
naming of
routes. I mean, why Womb Bits, Menstrual Gossip, Labial Display,
Poetry
Pink, etc? Does he think such names are misogynistic or does he
see
rockfaces as feminine landscapes ?

Also, where can one view his paintings (and are they only
affordable by
mega-rich art collectors ?)?

And, did he lie to Jim Perrin (I think it was an article
collected in On and
Off the Rocks or Yes to Dance) when Jim quotes him as saying he
didn't train
at all (AND YET, he injured his ribs when Dave Towse bumped into
him when
fooling around on a climbing wall).

Oh yes, does he still see Dave Towse ?

One more (!). Why wasn't he (or maybe he was?) particularly
drawn to
gritstone ? Was his comparative neglect of grit to do with
aesthetic
criteria ?


answer.


I have never named a route Labial Display...and I would define
such a name
as too literal, too obvious...a little shallow...a little porno
in flavour.
Poetry Pink refers to the changing colour and tones that move
across the
Rainbow Slab on wet but sunny evenings...when the sun skirmishes
under the
cloud and celebrates itself among the textures of the slab.
Misogynist?
Could never quite grasp where people come from on this one. Womb
Bits is a
fine name that takes its name from having made love with a lady
who had
previously had an abortion. My erect member cleaned up some of
the mess that
should have been removed during the operation! Again, I am at a
loss to
understand the claim of misogyny? A little bad taste perhaps you
might say,
but surely a graphic celebration and a human need to make light
out of what
was a difficult time for the lady in question...and her humour
at witnessing
this situation was part of the celebration...part of the healing
process.
Menstrual Gossip, again a natural celebration of the female
cycle! I think
it highlights the verbosity and ignorance in some peoples
difficulty in
decoding a name in anything but literal terms...leading on to
all the
PC-psycho-babble-bully about misogyny that does nothing to
address the true
nature and real harm done to women in our society...rather, it
feeds off it.

The women in my life are all strong, powerful and independent
women...not
feminists with an axe to grind or with weird f*cked up feminine
agenda. I
talk about this in my book '..and one for the crow'...it is a
sad age that
cannot celebrate such natural cycles....surely it is misogynist
to isolate
and confine the feminine principal...these women are open and at
ease and
conversant with such subjects. They know who they are!


As regards selling my work...I discourage the buying of my
paintings by
overpainting an older one. This means they cannot be collected!
At any time
I only have seven paintings for an exhibition or performance. As
I said in a
previous answer, I do not acknowledge being the artist in the
performances.
I occasionally sell a sketch if there is a bill to be paid. I
don't sell for
the sake of selling.

On the subject of training...no, it never really happened! Never
had the
time or will or energy! Climbing walls were often more arsing
around than
bouldering, hence the injury that you mention. Dave Towse and I
often played
gladiators from the ropes, and one time dave was wearing a lead
belt which
cracked three of my ribs during a mid air collision. I see dave
most days.
He lives up the hill from me, and I have just designed a
conservatory for
his house.

I have in fact climbed a lot on grit, with many early ascents of
the older
hard routes...I love the texture and the feel and the
situation...travelling
to Armscliff every evening from Hull doesn't strike me as
neglectful. Never
having been fit, I find that big routes give me the opportunity
and time of
getting fit whist on the route! Once committed, you find the
strength and
fitness that you need. I've decked loads on smaller routes
because of this
factor!



by - Marc Chrysanthou:

In reply to Removed User: ...er, if I'm allowed one more
(John was
one of my heroes early in my climbing career - the photos of him
in Welsh
Rock - Raped by Affection, The Clown, and Cardiac Arete - are
CLASSIC)....
how come John's so down on Johnny Dawes for his 'unethical'
style of ascent
("shoddy tactics") of Indian Face, when he himself wasn't averse
to placing
a bolt?!

Answer. A good question! I will answer after I have been for an
Indian in
Llanberis...I'm starving...working all day and then this...I
feel like
therapy and joining some chat line. So on my return this
evening...!



Removed User 05 Jul 2002
i would just like to say that john is a very busy man, with work, home and family, and he is BOTHERING to freely give up his time to continue a dialogue with a load of people whose faces he can't see - (remember he is not a regular part of this virtual community so for him it is not like chatting to his online chums).

it would be nice to have just a tad more appreciation instead of the sarcy churlish unappreciative quips we got from some people on the other thread. as john cox has so rightly pointed out,


>You have the chance to talk to someone who could virtually onsight The Bells in 1980 (81?). The equivalent of talking to, let us say, Pele or Maradona.


true.








FH 05 Jul 2002
In reply to Removed User:

A none arty farty one question for him;

What was his initial reaction to Ron Fawcettes down grading of Banans from 7a to 6b?

Removed User 05 Jul 2002
in reply to john redhead:


>Menstrual Gossip, again a natural celebration of the female
cycle! I think
it highlights the verbosity and ignorance in some peoples
difficulty in
decoding a name in anything but literal terms...leading on to
all the
PC-psycho-babble-bully about misogyny that does nothing to
address the true
nature and real harm done to women in our society...rather, it
feeds off it.

The women in my life are all strong, powerful and independent
women...not
feminists with an axe to grind or with weird f*cked up feminine
agenda. I
talk about this in my book '..and one for the crow'...it is a
sad age that
cannot celebrate such natural cycles....surely it is misogynist
to isolate
and confine the feminine principal...these women are open and at
ease and
conversant with such subjects. They know who they are!






this answer is brilliant. see? i KNEW this bloke could see through all the bullshit the minute i set eyes on him.


In reply to FH:

>What was his initial reaction to Ron Fawcettes down grading of Banans from 7a to 6b?


i will tex him that one FH.



OK i have to walk the dogs in the rain by frothing river, take my daughter to her flute exam, then jump on the train to leeds and off to the dales for a weekend party so i wont be online again until monday afternoon when i will be able to post john's further answers, although i guess he might come on here to post them himself in the meantime, which would be nice


have a nice weekend everybody
Ben Tye 05 Jul 2002
In reply to Removed User:

>This is one of the best threads I've seen,

Ditto..

Whilst I'm not that surprised by the reaction of some people to Jude and JR, I still find it disapointing.

Well done Jude & Brian for bringing JR onto Rocktalk and also to the people who composed questions.

B
FH 05 Jul 2002
In reply to Removed User:


" then jump on the train to leeds and off to the dales for a weekend party "

Linton per chance?

Howard Peel 05 Jul 2002
In reply to Removed User:

I would not be so presumptuous to claim that I know the answers to any of the following:

Where is John Redhead really coming from?

What were his climbs about?

Why the references to existential concepts ('authentic desire' and so on)?

However, I would humbly suggest that the following probably gives a good a starting point as anything when seeking the answers (other than reading his book that is!).


From GWF Hegel, The Phenomenology of Mind.

'And it is solely by risking life that freedom is obtained; only thus it is tried and proved that the essential nature of self-consciousness is not bare existence, is not the merely immediate form in which it at first makes its appearance...The individual, who has not staked his life, may no doubt, be recognised as a person; but he has not attained the truth of this recognition as an independent self-consciousness.'


Regards,

Howard.


OP international_with_a_suffix 05 Jul 2002
In reply to Howard Peel:
an interesting mix. Existentialism (to do is to be) with phenomenology (to be is to do).

I suspect (guess...) that JR is more a mystic existentialist than a phenomenologist. I can't see him having much truck with the idea that his essence pre-exists him and that his actions are in effect pre-determined.
Howard Peel 05 Jul 2002
In reply to international_with_a_suffix:

One might be surprised. It would seem that JR does not even buy in to the generally accepted myth that one has 'free will'. In his essay Margins of the Mind' he says;

'Negotiate without numbers of grades... it isn't safe, it isn't a pastime and it isn't pretty... there is no 'free will' whatever ones head-magic pretends.. and one must dredge through the corpse and carcass of time... beyond the crust...from a laugh to a death..to a point of contact with the bugs...

It is all pretty clear really!

Regards,

Howard.

 Michael Ryan 05 Jul 2002
In reply to Removed User:

> i put these new answers on the end of the other thread last night, but on reflection im starting a new thread because personally i find long threads a bit tiresome to keep checking.

Which is funny for two reasons.

1. You personally measure the worth of a thread by it's length not it's content.

2. You've just started another long tiresome thread.

Oh and you both (JCT and JR) need editing ( a good editor)....the message would be so much clearer and it would reach more people.

You are pissing in the wind with these unformated and un-edited posts.

How's that for a bunch of constructive criticism?

Mick

Dave Collier 05 Jul 2002
In reply to international_with_a_suffix:

Maybe he's just ordinary flesh and blood like you and I who appreciates a bit of granite. Warm granite or cold granite? Or doesn't it matter? I don't suppose it does really.
Removed User 09 Jul 2002
john answered a few more questions after he got back from his curry on friday night, unfortunately as my junglemate is still playing up ive only just got the mail, sorry about that.

by - Marc Chrysanthou:

In reply to jude calvert-toulmin: ...er, if I'm allowed one more
(John was
one of my heroes early in my climbing career - the photos of him
in Welsh
Rock - Raped by Affection, The Clown, and Cardiac Arete - are
CLASSIC)....
how come John's so down on Johnny Dawes for his 'unethical'
style of ascent
("shoddy tactics") of Indian Face, when he himself wasn't averse
to placing
a bolt?!


Answer. A lot has been said as regards my take on this. Page 62
of my book
'...and one for the crow'. I have always stated that the tactics
Johnny used
to climb The Indian Face were shoddy...Remember that I got a
long way up
that wall in EB's, not really knowing where I was going or
whether I could
even climb it. No top-roping and no practicing, just abseil
inspection in
trainers...like I always did. After the 85 feet fall, I carried
on and got a
little higher...totally stuck and jumped for an abseil
rope...blah, blah,
history. I went back and after much debate (nobody climbing that
terrain
could say it was a bad choice at the time) placed a bolt. The
bolt never
protected me on the route because I never went back to complete
the route.
The bolt was placed as my high point...a token pissing against
the tree...I
was there if you like...'The Tormented Ejaculation'...Paul
Williams bought
the painting of the same name. I never had a chance to come back
because I
broke my wrist badly the next year. Meanwhile, Jerry had stepped
in with new
sticky boots (I think he was the only person to have a pair) and
climbed the
line, Masters Wall. He chopped the bolt even though his route
traverses off
twenty feet below the bolt! He gets his route but its a cop-out.

Remember I was attempting the route virtually ground up. There
were no
accusations of chipping or scars then, and the final groove was
untouched.
The tradition which I had set and which saw me place the
bolt...as a
highlight of that tradition...was not to be continued. Johnny
now set the
scene with top-roping and pre-placing and practicing and
eventually climbed
his route The Indian Face. Which in fact I admired...but we had
totally
different approaches. I set off into unknown terrain, as I
needed to, and
have no problem in not completing the line which I envisaged. I
had had
enough. Johnny did not enter the arena and continue with the
same 'I may die
today' approach. He became the first to use sports climbing
tactics to bag a
route on Cloggy. Subsequent ascents are all the same. The top
groove, in
fact the whole route is scarred from the hundreds of top-ropings
it has had.
Top-roping damages the rock! I believe that if the bolt had
stayed (and I
don't advocate bolts on a mountain crag) The style of ascent
would have
meant less damage to the rock...and it would have been harder to
repeat
because top-roping and practicing would have been classed as
'cheating'!
Personally I don't think Johnny achieved what I had achieved on
that
wall...and he's missed out on the experience. Bullshit is what
replaced it.



brendonTendon:
In reply to jude calvert-toulmin:

Ask him about the time when a certain person turned up at his
house to find
Dave Towse on the roof, with John shouting "come back down, I
love you" at
him from the window. He then appeared at the door, naked with
full wood. Was
it the acid, the ecstasy, just luurrrv, or something else?


Answer.


This is in fact true, as witnessed by John Silvester who was
living in my
caravan at the time...It was that kind of house! I bought the
house off Paul
Williams. A similar thing happened between Jim Moran and Paul
Williams....and also Pauls wife and Martin Crook...Bobby Drury
also lived in
this caravan and his girl friend used to...or was it...hell, the
eighties!
No acid, no ecstasy...not a great deal of love...it were
climbing youth,
climbing!



John2:
In reply to jude calvert-toulmin: Why were so many of his first
ascents at
Gogarth and Cloggy so serious? Did he actually seek out serious
lines
because of the mental state that climbing them produced?

Why does he now like to climb churches - does he see some
connection between
religious buildings and the cliffs that he used to climb on?


Answer.


Yeah, I guess. I think I've covered that one a few times!

I don't see cathedrals in the religious sense. I have little or
no respect
for man-made doctrines that proselytize and persecute that which
is
different, or other. I am not a Christian! I am interested in
the early
esoteric traditions of the early church....the Kabbalistic
influences and
the cults of Isis and Osiris...the temple dancing and tantric
sex
enlightenment! They are of use and make sense to me. Cathedrals
are usually
build on sacred, PAGAN ground... taken off those living in
harmony with the
land, and the feminine principal, who they killed and burned in
the name of
their religion. I bring to mind the sacred groves of the
Celts...and the
mystery and magick still present in the Welsh tongue (for those
who
recognise it).

The cathedrals present serious, interesting climbing potential
on very
exposed and unpredictable rock. There is no connection with a
cliff or
rockface. The rock is more sacred and profound than any man-made
religious
artefact could ever be. Climbing a cathedral I like to think
that I am
rejoicing with the old, wise souls who worshipped the earth
festivals, who
join me in ridiculing all this male, macho bullshit!




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