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NEWS: Ines Papert makes first-ever M13 female ascent

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 Michael Ryan 22 Feb 2007
Ines Papert repeated "Law and Order", Markus Bendler's M13 at the Diebsöfen in Austria. This is the first-ever M13 female ascent.

More at.. http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
 TobyA 22 Feb 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: It says she did it "iceless" which makes the "M" of M13 see a bit silly doesn't it? I totally support and 'get' mixed climbing, but if there isn't any ice then its not mixed climbing.
OP Michael Ryan 22 Feb 2007
In reply to TobyA:

That's what I thought.

Mick
 Norrie Muir 22 Feb 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> (In reply to TobyA)
>
> That's what I thought.

There could be frozen turf, so it would be a Winter Sports route.
Dave Brown2 22 Feb 2007
In reply to TobyA:
On hard sport mixed routes, ice is really asthetic and desirable. However even when thin and tricky, the ice sections are inconsequential in the overall terms of route difficulty.

So the '13' in 'M13' is not about the ice, even though the M grade implies 'mixed'. The '13' all relates to the 40 meters of severely overhanging rock section.

Dave B
 Norrie Muir 22 Feb 2007
In reply to Dave Brown2:
>
Thanks for clearing that up, so what Dry Tooling grade would it be in summer?
Ian Hill 22 Feb 2007
In reply to Dave Brown2:
> The '13' all relates to the 40 meters of severely overhanging rock section.
>


which she aid climbed...
Dave Brown2 22 Feb 2007
In reply to Norrie Muir:
Not climbable in summer.
 Norrie Muir 22 Feb 2007
In reply to Dave Brown2:
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
> Not climbable in summer.

So it is climbable in winter with no ice, but not climbable in summer, how come? Is the turf not frozen?
 TobyA 23 Feb 2007
In reply to Dave Brown2: They may be inconsequential in terms of physical difficulty but not necessarily in terms of actually doing the route. I'm sure you've read the report on Illuminati by Albert Leichtfried in the most recent Vertical. He makes the WI6 sound in many ways worse than the M11+, at least in the sense that was the bit that was most likely to kill him.

Like you say it is the ice sections that make mixed routes "really a[e]sthetic and desirable", they are central to it being "mixed". I know some people use D grades for pure dry tooling routes, and if this route was ice free at the time than that just seems to make more sense. There is enough rock in the world for pure dry-tool routes, as well as mixed routes, I've got no problem with that. But purely from a logical point of view - if there isn't any ice involved they aren't mixed routes so saying she has done the first female ascent of a M13 just seems misleading.

This takes nothing away from Papert who is clearly nails (as well as coming across really well in interviews) and this obviously remarkable achievement, but different types of climbing have developed their own grading systems for a reason, just like no one now claims to have climbed an E8 when they do an 8b sports route, as used to be the case at the end of the 80s.
 TobyA 23 Feb 2007
In reply to Ian Hill: Ian, you are probably semi-joking, but can I ask, have you ever tried ice or drytooling with leashless tools (or indeed even leashed tools)?
 TobyA 23 Feb 2007
In reply to TobyA: http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/Illuminati/ now that's what I call really aesthetic and desirable!
 galpinos 23 Feb 2007
In reply to TobyA:

Totally agree Toby. Tried some dry tooling in Norway this new year (due to the poor ice conditions) And was a lot more psyched for the routes with a bit of ice on them. There seemed to be a point to them.

(Found it all terrifying even on top rope and very physical. Having your axes pop without warning is very disconcerting!)
Ackbar 23 Feb 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Are "M" grades for bolted or trad protected routes?
 tony 23 Feb 2007
In reply to Ackbar:

Bolted.
 Burnsie 23 Feb 2007
In reply to tony:

not necessarily
 tony 23 Feb 2007
In reply to Burnsie:

really? Oh well, shows what I know. Can't imagine there are many trad protected hard M lines tho'?
 Morgan Woods 23 Feb 2007
In reply to Ian Hill:

what are you trying to say?
 TobyA 23 Feb 2007
In reply to tony:
> Can't imagine there are many trad protected hard M lines tho'?

There are many many many. Its becoming a standard grading system throughout the worlds mountains for grading mixed climbing. Brits keep insisting on giving their routes in the Greater Ranges Scottish grades but the rest of the world politely ignores us.

Expect arguments in years to come as to whether Tower Ridge is only given M3 - not M2+ - because the MRT are trying to scare punters away or not.
OP Michael Ryan 23 Feb 2007
In reply to TobyA:
> (In reply to tony)
> [...]

> Expect arguments in years to come as to whether Tower Ridge is only given M3 - not M2+ - because the MRT are trying to scare punters away or not.

Will Fiend invent an M0 grade?

 TobyA 23 Feb 2007
In reply to TobyA: Plus among what we think of as "M style routes" drytooling between ice (as opposed to mixed ground mountaineering) there are lots of trad protected routes.

Just flicking through neice.com (seems that the New Englanders are particularly traddy) I found:
http://neice.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2776&sort=1&cat=504&...
http://neice.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1821&sort=1&size=med...

But on that site I've seen much crazier stuff done with trad gear.
 TobyA 23 Feb 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> Will Fiend invent an M0 grade?

His little wee hands would get cold first and he'd be greetin' for his mum. I don't think Fiend does "uphill" does he so it seems unlikely he would be able to get to the crags concerned.
Anonymous 23 Feb 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: In any event, I heard she frigged it. Wink wink
OP Michael Ryan 23 Feb 2007
 TobyA 23 Feb 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> Mega crag.....I'm just south of there as I write.

Why are you here (at the computer) then, and not there (swinging your tools up some great ice)? Don't be a wuss, go and get some sticks.

> Fiend would also get a bit cold with his habit of going bareback at any opportunity.

It must be some weird, secret masochistic pleasure of your cold-hardened nips rubbing against the rough grit?

OP Michael Ryan 23 Feb 2007
In reply to TobyA:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]
>
> Why are you here (at the computer) then, and not there (swinging your tools up some great ice)? Don't be a wuss, go and get some sticks.

Work. Have been snowshoeing this morning. Going upto the Adirondacks next week.

Sticks are here.

M
 Fiend 23 Feb 2007
In reply to TobyA:

If my little wee hands were getting that cold I'd be bearing down on the grit.

Now can someone start the winter, please, cheers.

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