/ e0 ..what the ..................
Maybe it isn't linear.
Ha! Good way of putting it
Put that in your pipe and smoke it Fiend!
E0 my arse
It's a new grading concept, fully compatible with and enhancing the current system that bridges the gap between HVS and E1 and resolves almost all the contentious grade debates around that standard. Whether this gap is genuine, psychological, or due to the number of climbers operating at the standard doesn't matter - either way E0 solves the problems that arise from those grades.
See here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/caff/forums/t.php?t=17566
And here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/caff/forums/t.php?t=21481
Ah, elitism rears it's ugly head in the form of Mister Lincoln.
Actually E0 is just as useful for stopping the current Gritfax-led trend of rampant upgrading of slightly-harder-than-HVS climbs to E1...
I suspect its all about ego massaging.
Ah, jealousy rears it's ugly head in the form of Mister Fiend.
if thats not an elitist statement i'll eat JCT's scab
As I said before ............
Oh sod it, I can't be bothered anymore
PS you were saying ;o)
I sort of gave it as the grade on the names of some photos from Brimham Rocks (I can't recall if they were nominated as E0 initially). They were of the Smartie Tube. It seemed appropriate. You'd never give them a climbing grade but it looks like a hell of a struggle.
In earlier times I guess we'd have just called them VDiff. But then nobody would have bothered with them. E0 sounds like something to aspire to, except once you're there you'll wonder. E9 climbers can struggle on E0s. VDiff leaders may sail up them. They're the ultimate equaliser in climbing - the grade that isn't a number.
Well, that's my line, anyway.
Indeed, I remeber failing on a sandstone off width climb in Kent filled with slippery moss and prickly plants and graded 2b. In fact it was a prime example of an E0. E0 2b (minus 3 stars).
Yeah, and my best trad lead to date is E-4. But I've seconded E-2. All clear now?
Inspired application of the E0 grade :)
This use is actually far more useful in many ways than Fiends original concept. Perfect for all these ungradable climbs that deserve recognition.
Isn't that what XS used to be?
Sorry to point this out fiend but in solving one problem you have created two more, namely the gaps between HVS and E0 and also between E0 and E1. This division you talk of occurs between all the grades... For instance on Grit it is quite common to find it between VDiff and S or S and HS or even HS and VS, as the grades were pushed up in these grade bands on grit. However it still exists between all the grades...
so in effect, E0 is just making the same climbs easier with time?
Pah, dont think so!
E grades were not introduced to split HVS, they were introduced to differentiate between extremes like Astra and Footless Crow which both used to get XS.
Pete Botteril introduced the system in around 1975 or so.
Also there are some routes that have changed grade due to holds breaking off, polish etc. The others were probably mis-graded though grade creep has had its way.
> In earlier times I guess we'd have just called them VDiff.
Nice - but I thought that was what HVDiff was for - routes always to be avoided.
On the other hand this could be the most long lasting troll we've had.....
No, JCT is surely the longest lasting troll.
How about E5 and a half? I'd say the problem occurs at whatever grade you're pushing. Have you not got a bit carried away?
Personally (and this is not because it is at my limit) I think that E2 is a wide grade, on peak grit at least (go look at the graded list in PGE). Conversely, E3 is pretty compact.
Having said that, and I hate to say this, but Fiend's argument does need knocking down properly, which we haven't quite done yet. Last time we blasted away at this, Mike Whittaker (who ought to know a bit about it given his cataloguing efforts) came to his defence with the argument that the VS-E1 range (I think that was it) ought really to be four grades not three. I'm sure it's wrong, but it's a tricky argument to defeat, and no doubt time consuming to do so.
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