UKC

I've seen this term used few times on here now, but when searching or googling, I don't come up with much at all.

Just wondering what it is and how & why one would do it, ta.

F

In reply to Fraser:
It's continuous climbing for an extended period (up to 45mins) below your local anaerobic threshold (without getting pumped). Doing this increases capilarity and mitochondria. You have a better blood supply to the muscles, and better energy production within the muscle.
It's benefits are that you can climb further without getting pumped, and are better able to clear a pump when it develops.

In reply to Serpico:


An unfortunate physiological side effect is that it numbs the brain.

In reply to Simon Lee:


that might be helpful if you can retain that for some routes though..

In reply to Serpico: So ARC stands for....Aerobic Respiration Capacity ???

In reply to Stig:
Aerobic energy Restoration and Capilarity, according to the good book (PRC).

In reply to Simon Lee:


Not if you wear a walkman and use that time to learn another language.

Mostly I just listen to Queens Of The Stoneage...

There is something of a distance runner mentality about ARCing, It's hell for the first 10 mins and then after an hour I'm thinking 'I'll just do another 10 mins and then I'll stop'.

In reply to Serpico:

At least with running you usually have to get back to the car/home. When my wife was by the side of the road at the 12 mile point when I tried a half marathon I just stopped and got in the car. With ARC its even worse - you can step off at any time. I only tried it a few times.

In reply to Simon Lee:
Where's your commitment man? They knocked down my local ARCing venue (Blackburn YMCA), so I've been doing 30min ARCs on my fingerboard - that's commitment!
Anyway you do more ARCing than you think, lot's of easy (for you) trad pitches in a day. The work rate is less, but the effects are similar.

In reply to Serpico:

just curious how you do that...i've got one but tend to use if for strength training....the literature seems to warn against using them excessively etc.

In reply to Morgan Woods:
I've got a foot board with a few screw-ons. It is more shoulder intensive than climbing, probably because fingerboards are quite narrow compared to how you climb normally, so there's more impingement of the tendons/bursas. I try to lay-away/get my weight out to the side of the board so as to open out the shoulder more.
It's a compromise, and tedious beyond belief, but the benefits of ARCing are worth pursuing.

In reply to Serpico:

ta!

In reply to Serpico:

It occurred to me just now that Yuji et al have taken to strapping TEMS? machines to their arms at the end of the day to save the bother of warm-down routes ( I have a mental image of Yuji walking off twitching like Charlie Chaplin does when he leaves the factory in Modern Times).

Could using a TEMS? machine be a highly convenient ARM workout ?. If so you could do it in your armchair which would make it highly suitable for Rocktalkers - although it might lead to more typos.

In reply to Simon Lee:
The French and Spanish are well into them, and now some of the British team have/are getting them. As you say they're mainly using them for recovery, but the intensity of recovery training and ARCing are the same.
I've had one for a few years and mainly used it for ARCing, there is a BIG problem though. EMS works best on muscle just below the skin, so lats, biceps etc are easy to activate. The muscles of the forearm are in 3 overlapping layers: The superficial layer mainly flexes the wrist, The middle layer flexes the fingers at middle joint. And the deep layer causes fingertip flexion. So with careful electrode positioning the best I've been able to achieve is innervation of the middle 2 fingers at the middle joint. You can also get the little finger to move, but that tends to come with flexion of the wrist. I've never succsessfully managed inervation of the index finger or the finger tips.
So if you can get one cheap (mine was from ebay) it's worth experimenting with. The ones to get are Compex (that's what everyone uses), Cefar (what I've got), or Decathlon do one that we looked at when we were in Font that might be ok. I'm sure there's a few in Sheff' you could borrow.

In reply to Serpico:

can you actually get any REAL gains with ems (my only experience with ems was after treatment for a back injury)

In reply to Serpico: so is SACC the same thing as ARC? remember reading about SACC stuff on gresham's articles on planet fear n it sounds like this... u think that things like power balls could be used to train it ina similar way to the machines you're talking about? presumably they'd only do the top layer of forearm muscles you were talking about as its just wrist motion...?

In reply to lost1977:

For ARCing for climbing? Possibly, but limited by the factors I described above.
Generally, for more easily accessed muscles, yes. There are plenty of studies out there on EMS for strength and endurance.
The results are: EMS combined with strength training > strength training > EMS >control group.
All these studies are applicable only to pro' EMS units.

In reply to abarro81:
Yes

Don't know. I think you'd be flirting with repetetive strain injury. 'Performance Rock Climbing' suggests the use of 'squeezing devices' if you can't ARC on a wall. Personally I think that they'd be too non-specific to warrant the effort.

In reply to Serpico et al:

Thanks for the replies and coments. My post was actually promoted by the discussion between you and Wilbur's recent thread about training, and I wasn't sure what it meant.

I'm not going to ask for a personal training regime all mapped out, don't worry, but would just ask if the 45min sets you recommend are fully continuous climbing or if you can rep. routes by either being lowered off and getting straight back on the wall or untying first then re-leading.
Cheers

F

In reply to Fraser:

Unless you have a very compliant belayer it is more common to do this by traversing or going up down and around a bouldering wall (off peak)as continuously as you can.

In reply to Fraser:
As continuous as you can make it. The intensity should be low enough that you can down-climb, unclipping if you need, and then climb up and repeat.
If you've got access to an old skool vertical Bendcrete or DR concrete wall these are the best ARCing walls there are.

In reply to Serpico & Simon Lee:

Hmm...I think it'll need to be on a short, vertical bit of the DR lead wall in Glasgow. The other areas are too narrow to (boulder)traverse, or 5 deg's overhanging (on lead) and I doubt there's anything easy enough for me to be able to stay on for 45mins.

It's only about 8m tall, so it'll be up and down-climbing for the duration, or as long as I can manage.

Cheers again.

In reply to Fraser:

Hey Serpico are you a physio? Or something related. Your knowledge is pretty full on. I have a question that perhaps you can answer. Kind of related to this thread.

I study Chi Kung. Much like Tai Chi/Yoga except that you are holding static postures/positions that promote blood flow and a meditative state. Many of these positions have hands raised to shoulder height and out in front of the body. The knees are bent (like the horse stance in Karate.) The positions can be held for ten to twenty minutes and barely no pump is felt as you build up your ability. It got me thinking, as I am thinking about endurance training to better my ability to climb for longer and clear pump, that is this kind of exercise having a similar effect to ARC training, all be it on a lot lower level?

Does it effect a certain type of muscle (slow twitch) to have to keep your hands/arms in these positions? Here is a link to one so you can see what I am talking about:

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.chi-kung.no/bilder/YuYo...

Thanks.

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In reply to tommyzero:
No, I'm a nerd.


Not sure about them promoting blood flow, static (isometric) holds limit blood flow and raise blood pressure for the duration of the contraction, dependent on the level of the contraction. so the heart would beat faster, but with lower stroke volume. What the overall effect is I don't know. These types of exercise are generally very good for improving posture and relaxation.
Many of these positions have hands raised to shoulder height and out in front of the body. The knees are bent (like the horse stance in Karate.) The positions can be held for ten to twenty minutes and barely no pump is felt as you build up your ability. It got me thinking, as I am thinking about endurance training to better my ability to climb for longer and clear pump, that is this kind of exercise having a similar effect to ARC training, all be it on a lot lower level?

The main benefit of ARCing is local endurance, specifically the forearms, these exercises aren't going to target that. Secondary benefits are: getting used to spending a long time on the rock, and the opportunity to hone skills in a low stress, low intensity environment. Not enough technique work is done at low intensity, you wouldn't try to learn technique in Gymnastics or Martial Arts by performing them at high/competition intensity straight away, but that's what climbers do every time they get on a boulder problem.

In reply to Serpico:
Knowledge is power.

Clearly so, judging by your profile tick-list !

In reply to Serpico:

OK. Cheers. Nerds are cool.

The exercises are very gentle. The contraction minimal in this case (as opposed to Shaolin Chi Kung where the postures are very deep!). The idea is to relax as much as possible in the postures. It raises the heat beat so perhaps it is assumed that it therefore raises the blood flow? I wouldn't know the ins and outs though.

Just wondered if I was getting an added benefit/form of training as a by product? Probably not likely by the sounds of it.

Chi Kung is amazing though, even if it is placebo/relaxation rather than some wolly chi mysticism.

For the first time last week I saw the benefit of a climber returning the basics at a lower grade for 3 months worth of training. His grade has slipped, although in the long term I am sure he will surpass his previous ceiling. He spent a long time building a base of fitness that is solid and hopefully he can improve his power and strength whilst staying injury free. HIs technique and endurance, power and strength have all improved beyond belief.

He has described so many added benefits as by products of the training he did too. It is infectious. I am looking at a similar programme.

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