/ e0 ..what the ..................

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mark s - on 19 Aug 2002
just seen someone grade a route e0 whats going on there.is this something hvs climbers have invented bacause they cant do an e1
Vdiff Dave - on 19 Aug 2002
In reply to mark s:

Maybe it isn't linear.
Adam Lincoln - on 19 Aug 2002
In reply to mark s:
Ha! Good way of putting it

Put that in your pipe and smoke it Fiend!

E0 my arse
Fiend on 19 Aug 2002 - usr1814-bra.blueyonder.co.uk [cache-cro-hsi.cableinet.co.uk]
In reply to mark s:

It's a new grading concept, fully compatible with and enhancing the current system that bridges the gap between HVS and E1 and resolves almost all the contentious grade debates around that standard. Whether this gap is genuine, psychological, or due to the number of climbers operating at the standard doesn't matter - either way E0 solves the problems that arise from those grades.

See here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/caff/forums/t.php?t=17566

And here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/caff/forums/t.php?t=21481
Fiend on 19 Aug 2002 - usr1814-bra.blueyonder.co.uk [cache-cro-hsi.cableinet.co.uk]
In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Ah, elitism rears it's ugly head in the form of Mister Lincoln.

Actually E0 is just as useful for stopping the current Gritfax-led trend of rampant upgrading of slightly-harder-than-HVS climbs to E1...
balls of cotton wool on 19 Aug 2002 - dial-62-64-213-141.access.uk.tiscali.com
In reply to Fiend: whats the problem with HVS-E1 gap?
I suspect its all about ego massaging.
mark s - on 19 Aug 2002
In reply to Fiend: the gap between hvs and e1 is no differant than between any other grade.the only real gap is e5 to e6 thats when things get serious
mark s - on 19 Aug 2002
In reply to Fiend: why is adam elitist,he climbs hard grade you climb easy stuff,so what
balls of cotton wool on 19 Aug 2002 - dial-62-64-213-141.access.uk.tiscali.com
In reply to Fiend:

Ah, jealousy rears it's ugly head in the form of Mister Fiend.

> Actually E0 is just as useful for stopping the current Gritfax-led trend of rampant upgrading of slightly-harder-than-HVS climbs to E1...

if thats not an elitist statement i'll eat JCT's scab
kevin stephens - on 19 Aug 2002
In reply to balls of cotton wool:

As I said before ............

Oh sod it, I can't be bothered anymore
balls of cotton wool on 19 Aug 2002 - dial-62-64-231-171.access.uk.tiscali.com
In reply to kevin stephens: lol!
quite....



PS you were saying ;o)
In reply to mark s:
> just seen someone grade a route e0 whats going on there.is this something hvs climbers have invented bacause they cant do an e1

I sort of gave it as the grade on the names of some photos from Brimham Rocks (I can't recall if they were nominated as E0 initially). They were of the Smartie Tube. It seemed appropriate. You'd never give them a climbing grade but it looks like a hell of a struggle.

In earlier times I guess we'd have just called them VDiff. But then nobody would have bothered with them. E0 sounds like something to aspire to, except once you're there you'll wonder. E9 climbers can struggle on E0s. VDiff leaders may sail up them. They're the ultimate equaliser in climbing - the grade that isn't a number.

Well, that's my line, anyway.

Charles
bomb a left upon the fascists on 19 Aug 2002 - modem-937.ballistic.dialup.pol.co.uk [webcacheM08b.cache.pol.co.uk]
In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC Editor:

Ah, right.








You what?
Chris Fryer - on 19 Aug 2002
In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC Editor: I thought that you did it as a windup. The smatrie fube should, if anything, get a caving grade as it doesnt actually gain any height.
Dave Collier on 19 Aug 2002 - pc-62-31-9-183-bf.blueyonder.co.uk [194.117.133.90]
In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC Editor:

Indeed, I remeber failing on a sandstone off width climb in Kent filled with slippery moss and prickly plants and graded 2b. In fact it was a prime example of an E0. E0 2b (minus 3 stars).
captain paranoia - on 19 Aug 2002
In reply to mark s:

Yeah, and my best trad lead to date is E-4. But I've seconded E-2. All clear now?
Mark Stevenson - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC Editor:
Inspired application of the E0 grade :)
This use is actually far more useful in many ways than Fiends original concept. Perfect for all these ungradable climbs that deserve recognition.

Mark
Martin Brierley on 20 Aug 2002 - 130.246.240.41 [wwwcache3.rl.ac.uk]
In reply to Mark Stevenson:

Isn't that what XS used to be?
Woker on 20 Aug 2002 - host152.argonaut.com
In reply to Fiend:
Sorry to point this out fiend but in solving one problem you have created two more, namely the gaps between HVS and E0 and also between E0 and E1. This division you talk of occurs between all the grades... For instance on Grit it is quite common to find it between VDiff and S or S and HS or even HS and VS, as the grades were pushed up in these grade bands on grit. However it still exists between all the grades...
North East Nick on 20 Aug 2002 - modem-1331.rhino.dialup.pol.co.uk [webcacheB10a.cache.pol.co.uk]
In reply to Martin Brierley: According to my ancient froggatt guide (30 + years old) XS covers pretty much anything from E2 upwards, with HVS takeing in E1 low E2. At least thats how it seems anyway..
Martin Brierley on 20 Aug 2002 - 130.246.240.41 [wwwcache3.rl.ac.uk]
In reply to North East Nick:

so in effect, E0 is just making the same climbs easier with time?
North East Nick on 20 Aug 2002 - modem-1331.rhino.dialup.pol.co.uk [webcacheB10a.cache.pol.co.uk]
In reply to Martin Brierley: Errm, dunno, but HVS used to cover a hell of a lot of ground, you can see why they introduced E grades.
Adam Lincoln - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to Fiend:

Pah, dont think so!
North East Nick on 20 Aug 2002 - modem-1331.rhino.dialup.pol.co.uk [webcacheB10a.cache.pol.co.uk]
Check out the three pebble slab entry in the rockfax database for froggatt
Bob on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to North East Nick:

E grades were not introduced to split HVS, they were introduced to differentiate between extremes like Astra and Footless Crow which both used to get XS.

Pete Botteril introduced the system in around 1975 or so.

Also there are some routes that have changed grade due to holds breaking off, polish etc. The others were probably mis-graded though grade creep has had its way.

Bob
steve unregistered on 20 Aug 2002 - dyn042165.shef.ac.uk [vampire.shef.ac.uk]
In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC Editor:
> (In reply to mark s)
>
> In earlier times I guess we'd have just called them VDiff.

Nice - but I thought that was what HVDiff was for - routes always to be avoided.

Tyler - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to Fiend: How many times do we have to throught this: if it is slightly harder than HVS its E1 if it is slightly easiers than E1 its HVS. Where would you draw tha line, slightly harder than E0 = E0.1?

On the other hand this could be the most long lasting troll we've had.....
Martin Brierley on 20 Aug 2002 - 130.246.240.41 [wwwcache3.rl.ac.uk]
In reply to Tyler:

No, JCT is surely the longest lasting troll.
Fiend on 20 Aug 2002 - 213-48-74-155.bra.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk [cache-har.cableinet.co.uk]
In reply to Tyler: I have already refuted that criticism repeatedly in one of those threads linked above (the second one, I think).
Tom, UKC News Editor - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to Fiend:

How about E5 and a half? I'd say the problem occurs at whatever grade you're pushing. Have you not got a bit carried away?
John Gillott - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:

Personally (and this is not because it is at my limit) I think that E2 is a wide grade, on peak grit at least (go look at the graded list in PGE). Conversely, E3 is pretty compact.

Having said that, and I hate to say this, but Fiend's argument does need knocking down properly, which we haven't quite done yet. Last time we blasted away at this, Mike Whittaker (who ought to know a bit about it given his cataloguing efforts) came to his defence with the argument that the VS-E1 range (I think that was it) ought really to be four grades not three. I'm sure it's wrong, but it's a tricky argument to defeat, and no doubt time consuming to do so.

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