UKC

Toothless ascender advice needed

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 jamestheyip 09 Apr 2007
I'm doing some basic aid climbing practices with my 10.5mm dynamic rope. Since the rope is normally used for sport climbing I'm trying to avoid using standard Jumars/mini ascenders with teeth to avoid sheath damage. Besides I won't carry them for Alpine routes (and want to save 60quid!).
The question is which 'toothless' device and system do you find most convienent for cleaning a pitch? I once attached myself to the rope via a Bachmann knot to the chest harness and a Shunt attached to both an aider and my belay loop. The Bachmann didn't really work as the prussick tends to rub against the rock on non vertical places and wear out quickly. Besides it is very slow.
I was told that a Shunt (upper point to chest harness) and a Grigri (lower point to belay loop) is the standaerd practice for climbing centre route setters. I will try that next time. Question is where will you attach the aider to? Will you have one for each point or clip both at the top (Frog system)?
I guess without proper Jumars it will be harder to clean gear as you can't jump over runners. I just unclip the quickdraw and reclip it below my upper ascender.
 GarethSL 09 Apr 2007
In reply to jamestheyip: prussiks my friend all you need, ultra light and super cheap, just remember the rule always three!
OP jamestheyip 09 Apr 2007
In reply to Gaz lord: Prussicks are good for emergency use but I'm thinking of short multi-pitch aid climbling routes. (Where Jumars are normally used but I want a 'toothless' subsitude) Have climbed a 30m overhang on 2 Prussicks not sure if I want to do it again!
erika 10 Apr 2007
In reply to jamestheyip: I climbed up a vertical fixed rope to the top of a tree, maybe 20 feet, last weekend and it took forever compared to the petzl handheld asscenders and was much more tireing.

Try looking around Arberist (tree climbing) websites, the tend to have specialist gear that could work for you.
OP jamestheyip 10 Apr 2007
In reply to erika: Thanks for yor info but this is still a 'toothed' ascender like Jumars. They work by biting onto the sheath of the rope and are bulky.
OP jamestheyip 10 Apr 2007
In reply to erika: Sorry I didn't read the detail. This ascender does look like it does not work by sharp teeth. I'll have a look when I decide I need a pair of proper ascenders in the future.
 wizz walker 10 Apr 2007
In reply to jamestheyip:
> I'm doing some basic aid climbing practices with my 10.5mm dynamic rope. Since the rope is normally used for sport climbing I'm trying to avoid using standard Jumars/mini ascenders with teeth to avoid sheath damage. Besides I won't carry them for Alpine routes (and want to save 60quid!).
> The question is which 'toothless' device and system do you find most convienent for cleaning a pitch? I once attached myself to the rope via a Bachmann knot to the chest harness and a Shunt attached to both an aider and my belay loop. The Bachmann didn't really work as the prussick tends to rub against the rock on non vertical places and wear out quickly. Besides it is very slow.
> I was told that a Shunt (upper point to chest harness) and a Grigri (lower point to belay loop) is the standaerd practice for climbing centre route setters. I will try that next time. Question is where will you attach the aider to? Will you have one for each point or clip both at the top (Frog system)?
> I guess without proper Jumars it will be harder to clean gear as you can't jump over runners. I just unclip the quickdraw and reclip it below my upper ascender.



Two shunts?
One on a long cowstail attatched to the belay loop on your harness, use a large HMS krab as a handle on the shunt & also clip an etrier to it.

Loop a sling around your shoulders (improvised chest harness, bra stylee!) & clip to another shunt, either direct or on a short sling.
You can move through runners quite quickly with this setup.
Good luck.
OP jamestheyip 11 Apr 2007
In reply to wizz walker: Thanks I'll try it next time. There seems to be many different ways to attach the etrier (aider). Some people attach it on the top ascender some people at the bottom some both. Maybe I'll need to find a bridge to test the most efficient method.
 riddle 11 Apr 2007
In reply to jamestheyip: i have worked for a long time as a rope access technician. toothed cams dont damage rope when used with static loading, ie. ascending, the damage occurs if a shock load accours the sheath is stripped at around 8kn(not much energy, considering we can create 22kn). Surely a shunt and grigri is way heavier than a handled jumar and a croll.
the jumar can also be used to help with hauling.
Thats just my view geezer, i am more rope access than climber.
good luck,
 riddle 11 Apr 2007
In reply to jamestheyip: i have worked for a long time as a rope access technician. toothed cams dont damage rope when used with static loading, ie. ascending, the damage occurs if a shock load accours the sheath is stripped at around 8kn(not much energy, considering we can create 22kn). Surely a shunt and grigri is way heavier than a handled jumar and a croll.
the jumar can also be used to help with hauling.
Thats just my view geezer, i am more rope access than climber.
good luck,
 fivestar 11 Apr 2007
In reply to jamestheyip:

Hello-

If you decide you're happy with what riddle thinks about tooted ascenders check out BD's new ones.

http://www.bdel.com/gear/nforce.php

I haven't seen them in the UK yet, but they look pretty cool.

Cheers

James
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