UKC

i want to buy 8 ice screws for socttish winter, ice falls, winter alpine and glaccier travel. i'm considering BD turbo Exspresses, Dmm Revolution, and the grivle 360s americana and heliexs.

I am i right in thinking the 8 will be more than enough for scottland and alpine? and at least 1/2 a cascade rack.

i was tihnking on getting 1 22cm, 5 16/17cm, 2 13 cm

any comments?

In reply to The Great Pretender:

Turbo Express are ace. I have a couple of DMMs too and they are harder to place than Turbos. A 13cm Turbo held me on an 8m leader fall in Scottish ice, which surprised me. (Both the fall and the fact it held).

Davie

In reply to The Great Pretender: Got turbos, much better than the petzl ones everyone else was using last winter.

In reply to The Great Pretender:

Have used the DMM and te BD Turbo Express. Both good, BD's slightly easier to place. With the shorty DMM I used it made very little difference, but with the 19cm one, the BD definitely had the edge on ease of use.

We had no problems in Rjukan earlier this year with a rack of 12 screws. And when we borrowed a couple more for one of the multipitch routes, we needn't have bothered.
Of course that may be because we were doing pretty easy stuff.

8 is too many for glacier stuff IMO, but it depends what sort of route you'll be doing once you're across the glacier I guess!

HTH

Si

In reply to SCC: i kno 8 is far to many for glacier stuff. i meant having one (or 2 max) if it all goes tits up on the glacier.

In reply to The Great Pretender:

BD are good, i's avoid the grivel 360's as they dont rack well and a bit fiddly. BD are nice and simple.

In reply to The Great Pretender: have found grivel go in best in my experience, then BD then dmm, have used 360 and americana, you would only want 1 or 2 360 for awkward placements, the americana rack fine and the handle doesnt get in the way on cascade ice,
never had more than 6, so only ever used 6, always saving one for abalokov belay making, makes you climb quicker if oyu are not stopping every 3m to place a screw

In reply to gear boy:

Hurts more if yoou fall off though!

In reply to TobyA: *with a stiff upper lip of a brit and a pipe in his mouth*

"the leader never falls lad"


%-)

In reply to The Great Pretender:

The Grivel Helix are good value and very easy to place.

In reply to The Great Pretender:

Have a look at www.backcountry.com - you can get ice screws pretty cheap - despite them being imported from the USA

J

In reply to The Great Pretender:
when I researched this last year I came to the conclusion it was a 2 horse race BD turbo express and grivel 360.

They both bite roughly equally, once in the grivels are marginally easier to screw in however they are more clonky to rack.

I bought the BDs.

In reply to TobyA: Toby, as you appear to do/have done a fair amount of ice climbing. which do you have? and what have you used? which would you buy now if you were replacing?

In reply to The Great Pretender: I've got old CM lasers (OK), old DMM/Excalibur with rachet handles (crappy - fine for belays), CAMP titaniums (good for glaciers and being fat can go safely in old normal sized holes), and BDs both with and without the wee handle. Out of them clearly the BDs with the handles are good.

I've used friends' Grivel 360s and bent the handle of one whilst trying to get it out when water flowing down the ice had started to freeze over the screw - had to chip away some ice first, so a bit crappy in that respect. I've also used the new CM lasers with the twiddly handle and it worked fine for me despite what some reviews say, although I wear thin gloves. I've also used the new DMM screws that go in very nice but you miss the little handle of the BD screws.

Over all anyone who climbs ice regularly shouldn't worry about which bite best etc because in my experience sooner or later you need to sharpen the screws and then are all much of muchness and depends on your skill at sharpening. If you only climb a few fat icefalls once a year perhaps its worth thinking about, but anyone who uses their screws regularly will hit rock sooner or later.

So BD expresses basically will be my choice for runners but there's not as much in it between different brands as some would have you believe. For belays it doesn't matter so much - as you can even use two hands if you want, i'd get whatever 22 cms one you find cheap.

In reply to The Great Pretender: The way ahead IMO is to go for DMM with the stubby sizes (cheaper) BD Turbo for the majority and if you're gonna have any 22cm ones get Grivel 360, pain in the tits to rack but by far the easiest to place.

In reply to The Great Pretender: I have always sworn by BDs and Charlets, but on brittle ice 360s are a piece of p..s to place. I honestly would'nt bother with dmms.

In reply to The Great Pretender:

Mine are all Black Diamond. (Plus 3 Warthogs)

For many, many, years the Black Diamond screws were head and shoulders above all the others. Now, the others may have caught up a bit, but the bottom line is still that you can't really go wrong with BD.

Cosmic John.

In reply to TWINKLETOES: I have only used 360's so cant really comment on anything else, Beautiful to go in but then again they were new. the handle makes it a piece of piss.

Yes as they are a pain to rack I just got one of them pan pipe holder jobbies for them. Well for the first five anyway.

In reply to The Great Pretender: Have a mix of BDs and 360,s, both very good.

For glacier work all you need is some very long, very cheap, very lightweight east european titanium jobbies.

Try and do an internet search for the Salwea screws with the integral extender and foldaway handle - they look to be the next step on from BD and Grivel but have only seen them for sale in Rjukan at approx £100 each (ouch)

In reply to The Great Pretender: i have a couple of helix and three turbo,s and they do me fine so i would choose bd or grivel hands down (helix aren,t as bad as you think to rack !)
i have six screws and coupled with my marra,s we have enough for anything we want to do.
jas