UKC

hello

has anyone read Colin Wells' article about winter epics in April's Climb? I thought it was very amusing to the point of making me laugh out loud (I think it was the bit about the somersaulting)... but there was a little article within it about men and women and relative risk, in which a study said that men seemed to have something like three times more accidents in winter in the mountains than women (the statistics included adjustments for the fact that there are more men in the hills in winter). I just thought it was interesting, particularly in relation to the comments about men and women driving and the relative number of accidents, on this thread: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=232015

anyone else read the article? I haven't bought a climbing magazine in a while and that article was definitely worth the cover price for me.

In reply to CJD:

As you have so much time on your hand posting on UKC, could you please type out the whole article for people who don't subscribe to Climb?

In reply to Norrie Muir:

it would appear that you've posted more this morning than I have norrie.

email me your address and I'll post the magazine to you if you like.

In reply to CJD:

'a study said that men seemed to have something like three times more accidents in winter in the mountains than women'

Was this pro-rata the number of hours spent in the mountains?

In reply to Anonymous:

yes, I think they'd balanced it all out properly - I'll have to check this evening though. They said that women had more accidents whilst summer hillwalking though.

In reply to CJD:

Thats no good we all want to read it, and that tight bugger could buy one, I cant get it out here in Spain

In reply to CJD:

my hypothesis is that women put themselves in greater danger due to the elaborate and 'off the between track' lengths they have to go to to wee

i've spent an amusing few hours in the pasts reading through MRT accident reports - the Ogwen team was once called out to a woman who had gone behind a rock and trod in a hole and broke her ankle

In reply to CJD:

Yes I read it - excellent article. One factor I did recognise re the sex difference data is that of blokes tending to 'press on regardless' in obviously dodgy situations. Most blokes* don't want to be the first one to say 'This is too risky - let's sack it'.

* Not including me - my judgment is of course always 100% objective and unbiassed by any sort of machismo

In reply to rich:

ha ha, brilliant!

In reply to rich & CJD: My mrs has had just such an accident when we were out walking over here on a visit some years ago. She ALWAYS remembers to go the loo BEFORE we set off for a walk these days.

In reply to CJD:

It is OK, I'll wait until someone sells the entire back issues of that magazine for 50p.

In reply to Norrie Muir:

okay. The offer's there, though.

In reply to CJD:
I agree - I thought this was the funniest thing I've seen in the climbing comics for a while. It reminded me very much of the kind of self-deprecating pieces Steve Ashton used to do so well.

In reply to CJD: If its free postage, can I have it please?

In reply to Jimmy D:

For me, now, "Time to bale!" is set in stone. No discussion.

One brilliant British Alpinist (won't embarrass him but, believe me, he was as good as they came) once said to his mate in the Himalaya, "We're going down." And 'down' was a looooong way. His comment to me, many years afterwards, was, "There was no way X (his mate) was going to say 'down'. If I hadn't said it, we'd both have climbed on until we died."

Sobering stuff.

Mick

In reply to CJD: Interestingly someone once said to me "Don't be a lone woman in a group with three or four blokes in the hills." Apart from the extreme unlikelihood of my ever being a woman in a group of blokes anywhere, their point was that the general testosterone-fuelled decision making process of the guys was even more skewed by the presence of a female.

Can't imagine it ever happening myself...

In reply to CJD:

That article sounds fascinating. I can think of ways to account for the more accidents happening to men in winter bit, but what on earth is behind the more accidents to women in summer??? Unless it really is due to the search for discreet peeing places...

In reply to gingerkate:We'd need more info on the type of the accidents that women suffer in summertime .....

In reply to Tiggs:
We definitely do. Lots more info. Mind you, if we are prone to peeing accidents you'd not expect it to be seasonal :oS

In reply to AdrianC:

ha haaaa, I understand that sentiment oh so very well

In reply to CJD: I missed this thread first time around! Thanks for pointing me to it

In reply to AdrianC:
Hmmm. I can't say I've ever found this.

It's great climbing with a female partner, but it's unfair to suggest that all men are irratonal testosterone-fuelled headcases. When it comes to hillwalking and Alpinism I'm often the only woman in a team of men. Three years ago for example it was me and seven blokes in Saas, and I had a great time (thanks guys!)
There has been the odd occasion when I've clashed with a bloke and I've thought it was gender-related but it's rare and I expect I'd clash with just as many women.
Usually people treat my opinions with respect. On the few occasions that I can think of when I've said "I think the safest thing to do at this point is bale out (or stop and bivvy here)" I've been able to give logical reasons and they've been listened to.

In reply to Alison Stockwell:

Same here - I've been the only woman hundreds of times. If anything, I think it moderates things, as blokes can bail out or slow down or miss out scary bits in the guise of "looking after the woman".

In reply to tlm:


Lol! Not when they're with me they can't. Blokes are not allowed to blame me for their own perceived shortcomings.

But I know what you mean.

In reply to CJD: I was interested in your reference to driving, from what I what I remember of the article, men have more accidents even taking into account the fact that there are more men in the hills in winter, but with driving women have more accidents per 1,000,000 miles travelled than men, just fewer overall as women on average do not do as many miles.

Not disagreement, but maybe different issues.

In reply to Nick B not logged on:
I'm not sure about that one, but I thought it was the case that far more accidents by women are minor. Shunts in the car-park; that sort of thing. Whereas accidents involving men are statistically more serious in nature.

In reply to Alison Stockwell:

which I suppose would mirror the statistics about women having more hillwalking accidents whilst men have more climbing accidents, perhaps...?

In reply to CJD:

So how many more males are out there per female did you say? They are probably all fighting over her which results in the statistical anomalies

In reply to nz Cragrat:

ha ha, it's almost inevitable. I know that I for one cut rather a fine dash whilst out on the hills, in my mildly rancid (okay, skip the 'mildly') goretex, evil helly, muddy salopettes and comedy hair. I have to walk extra fast just to shake off the hordes of suitors.

no, really.

In reply to CJD:

>I have to walk extra fast just to shake off the hordes of suitors.

LOL, just stroll, let them hang on your tail while you explain to them you are looking for a special man to accompany you on your exploits and most of them are just not up to the mark.