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Another quickdraw question

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 sebf 26 Sep 2006
Why does one end tend to be straight gate, and the other bent gate? I presume the bent gate is to make it easier to clip the rope in? is the other gate straight so that you remember which end to put the rope in, to avoid the rope getting damaged by any burrs caused from clipping the other end onto rough bolts etc?

Is a bent gate a big advantage for clipping the rope in - will I regret it if I buy some wire-gate QDs which are straight gate both ends?
OP sebf 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf: Oh, and how many will I need to be able to climb most routes at portland?
irving 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf: It's political correctness gone mad, that's all.
 Smitz 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf: Your assumptions are correct, although in practice none of these things really have any effect, or, at least, none of them will make a difference to your climbing.
Why do they exist? So manufacturers can add "NEW AND IMPROVED HIGH TECH DESIGN!!!" on the package and charge you a bit more.
Well that's my opinion anyway, any one who disagrees is automatically a gear-whore suckling on gear manufacturers' teats. Oh yeah.
OP sebf 26 Sep 2006
In reply to irving: haha

Now I think i read the benefit of wiregates is the gate weighs less, so has less momentum when you fall and the krab smashes into the wall, meaning it's less likely to unclip - is that right? And obviously they're lighter. Any disadvantages? Strength aside that is, since clearly they're still strong enough or they wouldn't be able to get away with selling them!
 Ridge 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf:

As you've guessed, the bent gate is designed to make clipping the rope easier.
Being a skinflint I only have straight gate qd's, and to be honest it doesn't make much difference, IMHO.
I alway use the same krab to clip the rope though, (marked with tape), to prevent damage from nicks.
OP sebf 26 Sep 2006
In reply to Smitz: I knew someone would say that. Nothing wrong with being a gear whore though, if you like that kind of thing - it's good to be happy with your equipment, gives you no excuses!
 Smitz 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf:
> (In reply to sebf) Oh, and how many will I need?

12-14 is a good number anyhwere, not just portland. Allows you to leave one in the bottom of your bag, and a few spare hanging off you at all times so the "ladeez"© can identify you as the leader, not the second. Very important, this.
 nikinko 26 Sep 2006
In reply to Smitz:
> Why do they exist? So manufacturers can add "NEW AND IMPROVED HIGH TECH DESIGN!!!" on the package and charge you a bit more.

sod being charged bit more- you still *have* to buy them even if you have a perfectly good and functional set of the old design... or does that take us back to the trail readers conversation?
OP sebf 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf: And I suppose you can't get bent-gate wire-gates because the wire would just straighten out under tension, I wondered why I hadn't seen any around!

So, straight wires, or bent non-wires? What's your preferance?
 stevomcd 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf:
> (In reply to irving) haha
>
Strength aside that is, since clearly they're still strong enough or they wouldn't be able to get away with selling them!

Wiregates are generally STRONGER than the equivalent solid gate! Presumably because the wire is steel, whereas the solid gate is poxy aluminium.
 Smitz 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf: Bent gate <whatever>s sometimes have a bent nose, which can sometimes catch on gear or the rope. This will only happen to you once or twice though, so ... go for bent! Why? They feel smooooth against your thumb as you unclip stuff.
 Ridge 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf:
> (In reply to sebf) And I suppose you can't get bent-gate wire-gates because the wire would just straighten out under tension

What tension?

I have straight wires because:

a) they were cheap at needlesports
b) various techy things like less prone to gate flutter and freezing, (not that I ever climb owt bold or cold...)
c) Have more uses than a bent gate - racking gear, building belays etc.
OP sebf 26 Sep 2006
In reply to stevomcd: Ah, that's interesting that is

So, I think I'm about to buy a bunch of DMM Prowires from Needlesports - not as pretty as the heliums I've been eyeing up, but a lot more realistic price wise! And although I'm just going to be climbing sport for now before I make the physical/mental/financial leap to trad, I'll buy a range of sizes to give me more flexibility in the future.

How many do I need? I'm f*cked if I'm goign to buy 14 straight off, surely I don't need that many for the climbs at portland, I was guessing 6-8?
OP sebf 26 Sep 2006
In reply to Ridge:

"c) Have more uses than a bent gate - racking gear, building belays etc."

I'm intrigued - can you explain? cheers.
 Smitz 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf:
> How many do I need? I'm f*cked if I'm goign to buy 14 straight off, surely I don't need that many for the climbs at portland, I was guessing 6-8?

Now my earlier reply about 12-14 did have a very important though oft-dismissed truth in it: impressing the ladies with all your shiny gear WILL ACTUALY MAKE YOU CLIMB HARDER.
So how many? There's no real answer, not even if you narrow it down to portland, so get as many as you can afford.
OP sebf 26 Sep 2006
In reply to Smitz: OK, but suppose I'm a bit skint at the moment, and would like to climb at portland this weekend, how many will I need. bearing in mind I can easily buy more to impress the ladies and climb longer routes another time :P
 Ridge 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf:

A straight gate krab is just easier to use as general purpose krab. The gate on a bent krab gets in the way if you decide to use it for any other purpose, (racking nuts for instance), than clipping a rope through it.
 sam coward 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf:

8 should do for most things on Portland.

You will also need a sling and some screw gates for the lower off. If you don't know what to do at the top do a search or ask.

Sam
OP sebf 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sam coward: Cheers Sam.
Serpico 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf: If you're going to be using them for sport climbing be aware that if you fall, or even just hang on them, on bolts (not staples or resins) they're going to get eaten away pretty quickly. I've just replaced all my bolt end krabs as they were getting a bit thin at the top of the spine.
It's not a problem if you're not intending redpointing or falling much(which goes with pushing your grade). Otherwise I'd recommend a heavier top krab like a Tru klip.
 Monk 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf: I would go for wiregates if for no other reasno than they are lighter. That may not be an issue now, but when you are on a big trad mountain route, you will be glad of your lightweight krabs.

I would think 8 would do you for most routes at portland, but if you are feeling skint, then 6 will get you up plenty of shorter routes. Remember a sling and krab for the top and it can be a good idea to have an extra krab handy in case you drop a quickdraw or something.
 kathrync 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf:

If you want to see that the wire gates are stronger (or at least strong) look here http://www.needlesports.com/acatalog/Mail_Order_Karabiners_22.html

about half way down the page just above the DMM shield krabs.

In solid gates, the weak point is the pin and that is usually the first bit to go. With wire gates, there is no seperate component there to be a weak point.

K
OP sebf 26 Sep 2006
In reply to kathrync: ah, good point kathryn, thanks for that!
OP sebf 26 Sep 2006
In reply to Ridge:

>> "And I suppose you can't get bent-gate wire-gates because the wire would just straighten out under tension"

> "What tension?"

The tension that would get put on it when you take a fall. Maybe I'm wrong but I've not seen any bent-wire-gates out there anywhere.
 IainWhitehouse 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf:
> (In reply to Ridge)
Maybe I'm wrong but I've not seen any bent-wire-gates out there anywhere.

I've seen lots. They are common amoung Euro manufacturers.
 Graham6664 26 Sep 2006
In reply to sebf:
Have a look at these,
http://www.rockrun.com/shop/prod.html?d=2&t=11&p=3139&sid=9eb72...
They are a good price and strong. there are two lengths available 12cm & 17cm.

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