UKC

Bowline or figure eight?

I prefer the a stoppered bowline.

In reply to julianwedd:

depends what type of climbeing your doing - a loaded figure of eight that is also frozen is a pain to undo

In reply to julianwedd: Re-Threaded bowline...The Super Knot!

In reply to julianwedd: try the three quarter fishermans if you fancy a change, works very well and doesn't tend to jam

In reply to julianwedd: bowline in winter as it's easier to undo once frozen,, but i tend to use it indoor now especially as i'll be routing, then changing, then routing just makes it easier and i've a one handed method which means it never goes wrong,, (which is the main concern,,)

In reply to julianwedd:
Thrappleworth hitch.
:

In reply to julianwedd:

I second the bowline, impossible to get wrong tying it one handed and quick at that.

Also, if you are stuck (when not roped) and someone has to throw a rope down to you, you can tie to one handed bowline without letting go of the rock with the other hand. Handy.

In reply to Wingnut:
I use a fig 9, sometimes 10 depending on rope diameter. Harder to thread but strong.

-Magnus

In reply to schloosh:

Hooray, people are getting the message that the fig 8 is not the be all and end all of climbing knots.

In reply to gingerdave13:

How do you tie a bowline 1-handed? I usually use one to tie in with, but haven't worked out the one-handed technique yet...

In reply to stuartf:

erm....

Rope hanging down, loop the end round you/belay loop.
Never let go in this bit, put over the rope, then back round under it and over again, then let go of the end as you pass it over and under the rope then pull back through the loop you should now have round your arm.

Not too easy to explain but dead easy to learn when shown.

In reply to schloosh:
then let go of the end as you pass it over and under the rope

This bit should have read

then let go of the end as you pass it round the back of the rope.

all makes perfect sense now

In reply to stuartf: www.animatedknots.com/bowlineonehand/index.php

Its easy once you get it: easier than doing it two handed i find!

In reply to anthonyecc:

I only learned the proper way last year!

Was about 10 in the scouts when someone from northumbria MRT showed me the one handed way, promptly forgot the tree and hole method!!

In reply to julianwedd:
Anybody remember the Penberthy knot. Its about 30 years ago so I hope I have it correct,

In reply to sutty:

I think people tend to shy away from the infinitely better knot, the bowline because it is easy to get it wrong, but i believe that it is a very easy knot to tie once learned.

The fig 8 is logical in its structure and this is the main reason for teaching it to beginners. But, do you think that we should forget convention and teach people to use the Bowline? I do.

In reply to anthonyecc:

Not happy with the way he ties that stopper knot though, must try it and see how it looks with rope.

In reply to sutty: I find tying the stopper easier by threading the rope thru my harness top to bottom. It also hangs better i find.

In reply to julianwedd:

Edwards Bowline http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4

In reply to julianwedd:

one that is safe .. gets my vote

In reply to julianwedd:
-For multi-pitch I use a figure of eight.
-For single pitch and indoors I use a bowline.

The bowline is quicker to tie and easier to undo. Unfortunately since it's easier to undo there may also be a marginally higher chance of it working loose over time.

When climbing indoors and doing a dozen routes each with a partner, saving 5 seconds when tying in and another 10 when untying actually adds up to an extra 5-6 minutes climbing time in an evening. However an extra 15 seconds as part of a 12 hour alpine day is hardly an issue and I prefer having the extra (possibly perceived?) security of the figure of 8 if I'm going to be tied to a rope for most of the day, or in the case of a big wall 3 or 4 days.

HTH

In reply to Mark Stevenson:

Same as you Mark. Always use a snug stopper for my bowline.

When ice climbing on skinny, slippy icelines I always use fig 8

In reply to julianwedd: figure 8

In reply to Wingnut:

Ok. Having just picked up Gravity magazine and seeing the Thrappleworth hitch at the back, reading the article about it and remembering this thread I decided to folow the instructions and try and tie it.

Is this knot for real?

Maybe the article in Gravity magazine is a joke? If so... NOT FUNNY.

I quote: (NB Not the whole article, just highlights)

1. Take a loop, a loop and another loop (great decription so far!)
2. Invert the whole thing - if doing this with a sheep ask the farmers permission.
4. Insert loop A into loop D, twist Z behnd F and reverse twist end B.

There were no prior descriptions or labelling of what A, B, D, F or Z are. So I've been duped huh!

Ok. Ok. Article aside. I do a search on the internet and reap no leads. Anyone got a link?

Is this an urban climbing legend. Er. That should probably read a climbing urban legend?

Message ends.

A similar earlier thread

http://tinyurl.com/yqx55b

In reply to julianwedd:

Doesn't really matter which one you use so long as you know how to tie it correctly, recognise when it is incorrectly tied and know the knot's strengths and weaknesses.

When I started climbing I used the Figure of Eight - until I took my first leader fall. Have used the Bowline (latterly the double Bowline) ever since.

boB

In reply to julianwedd: I'm in love with the bowline. I tie it in my dreams. With luck and God's Mercy, I will get to tie it in Heaven.

In reply to julianwedd:

I saw the Black Diamond catalouge last summer, it contained a campaign to stop people tying in with the bowline due to the possiblity of it coming undoune if not tied correctly and the fact that a cursory examoination may not reveal it is wrong. They had a story of a guy weho had falled after said bowline coming undone and had broken a most impressive list of bones.

Their point was that it is easy to spot a figure of 8 that is not tied corrctly and even incorrectly tied it is still probably safe (overhand knot or figure of 16)

Gary

In reply to julianwedd: Figure 8 for me - I once had a bowline invert on me while thrutching through an overhang(I only noticed when above the crux and the rope came free from my harness!). I usually have plenty of things to worry about when I'm climbing, becoming detached from the rope is not one I want to add to them!

In reply to julianwedd: figure of eight for me

In reply to julianwedd: Figure of 8 for me but the bowline or Yosemite Bowline is so much easier to do when cold, tired, wearing gloves, tying it behind your back with a blindfold on.

In reply to julianwedd:

fig of 8 about 99% of the time, though the ability to tie a bowline one handed should not be overlooked.

In reply to julianwedd:


http://i1.tinypic.com/2z3z8ts.jpg

In reply to julianwedd:
Figure 8 with enough left for a back up granny.
And when those grannys back up, best run.
Woman can't see over the steering wheel.

In reply to julianwedd:
double bowline and fisherman stopper tight up to the knot,
firstly because it's quick and easy, and secondly cos I'm a bit forgetful and have been known to untie an 8 and pull the rope through without untying the one from the rope itself - (get what i mean??)

In reply to julianwedd:

Definately a slippery hitch.

In reply to PJay:
Solution to abject buffoonery when using 8's:
Clip knot (and NEVER untie while climbing) to double reversed locking crabs that never leave your harness.

In reply to julianwedd: as a tree surgeon as well as a climber i think without doubt the bowline is the best knot! it can be done one handed<behind your back if it takes your fancy> and comes out with ease and never jams!

In reply to mattgc2:
Ease of untying and the behind your back business is good for the accident prone, but in terms of strength the 8 has been proved to be best.
I know cuz a dominatrix told me.

In reply to Regis Von Goatlips:

lol so true i would not recomend the "behind the back style" im just emphasising how easy it is!