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When I learnt the whole anchor thing, I used to construct an anchor with two pieces of pro, using the two half ropes from my tie in loop to tension off an equalized anchor with one rope going to each piece correctly tied off. Shepherd's manual was my guidebook at the time. On multi pitch stuff, be it summer or winter, it seemed ideal. However the vogue is now very much for using a long sling correctly equalized. I can see that the rope method is a real pain in the arse if you're not alternating leads, but apart from that, why do people tend to favour slings nowadays? I showed some novice buddies the rope method a while back, then they went off all brighteyed and bushy tailed fullof the joys of ropework, climbed a multi pitch route but got chastised by someone for correctly applying the rope method, who incidentally when asked douldn't offer any remotely valid reason against the rope tying in method. He simply gave it a good old "I wouldn't do it like that if I were you". Personally I think that on multi pitch if you're swinging leads it seems ideal, as the amount of knots involved in this method (cloves or 8s) would absorb a great deal of the impact force. Are there arguments against his system for someone who can handle ropework? i.e. "It's a lot less fidddly with a sling" isn't in my opinion much of an answer. What do you reckon?
In reply to nickinscottishmountains: I prefer using the rope for 2 reasons, first of all it is stronger in terms of absolute load it can take than a sling, second, being dynamic the rope absorbs much of the impact that would otherwise be transmited direct to the anchor points.
the only reason I can think of for using a sling instead of the rope would be to allow you to escape the belay without having to remove your harness, that said it is possible to do that when using the rope anyway, so why weakon your system unneccesarily? (sp?)
the only reason I can think of for using a sling instead of the rope would be to allow you to escape the belay without having to remove your harness, that said it is possible to do that when using the rope anyway, so why weakon your system unneccesarily? (sp?)
In reply to nickinscottishmountains: I always use ropes and a hitch, but sometimes if you need a lot of gear for a decent belay it may be easier to use slings also. Try equalising 6 bits of gear using only ropes. Sling might also be handy if the next pitch is a long un.
1
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I generally use the rope(s) whenever possible, but will use a sling as well when it seems sensible.
There is a tendency now to move towards using cordelettes or web-o-lettes to set up anchors, because they're often quicker and easier to equalise than ropes.
One thing that often amuses me, especially on short pitches where you have plenty spare rope, is seeing people fiddling around on a stance for ages trying to get semi-dodgy bits of gear in when there's stacks of bomber placement, but maybe 10-15 feet away. There was a guy last time I was at Sennen (said he was an instructor) who was attached by a single sling to a sloping blunt projection where the sling would have had a high chance of slipping over the projection if his second had fallen. As soon as I appeared next to him on the (very large) stance area he said "You can't share this anchor". I said "wouldn't bloody share something that dodgy if you paid me", and got 2 bomber bits and a thread in about 15 ft back from the edge. He looked quite shocked!
I generally use the rope(s) whenever possible, but will use a sling as well when it seems sensible.
There is a tendency now to move towards using cordelettes or web-o-lettes to set up anchors, because they're often quicker and easier to equalise than ropes.
One thing that often amuses me, especially on short pitches where you have plenty spare rope, is seeing people fiddling around on a stance for ages trying to get semi-dodgy bits of gear in when there's stacks of bomber placement, but maybe 10-15 feet away. There was a guy last time I was at Sennen (said he was an instructor) who was attached by a single sling to a sloping blunt projection where the sling would have had a high chance of slipping over the projection if his second had fallen. As soon as I appeared next to him on the (very large) stance area he said "You can't share this anchor". I said "wouldn't bloody share something that dodgy if you paid me", and got 2 bomber bits and a thread in about 15 ft back from the edge. He looked quite shocked!
In reply to Rob Naylor:
How often do people miss the blindingly obvious trick of taking the rope round a bloody big boulder ?
90% of the time, I use the ropes to tie in unless there are particular circumstances stopping it.
How often do people miss the blindingly obvious trick of taking the rope round a bloody big boulder ?
90% of the time, I use the ropes to tie in unless there are particular circumstances stopping it.
In reply to Rob Naylor: Yeah, I definitely prefer using the rope in winter, where there's often good pro (mixed routes) but even a 16 foot sling won't do the trick. I very much like the idea of sharing the load between two ropes rather than just one sling. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that over the last five or so years, there's been a noticeable shift towards slings.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains: I agree with the other guys. I don't see anything wrong with the rope tie in, in terms of safety in holding a fall, the dynamic safety effect is a bigger plus than the minus of being pulled into wierd places by rope stretch in a big fall.
I personally very rarely belay on only one or two anchors, so I find I still use some slings with the rope tie in.
The advantage of being able to use out of the way anchors is also the big disadvantage. You could be in big trouble if you have a dead weight on the rope and can't find near anchors to re rig. You might need to haul him up. Even if you are sure you can re rig you still will need to have extra slings against the possibility of having to escape the belay by re rigging the anchors, so that's more gear to carry (unless you are happy re rigging one rope while held by the other).
The cordelette is probably the better way in most cases, the only real disadvantage it offers is the fact that it is doesn't maintain perfect equalisation if the load direction is not the anticipated one. also it is extra gear to carry. Sometimes that makes it a poor choice, but not so poor a choice as the messy, hard to equalize sling anchors many climbers end up being forced to make when placements are spaced and they don't want to use the rope or haven't enough. These eat far more nylon for less convenience.
I personally very rarely belay on only one or two anchors, so I find I still use some slings with the rope tie in.
The advantage of being able to use out of the way anchors is also the big disadvantage. You could be in big trouble if you have a dead weight on the rope and can't find near anchors to re rig. You might need to haul him up. Even if you are sure you can re rig you still will need to have extra slings against the possibility of having to escape the belay by re rigging the anchors, so that's more gear to carry (unless you are happy re rigging one rope while held by the other).
The cordelette is probably the better way in most cases, the only real disadvantage it offers is the fact that it is doesn't maintain perfect equalisation if the load direction is not the anticipated one. also it is extra gear to carry. Sometimes that makes it a poor choice, but not so poor a choice as the messy, hard to equalize sling anchors many climbers end up being forced to make when placements are spaced and they don't want to use the rope or haven't enough. These eat far more nylon for less convenience.
In reply to paul:
I use the rope as much as possible the more links in the chain the weaker the chain.
I use the rope as much as possible the more links in the chain the weaker the chain.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains: i think were all agreed, but further from that, do you prefer indirect belays (via you / your harness) or do you prefer direct belays (i/e straight to the anchors) so that if your second did fall you could easily escape the system to help him out.
i always did the former untill recently when my second fell - he was a big guy, and i founf holding 16 stone around the base of my back quite uncomfortable, since then i have been doing a lot of direct belays.
what do you think?
i always did the former untill recently when my second fell - he was a big guy, and i founf holding 16 stone around the base of my back quite uncomfortable, since then i have been doing a lot of direct belays.
what do you think?
In reply to Trystan: i prefer to use direct if it is practical but i find it rarely is as the rope is usually in a funny place and taking the rope in does my back in. using a Reverso in locking mode if i'm confident my second wont fall has made the decision easier. i dont find sticht plates much cop for direct belays as it's hard to find a position that is efficient for taking in the rope and for holding a fall(youll know what i mean if you have tried it).
going back to the rope/sling thing, i only use the equalising sling method if i'm 100% certain of the anchors, usually bolts, because have you thought about what happens if one of the anchors rips?, i also clip a slack loop of rope with knot into one or both of of the anchors to avoid being attached by just the one sling to both anchors.(this makes it easier to swap place if not changing leads.
bye for now
going back to the rope/sling thing, i only use the equalising sling method if i'm 100% certain of the anchors, usually bolts, because have you thought about what happens if one of the anchors rips?, i also clip a slack loop of rope with knot into one or both of of the anchors to avoid being attached by just the one sling to both anchors.(this makes it easier to swap place if not changing leads.
bye for now
In reply to nickinscottishmountains: What is a cordellete?
In reply to Anonymous: cordelette? isnt that a form of explsive?
on a serious note, the use of slings does introduce additional links inthe chain, but for a positive reason...
wrapping something around a lump of rock will result in wear and tear... it is cheaper to replace a sling than a rope - isnt that the reasoning? or am i off the mark here?
have set up anchors without slings, and they have been looked at by other people and they said "well, hmm, i guees its safe...."
yeah - the less links in a chain the better - but if a link saves the rope, isnt that a good thing?
on a serious note, the use of slings does introduce additional links inthe chain, but for a positive reason...
wrapping something around a lump of rock will result in wear and tear... it is cheaper to replace a sling than a rope - isnt that the reasoning? or am i off the mark here?
have set up anchors without slings, and they have been looked at by other people and they said "well, hmm, i guees its safe...."
yeah - the less links in a chain the better - but if a link saves the rope, isnt that a good thing?
In reply to Anonymous: a length of rope tied into a loop with a fishermans knot.
In reply to Anonymous: You make em really long (eg 20ft round) and use them to equalize multiple anchor points on belays. Really popular in the States
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
You can use either rope or slings or both, horses for courses.
The book led belaying systems are ok but you still need to think for yourself, for instance when you get on somewhere like etive with one good belay or two manky ones do you run off screaming because it does not fit the handbook? Lots of routes are like that, try and get three bombproof belays on some of the mixed winter routes and you will never get up anything.
Have you got an old rope that you retired because a stone fell on it and chopped it? Get the good bit and cut yourself a 20ft piece for a belay sling in place of a cordelette. Take some for abseil tat, its not likely to let you down or cut like line.
You can use either rope or slings or both, horses for courses.
The book led belaying systems are ok but you still need to think for yourself, for instance when you get on somewhere like etive with one good belay or two manky ones do you run off screaming because it does not fit the handbook? Lots of routes are like that, try and get three bombproof belays on some of the mixed winter routes and you will never get up anything.
Have you got an old rope that you retired because a stone fell on it and chopped it? Get the good bit and cut yourself a 20ft piece for a belay sling in place of a cordelette. Take some for abseil tat, its not likely to let you down or cut like line.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains: i absoulutely agree rope is always better unless you use so much that you don't have enough for the next pitch of course
In reply to nickinscottishmountains: I tend to use which ever is the more convenient. I can see a scenario where a cordelette is required and if one was to use a rope, the knot would be humongous. Where the choice between the rope and sling is more evenly balanced, I would favour the rope. Good luck.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains: thing is if you tie in using the ropes then you cant run it out as far til the next belay. not so important when cragging though. best to use whatever system your happiest with except in alps or winter when you want as much rope as possible available for the poor unfortunate who is on the sharp end to run out.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I always try to use a sling on multi-pitch, as my g/f does not lead . However, now I have a big sling I find it very easy to use. I was taugth using the rope method, which seems fine to me, esp for cragging.
I always try to use a sling on multi-pitch, as my g/f does not lead . However, now I have a big sling I find it very easy to use. I was taugth using the rope method, which seems fine to me, esp for cragging.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains: I seem to remember when I used to climb routes that I would generally use a rope for the belay, when one person was leading then we'd use a combination of the two as this left a permanent anchor point which ment that we were never detached from the rock , butthis was then backed up with the rope.
I remember climbing with onme friend when I couldn't be arsed to clip in when we were about to ab off was only concerned with me clipping in to the main bit belay aaah
I remember climbing with onme friend when I couldn't be arsed to clip in when we were about to ab off was only concerned with me clipping in to the main bit belay aaah
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I always try to use the rope unless i'm doing all the leading and then i use slings - much easier to swap.
As with most things there is no correct way to do it, just personal preference. As long as its safe then i see no problem with either method. Some times you end up with a combination of both anyway.
I always try to use the rope unless i'm doing all the leading and then i use slings - much easier to swap.
As with most things there is no correct way to do it, just personal preference. As long as its safe then i see no problem with either method. Some times you end up with a combination of both anyway.
In reply to Ian Straton:
don't really see your point about escaping the system without removing your harness - there is a simple system for doing this that most books show, plus I don't see how a sling or rope constructed anchor makes any difference.
I like to use the rope for simplicity, using a load of slings just makes an anchor look so confusing and if it looks confusing then how easy can it be to check visually and be confident in it? Having said that if it seems more appropriate to use a sling or two, I will - its a case of having a range of basic options that you can adapt mto a given situation.
I don't use the rope particularly for the dynamic element in the anchor - how much extra give do you get from 8ft of rope?
don't really see your point about escaping the system without removing your harness - there is a simple system for doing this that most books show, plus I don't see how a sling or rope constructed anchor makes any difference.
I like to use the rope for simplicity, using a load of slings just makes an anchor look so confusing and if it looks confusing then how easy can it be to check visually and be confident in it? Having said that if it seems more appropriate to use a sling or two, I will - its a case of having a range of basic options that you can adapt mto a given situation.
I don't use the rope particularly for the dynamic element in the anchor - how much extra give do you get from 8ft of rope?
In reply to H: ++I don't use the rope particularly for the dynamic element in the anchor - how much extra give do you get from 8ft of rope?++
agree. you would be much better with a load limiting sling aka screamer---------------------------------------------------------------------------
agree. you would be much better with a load limiting sling aka screamer---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In reply to d hunter:
good on really marginal anchors, which with my level of climbing you tend to avoid anyway
good on really marginal anchors, which with my level of climbing you tend to avoid anyway
In reply to d hunter:
Yes this bit about a dynamic element is complete tot!! If you are belaying a second then there is no need for any part of the system to be dynamic anyway (if belays are sound) and if you are belaying a leader the dynamic bit is in the length of rope out to the leader and the weight of the second counterbalancing the load is the rest of it...there shouldnt be any load on the anchors anyway unless they have been put in for an upward pull in which case the load is minimal.
As to whether you use the rope or a sling it matters only to make the belay quicker to build and easier to change over. You can only get 2 clove hitches on the harness into one HMS krab so it depends how many HMS krabs youve got spare or want to clog up your tie in loop with......
Yes this bit about a dynamic element is complete tot!! If you are belaying a second then there is no need for any part of the system to be dynamic anyway (if belays are sound) and if you are belaying a leader the dynamic bit is in the length of rope out to the leader and the weight of the second counterbalancing the load is the rest of it...there shouldnt be any load on the anchors anyway unless they have been put in for an upward pull in which case the load is minimal.
As to whether you use the rope or a sling it matters only to make the belay quicker to build and easier to change over. You can only get 2 clove hitches on the harness into one HMS krab so it depends how many HMS krabs youve got spare or want to clog up your tie in loop with......
> (In reply to H) ++I don't use the rope particularly for the dynamic element in the anchor - how much extra give do you get from 8ft of rope?++
>
> agree. you would be much better with a load limiting sling aka screamer---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> agree. you would be much better with a load limiting sling aka screamer---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In reply to Hillman:
"You can only get 2 clove hitches on the harness into one HMS krab" - unless of course you don't bother with a krab and use a fig.8 knot tied into your tie-in knot.
"You can only get 2 clove hitches on the harness into one HMS krab" - unless of course you don't bother with a krab and use a fig.8 knot tied into your tie-in knot.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Using the rope more efficient if alternate leads, but for anchors of the sling/rope round spike/boulder variety, getting a sling stuck is annoying but not usually a safety issue - getting a rope stuck *can* be a safety issue.
Using the rope more efficient if alternate leads, but for anchors of the sling/rope round spike/boulder variety, getting a sling stuck is annoying but not usually a safety issue - getting a rope stuck *can* be a safety issue.
In reply to Trystan:
always always always use direct belay if possible
if not possible- will rig a locking Krab at a higher level and pass rope through that so if second falls then effective pull on me is upwards- not downwards- easier to control and a lot less painfull.
> (In reply to nickinscottishmountains) i think were all agreed, but further from that, do you prefer indirect belays (via you / your harness) or do you prefer direct belays (i/e straight to the anchors) so that if your second did fall you could easily escape the system to help him out.
>
> i always did the former untill recently when my second fell - he was a big guy, and i founf holding 16 stone around the base of my back quite uncomfortable, since then i have been doing a lot of direct belays.
>
> what do you think?
>
> i always did the former untill recently when my second fell - he was a big guy, and i founf holding 16 stone around the base of my back quite uncomfortable, since then i have been doing a lot of direct belays.
>
> what do you think?
always always always use direct belay if possible
if not possible- will rig a locking Krab at a higher level and pass rope through that so if second falls then effective pull on me is upwards- not downwards- easier to control and a lot less painfull.
In reply to Dave B:
Slings are also handy if climbing in a group of 3 as they give you a convenient centralised point for
everyone to clip into. I've used them for eaxctly this reason a few times. However, if climbing in pairs
and swapping leads then I'll just use the rope.
In reply to whoever said to watch out out for ripping anchors with slings, this is surely only a
problem with self-equalising set ups where you aren't tight to any of the anchors? Even with
self-equalising set-ups, you can tie overhand knots in the sling each side of the self-equalising
bit to ensure that it won't move far should one anchor rip.
Andy
Slings are also handy if climbing in a group of 3 as they give you a convenient centralised point for
everyone to clip into. I've used them for eaxctly this reason a few times. However, if climbing in pairs
and swapping leads then I'll just use the rope.
In reply to whoever said to watch out out for ripping anchors with slings, this is surely only a
problem with self-equalising set ups where you aren't tight to any of the anchors? Even with
self-equalising set-ups, you can tie overhand knots in the sling each side of the self-equalising
bit to ensure that it won't move far should one anchor rip.
Andy
In reply to Removed User: interesting option that last one, with the extra locking krab.like it
In reply to all who replied: thanks-loads of little gems in there i hadn't thought of.
In reply to Removed User:
I don't normally use direct belays (except on bolted routes where a Kong GiGi is a superb (and cheap) way of belaying two seconds in parallel on long multi-pitch routes) however the system of belaying through a higher anchor is excellent and has a great deal to recommend it.
1. It stops you getting a sore back from belaying a second indirectly off your harness due to bending forward all the time to take rope in.
2. Holding your second (comfortably) after a fall is easier and you are already set up in a 1:1 hoist to give your second some assistance from the rope if required.
3. It makes escaping the system and/or setting up a 3:1 (5:1,6:1) hoist a doddle
4. For leading through your partner has their first runner in place and your belay device will be correctly orientated to belay them on upward. It also completely eliminates the risk of a factor 2 fall on the belay.
Definately something to consider, ideal on hanging stances provided there is a good high anchor. I started using it on the advice of an MIC whilst ice climbing in the Rockies with him this Winter and watched numerous US/Canadian climbers and guides do it.
Just a general comment, I think the widespread use of slings to equalise belays is partly because it is a widely taught technique as part of SPA and is essential for MIA type instructing/guiding where you are leading two novices on multi-pitch.
Also when thinking about teaching a novice about equalised belays, using a sling it is very easy to get them to understand the concept. It is easy to teach only one method and if they can use that, then with enough slings and krabs any anchor (ie 6 placements) can be equalised. However with ropes although you could argue things are simpler, there are lots of differing ways of doing things and with three anchors things can get muddled. Also many climbers get pre-occupied with thinking they need three perfectly equalised gear placements in every belay, that they miss the bloody great boulder they could just loop the rope round.
On 4 multi-pitch routes on Sunday I didn't use any slings to equalise anchors and many belays were just off one large natural anchor.
Mark
> always always always use direct belay if possible
> if not possible- will rig a locking Krab at a higher level and pass rope through that so if second falls then effective pull on me is upwards- not downwards- easier to control and a lot less painfull.
> if not possible- will rig a locking Krab at a higher level and pass rope through that so if second falls then effective pull on me is upwards- not downwards- easier to control and a lot less painfull.
I don't normally use direct belays (except on bolted routes where a Kong GiGi is a superb (and cheap) way of belaying two seconds in parallel on long multi-pitch routes) however the system of belaying through a higher anchor is excellent and has a great deal to recommend it.
1. It stops you getting a sore back from belaying a second indirectly off your harness due to bending forward all the time to take rope in.
2. Holding your second (comfortably) after a fall is easier and you are already set up in a 1:1 hoist to give your second some assistance from the rope if required.
3. It makes escaping the system and/or setting up a 3:1 (5:1,6:1) hoist a doddle
4. For leading through your partner has their first runner in place and your belay device will be correctly orientated to belay them on upward. It also completely eliminates the risk of a factor 2 fall on the belay.
Definately something to consider, ideal on hanging stances provided there is a good high anchor. I started using it on the advice of an MIC whilst ice climbing in the Rockies with him this Winter and watched numerous US/Canadian climbers and guides do it.
Just a general comment, I think the widespread use of slings to equalise belays is partly because it is a widely taught technique as part of SPA and is essential for MIA type instructing/guiding where you are leading two novices on multi-pitch.
Also when thinking about teaching a novice about equalised belays, using a sling it is very easy to get them to understand the concept. It is easy to teach only one method and if they can use that, then with enough slings and krabs any anchor (ie 6 placements) can be equalised. However with ropes although you could argue things are simpler, there are lots of differing ways of doing things and with three anchors things can get muddled. Also many climbers get pre-occupied with thinking they need three perfectly equalised gear placements in every belay, that they miss the bloody great boulder they could just loop the rope round.
On 4 multi-pitch routes on Sunday I didn't use any slings to equalise anchors and many belays were just off one large natural anchor.
Mark
In reply to Armitage Shanks: I agree with you. As you say a chain with the minimum number of links is safer.
There are however I'm sure you agree, many cases when slings and cordelette are the safest, quickest and easiest way to rig a belay. The number of experts, guides and rescue teams who use and teach these systems must testify to their being of value in many cases.
Horses for courses. I'm sure you'll agree, the important thing is to have lots in your stable and know when to bring which ones out.
There are however I'm sure you agree, many cases when slings and cordelette are the safest, quickest and easiest way to rig a belay. The number of experts, guides and rescue teams who use and teach these systems must testify to their being of value in many cases.
Horses for courses. I'm sure you'll agree, the important thing is to have lots in your stable and know when to bring which ones out.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Well, this is my opinion:
The extra 'elasticity' gained from tying in with the rope rather than with a sling is negligable, particularly when the leader has climbed more than a few metres. The elasticity provided by the rope between the belay device and the leader is easily sufficient.
The only arguments I would have for the sling system is that using a long sling to equalise all the anchors to one point can save rope on the stance when rope is short. Also, sometimes by coincidence the sling is just the right length and you can clip straight into it - minimising fuss when the ropes are taken in just before you second a pitch. It CAN be quicker, depending on the circumstances.
I've found that the rope work is usually more effective - the anchors are more often than not just that bit too far apart for the sling system to effect minimal loading of the anchors i.e. the angles between the anchors are too big, if you see what I mean.
Every belay is different and at the end of the day, if it's safe, then I wouldn't usually stick my nose in and tell someone 'how I would do it if I was them'! And it sounds like they were so...
Well, this is my opinion:
The extra 'elasticity' gained from tying in with the rope rather than with a sling is negligable, particularly when the leader has climbed more than a few metres. The elasticity provided by the rope between the belay device and the leader is easily sufficient.
The only arguments I would have for the sling system is that using a long sling to equalise all the anchors to one point can save rope on the stance when rope is short. Also, sometimes by coincidence the sling is just the right length and you can clip straight into it - minimising fuss when the ropes are taken in just before you second a pitch. It CAN be quicker, depending on the circumstances.
I've found that the rope work is usually more effective - the anchors are more often than not just that bit too far apart for the sling system to effect minimal loading of the anchors i.e. the angles between the anchors are too big, if you see what I mean.
Every belay is different and at the end of the day, if it's safe, then I wouldn't usually stick my nose in and tell someone 'how I would do it if I was them'! And it sounds like they were so...
In reply to Andy S:
For God's sake Andy, it's midnight, pour yourself a large one and talk nonsense for once.
For God's sake Andy, it's midnight, pour yourself a large one and talk nonsense for once.
In reply to Dave Collier:
I find tea helps the nonsense flow, but I'm about to pour my first one soon, so watch out!
I find tea helps the nonsense flow, but I'm about to pour my first one soon, so watch out!
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
self equalizing belay anchor-
http://www.calpoly.edu/~epeabody/CLIMBanchor.html
better make sure both points are totally bomber though cause if one pulls- the remainder gets shock loaded-
wouldn't fancy it on ice though as shown on the picture!
self equalizing belay anchor-
http://www.calpoly.edu/~epeabody/CLIMBanchor.html
better make sure both points are totally bomber though cause if one pulls- the remainder gets shock loaded-
wouldn't fancy it on ice though as shown on the picture!
In reply to Removed User: Call me old fashioned, but i wouldn't try that method!
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
me either!!!
> (In reply to Scott) Call me old fashioned, but i wouldn't try that method!
me either!!!
In reply to Removed User:
I was told to set up ice-screw anchors like that by a Swedish guide a couple of years ago. He dismissed my concerns about shock-loading without any real explanation.
We continued to disagree, which caused a bit of a problem during climbs, as you can imagine.
I was told to set up ice-screw anchors like that by a Swedish guide a couple of years ago. He dismissed my concerns about shock-loading without any real explanation.
We continued to disagree, which caused a bit of a problem during climbs, as you can imagine.
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