This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
I've had a new pair of Nepal Extreme Evo that I had to send back after only a few days of use because they leaked. Also in the past I've had a pair of Karrimor walking boots which began to leak after about a year (but outside the guarantee). I wonder if I'm just unlucky or others find similar problems with gore tex linings?
In reply to Mike Kelly:
possibly just unlucky.
Had 2 pairs Salomon boots over last 12 years with no leaks at all.
possibly just unlucky.
Had 2 pairs Salomon boots over last 12 years with no leaks at all.
In reply to Mike Kelly: i always wondered if the gtx linings were stitched in place, if so then they arnt taped so would leak easilly failing that you may just have sweaty feet:P
In reply to Gaz lord: I do have sweaty feet but these boots definitely leaked. The shop sent them back and they've now offered to replace them so they must have been faulty.
In reply to Mike Kelly: I personally think the concept of goretex in boots is silly.. there is so much flexing that the material can't last long. you don't get a very long guarantee on a goretex cag which is just sort of draped around the body.
Also you tend to get bits of grit etc in boots which will puncture the membrane.
PPS. Can lead to even sweatier feet too.
Also you tend to get bits of grit etc in boots which will puncture the membrane.
PPS. Can lead to even sweatier feet too.
In reply to Mike Kelly: fair enough
In reply to earlsdonhammer: What sort of boots would you recommend for winter climbing then?
In reply to Mike Kelly:
Mine always have done, although after a few years the membrane tends to suffer wear and tear and become ineffective. My winter boots are 3 yrs old and still fine. My general boots are about 2yrs old, no problems. The ones I had before that, I had for about 5yrs before they started leaking significantly.
Mine always have done, although after a few years the membrane tends to suffer wear and tear and become ineffective. My winter boots are 3 yrs old and still fine. My general boots are about 2yrs old, no problems. The ones I had before that, I had for about 5yrs before they started leaking significantly.
In reply to Caralynr: I think it's a question of how long a decent pair of boots should last you. I know that depends on how much usage they get but when you're paying a couple of hundred pounds surely the lining should last the life of the boot?
In reply to everyone:
Gore wouldn't allow a GoreTex membrane to be stitched, and not taped... so yes it is totally waterproof. If it's not, then there may be a fault (it is known to happen, Gore, eVent, Precip, Membrain, Sympatex, Drilite etc, can all come off the production line faulty), but they are the exception not the rule.
Also bear in mind there's a huge hole in the boot where you put your foot. Water will easily enter through here, even when your foot is inside, and you have you gaiters on over the outside.
Yes, it's true. GoreTex has a lifespan, somewhat shorter than that of a full grain leather boot like the SL. However try and find a GoreTex boot which weighs the same as an SL, and you may have to look at some very big B3 boots. Also... your SL is not actually waterproof. By the very definition of waterproof leather, is only water resistant. You can make you leather boots even more water resistant, by caring for them properly, and treating them with something like G-Wax. However they will never be as waterproof as a GoreTex boot.
As for breathability... well it's true that a GoreTex boot will always have a maximum breathability, due to there being a layer of what is basically plumbers tape (PTFE) in the way. However that doesn't mean that non Gore boots are all more breathable. Big thick leather boots, may or may not be just leather and lining. There will possibly be some sponge, and maybe some other materials between the inside and the outside of the boot. All this extra material decreases breathability.
If you're looking for a totally waterproof boot, then get one with a membrane, but don't expect it to last too long, especially if you want lightweight boots. If you're looking for longevity then look at big heavy leather boots. And if you want both... then wait about 15 more years, until some new developments come through, which will be super-lightweight, highly-breathable, totally-waterproof, and amazingly-durable, because at the moment, it's pie-in-the-sky.
Gore wouldn't allow a GoreTex membrane to be stitched, and not taped... so yes it is totally waterproof. If it's not, then there may be a fault (it is known to happen, Gore, eVent, Precip, Membrain, Sympatex, Drilite etc, can all come off the production line faulty), but they are the exception not the rule.
Also bear in mind there's a huge hole in the boot where you put your foot. Water will easily enter through here, even when your foot is inside, and you have you gaiters on over the outside.
Yes, it's true. GoreTex has a lifespan, somewhat shorter than that of a full grain leather boot like the SL. However try and find a GoreTex boot which weighs the same as an SL, and you may have to look at some very big B3 boots. Also... your SL is not actually waterproof. By the very definition of waterproof leather, is only water resistant. You can make you leather boots even more water resistant, by caring for them properly, and treating them with something like G-Wax. However they will never be as waterproof as a GoreTex boot.
As for breathability... well it's true that a GoreTex boot will always have a maximum breathability, due to there being a layer of what is basically plumbers tape (PTFE) in the way. However that doesn't mean that non Gore boots are all more breathable. Big thick leather boots, may or may not be just leather and lining. There will possibly be some sponge, and maybe some other materials between the inside and the outside of the boot. All this extra material decreases breathability.
If you're looking for a totally waterproof boot, then get one with a membrane, but don't expect it to last too long, especially if you want lightweight boots. If you're looking for longevity then look at big heavy leather boots. And if you want both... then wait about 15 more years, until some new developments come through, which will be super-lightweight, highly-breathable, totally-waterproof, and amazingly-durable, because at the moment, it's pie-in-the-sky.
In reply to Mike Kelly:
Leather ones like my Salomon Guide 9s work well. People had been winter climbing for years before gore-tex was invented, after all. For winter climbing, support from the boot is more important than supposed waterproofness. A good leather boot will give you the necessary support and be more than adequately waterproof given a small amount of TLC.
In reply to withey:
Wellingtons would fit the bill for that. They have drawbacks in other respects, though! Seriously, though, I don't get this obessession with 100% waterproofness. If the conditions are such that wet feet are likely to be a danger then it's likely to be cold enough to need a decent supportive boot anyway - which means leather in my book, and that should be plenty waterproof enough to deal with such liquid water as you are likely to find. Lightweight fabric boots are great for warmer conditions but then wet feet are less likely to be a serious issue when its warmer - uncomfortable yes, but not life-threatening.
This article on outdoorsmagic.com: http://tinyurl.com/3ahya3 suggests that a gore-tex boot lining might be good for no more than 500km of walking. Plenty of people say that gore-tex lined boots are actually sweatier than unlined ones.
For myself, I've never owned or felt the need to own gore-tex lined boots, although it seems to be increasingly difficult to get boots without these days.
> (In reply to earlsdonhammer) What sort of boots would you recommend for winter climbing then?
Leather ones like my Salomon Guide 9s work well. People had been winter climbing for years before gore-tex was invented, after all. For winter climbing, support from the boot is more important than supposed waterproofness. A good leather boot will give you the necessary support and be more than adequately waterproof given a small amount of TLC.
In reply to withey:
> If you're looking for a totally waterproof boot
Wellingtons would fit the bill for that. They have drawbacks in other respects, though! Seriously, though, I don't get this obessession with 100% waterproofness. If the conditions are such that wet feet are likely to be a danger then it's likely to be cold enough to need a decent supportive boot anyway - which means leather in my book, and that should be plenty waterproof enough to deal with such liquid water as you are likely to find. Lightweight fabric boots are great for warmer conditions but then wet feet are less likely to be a serious issue when its warmer - uncomfortable yes, but not life-threatening.
This article on outdoorsmagic.com: http://tinyurl.com/3ahya3 suggests that a gore-tex boot lining might be good for no more than 500km of walking. Plenty of people say that gore-tex lined boots are actually sweatier than unlined ones.
For myself, I've never owned or felt the need to own gore-tex lined boots, although it seems to be increasingly difficult to get boots without these days.
In reply to Martin W:
Indeed.
I have just bought a pair of Scarpa SL, the only boot of that type I could get wide enough (the BXX fitting).
Plenty of previous reviews comment on the quality and waterproofness of the previous non-goretex model. Many comments saying how good to find a quality boot without a goretex lining, cant see any reviews suggesting a goretex lining is a good idea.
So what have scarpa done on the latest model, yep, fit a goretex lining. Guess the goretex might appeal to a few people who dont know any better.
> For myself, I've never owned or felt the need to own gore-tex lined boots, although it seems to be increasingly difficult to get boots without these days.
Indeed.
I have just bought a pair of Scarpa SL, the only boot of that type I could get wide enough (the BXX fitting).
Plenty of previous reviews comment on the quality and waterproofness of the previous non-goretex model. Many comments saying how good to find a quality boot without a goretex lining, cant see any reviews suggesting a goretex lining is a good idea.
So what have scarpa done on the latest model, yep, fit a goretex lining. Guess the goretex might appeal to a few people who dont know any better.
In reply to srnet: I've had boots with and boots without Goretex linings. I've not found either to be noticeably more breathable or waterproof than the other. When buying boots I don't give a toss whether or not they have a Goretex liner, just whether they fit my feet.
Harry.
Harry.
In reply to Mike Kelly:
my goretex lined trainers lasted 3 years without leaking, being worn day in and day out, and even then they only started leaking through the holes in teh sole rather than the goretex membrane
my goretex lined trainers lasted 3 years without leaking, being worn day in and day out, and even then they only started leaking through the holes in teh sole rather than the goretex membrane
In reply to Mike Kelly: I've had a few pairs of goretex lined winter boots and have never had a problem with the linings, despite heavy use. Helps if you waer gaiters to keep the crap out, though. Even if the linings do give way eventually, most winter boots should still be reasonably waterproof.
In reply to harry1969:
Fit is the most important thing for sure.
But experience with previous Goretex lined boots means I would much prefer shoesboots without the Goretex lining.
I have a pair of Goretex lined shoes on as I type, by the end of the day my feet will be hot sweaty and smelly. That does not happen to the same degree when I am wearing my other non-Goretex shoes.
Fit is the most important thing for sure.
But experience with previous Goretex lined boots means I would much prefer shoesboots without the Goretex lining.
I have a pair of Goretex lined shoes on as I type, by the end of the day my feet will be hot sweaty and smelly. That does not happen to the same degree when I am wearing my other non-Goretex shoes.
In reply to srnet:
Coincidence: that's my general hillwaking boot of choice, too.
Are you sure? It doesn't say it's gore-tex lined on the Scarpa UK web site: http://www.scarpa.co.uk/Products/Product.asp?ProductId=35
> (In reply to Martin W)
>
> I have just bought a pair of Scarpa SL, the only boot of that type I could get wide enough (the BXX fitting).
>
> I have just bought a pair of Scarpa SL, the only boot of that type I could get wide enough (the BXX fitting).
Coincidence: that's my general hillwaking boot of choice, too.
> ....what have scarpa done on the latest model, yep, fit a goretex lining.
Are you sure? It doesn't say it's gore-tex lined on the Scarpa UK web site: http://www.scarpa.co.uk/Products/Product.asp?ProductId=35
In reply to Martin W:
Got me thinking there, I am sure the man in shop said they had introduced it, I remember discussing how much I disliked the things, goretex linings that is.
Got me thinking there, I am sure the man in shop said they had introduced it, I remember discussing how much I disliked the things, goretex linings that is.
In reply to Mike Kelly: had a pair of ksb's for 4 years, they have leaked for last 2 years, but still better than leather stuff.
In reply to Mike Kelly: They work at keeping you feet dry from puddles and stuff. But you will sweat...alot!
In reply to Mike Kelly: ive had gortex boots before and have them now. they are totally waterproof.
In reply to tonanf:
I have had several pairs of Goretex lined boots, and they were indeed waterproof when first bought.
However in all the Goretex boots I have owned well before I retired the boots because of worn soles or the structure of the boot having gone all floppy, they had started to leak like sieves.
Dunno exactly but my impression is that goretex linings break down (and leak) at well under half the useful life of the boot.
> (In reply to Mike Kelly) ive had gortex boots before and have them now. they are totally waterproof.
I have had several pairs of Goretex lined boots, and they were indeed waterproof when first bought.
However in all the Goretex boots I have owned well before I retired the boots because of worn soles or the structure of the boot having gone all floppy, they had started to leak like sieves.
Dunno exactly but my impression is that goretex linings break down (and leak) at well under half the useful life of the boot.
In reply to Mike Kelly: There is a lot of bollox on this thread isn't there?
IIRC gore tex boot liners have a life that is measured in hours. small bits of grit & sand ingress through the liner/upper and shred the membrane. Fundamentally flawed concept IMO.
Buy decent leather boots, apply treatment and feed regularly.
Cheers
LD
IIRC gore tex boot liners have a life that is measured in hours. small bits of grit & sand ingress through the liner/upper and shred the membrane. Fundamentally flawed concept IMO.
Buy decent leather boots, apply treatment and feed regularly.
Cheers
LD
In reply to srnet: Scarpa do use gore-tex in a lot of their boots now, but I think the SL is one they still don't. I believe that if a boot has a gore-tex lining then there will be a tag of some kind on the boot saying so - I think Gore insist on that.
In reply to Mike Kelly:
Gore-tex linings in boots are superb in my experience. I've had a pair of boots about five years still going strong (although sole is almost worn out), another set (winter boots) for four years, also going strong (but with less use).
M
Gore-tex linings in boots are superb in my experience. I've had a pair of boots about five years still going strong (although sole is almost worn out), another set (winter boots) for four years, also going strong (but with less use).
M
In reply to Mike Kelly:
In the short term, they're waterproof but sweaty.
In the medium term (maybe 6 months, depending how often you wear them) the Goretex stops working - it gets dirty and you can't get at it to clean it, it also gets holes in. At this point, it's down to the quality of the rest of the boot as to whether it's still waterproof. So something like KSBs, they will leak. But a quality one-piece leather outer that is looked after, will perform as well as any leather boot within a lining.
Another issue with boots which rely entirely on the Goretex for their waterproofing. Even when new, and the Goretex is doing its job, there's a tendency for the water to soak through the outer, meet the Goretex, wick up to the top of the boot, and then down the inside.
In short, Goretex linings don't work, and the waterproofness of the boot depends almost entirely ion the waterproofness of the boot itself.
In the short term, they're waterproof but sweaty.
In the medium term (maybe 6 months, depending how often you wear them) the Goretex stops working - it gets dirty and you can't get at it to clean it, it also gets holes in. At this point, it's down to the quality of the rest of the boot as to whether it's still waterproof. So something like KSBs, they will leak. But a quality one-piece leather outer that is looked after, will perform as well as any leather boot within a lining.
Another issue with boots which rely entirely on the Goretex for their waterproofing. Even when new, and the Goretex is doing its job, there's a tendency for the water to soak through the outer, meet the Goretex, wick up to the top of the boot, and then down the inside.
In short, Goretex linings don't work, and the waterproofness of the boot depends almost entirely ion the waterproofness of the boot itself.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
So how come mine have been working for years then?
M
>
> In short, Goretex linings don't work, and the waterproofness of the boot depends almost entirely ion the waterproofness of the boot itself.
> In short, Goretex linings don't work, and the waterproofness of the boot depends almost entirely ion the waterproofness of the boot itself.
So how come mine have been working for years then?
M
In reply to Mike Kelly:
They are pretty good!
I keep 'em clean by sluicing them out in a basin of water which probably helps.
Matt
They are pretty good!
I keep 'em clean by sluicing them out in a basin of water which probably helps.
Matt
In reply to Mike Kelly: Not really, it is really all about marketing. It has got to the point now where there isn't enough choice in the market as people expect to see GTX in everything.
Personally I hate having GTX in boots/trainers - just increases the sweatiness. In most cases I don't mind getting my feet wet a bit if they are going to dry quickly. The obvious exception being winter boots when I would rather have some sort of leather boot that was water resistant.
Personally I hate having GTX in boots/trainers - just increases the sweatiness. In most cases I don't mind getting my feet wet a bit if they are going to dry quickly. The obvious exception being winter boots when I would rather have some sort of leather boot that was water resistant.
In reply to Mike Kelly:
I have to say though, the comfiest light trekking boots I ever had were Salamon X-Trails which had no waterproof lining in them. If your feet got wet, they got wet, but dried out pronto.
Would obviously only wear em in summer though!
M
I have to say though, the comfiest light trekking boots I ever had were Salamon X-Trails which had no waterproof lining in them. If your feet got wet, they got wet, but dried out pronto.
Would obviously only wear em in summer though!
M
In reply to Lurking Dave: I've worn out 2 pairs of leather (Gore-Tex lined) Brasher walking boots. I've used them on long fell walks in very wet conditions, and across the Pennine moors (pretty good test conditions). Over about four years, they've never let in any noticeable water (Gore-Tex gaiters were used when necessary). I've worn them on warm summer days as well and don't notice any particular problem with sweatiness. The same applies to the Meindl ones I have now.
I did once try a pair of quality leather boots without Gore-Tex lining (but with supposedly waterproof leather) and my feet were soaking wet after less than a mile of walking across wet fields of long grass (the best test of waterproofing IMO - standing in a puddle doesn't test boots properly!).
I have found in similar discussions, that some people seem to be less sensitive to walking with damp feet - I REALLY don't like it!
I did once try a pair of quality leather boots without Gore-Tex lining (but with supposedly waterproof leather) and my feet were soaking wet after less than a mile of walking across wet fields of long grass (the best test of waterproofing IMO - standing in a puddle doesn't test boots properly!).
I have found in similar discussions, that some people seem to be less sensitive to walking with damp feet - I REALLY don't like it!
In reply to Simon Caldwell et al:
First up. The SL is not a GTX boot. The Ranger does come in GTX and non-GTX versions, but the SL comes in non-GTX only.
As for non GTX boots, there are lots. Really. Lots and lots.
Wide boots, look at Aku (Italian manufacturer), and Alt-Berg (British designed and made, also made in Italy). Aku have generally wide forfoots, without being too high volume. Alt-Berg have 5 different width fittings, for every boot, in every size. They will also custom make you a pair if you're super weird.
Your feet will sweat in any boots. Much of the sweat removal is through your socks, so try different (thinner) socks. Leather is not-nec. more breathable than GTX. It depends how you treat it.
Cleaning GTX is simple. Make up a solution of your Grangers Wash-in cleaner, and pour it INTO your boots. Leave them overnight, and pour out. Works wonders on any boot, even non-GTX.
Water will seep into the outer material of any boots. Again, it depends how you treat it. Keep them clean (like properly clean, use a footwear cleaner), and treat them with something to improve the DWR, and the water won't soak in as quickly. Yes... if the botos is saturated, then capillary action will draw moisture down to your foot, through the big hole, but that happen on leather boots, as well as GTX boots.
If you don't like GTX, then don't buy it, but for some people it's fine. I know people who only wear Buffalo clothing, "because nothing else works"!
Lastly, if you buy a crap, cheap pair of walking boots, then you will def get value for money. Little money, little value!
First up. The SL is not a GTX boot. The Ranger does come in GTX and non-GTX versions, but the SL comes in non-GTX only.
As for non GTX boots, there are lots. Really. Lots and lots.
Wide boots, look at Aku (Italian manufacturer), and Alt-Berg (British designed and made, also made in Italy). Aku have generally wide forfoots, without being too high volume. Alt-Berg have 5 different width fittings, for every boot, in every size. They will also custom make you a pair if you're super weird.
Your feet will sweat in any boots. Much of the sweat removal is through your socks, so try different (thinner) socks. Leather is not-nec. more breathable than GTX. It depends how you treat it.
Cleaning GTX is simple. Make up a solution of your Grangers Wash-in cleaner, and pour it INTO your boots. Leave them overnight, and pour out. Works wonders on any boot, even non-GTX.
Water will seep into the outer material of any boots. Again, it depends how you treat it. Keep them clean (like properly clean, use a footwear cleaner), and treat them with something to improve the DWR, and the water won't soak in as quickly. Yes... if the botos is saturated, then capillary action will draw moisture down to your foot, through the big hole, but that happen on leather boots, as well as GTX boots.
If you don't like GTX, then don't buy it, but for some people it's fine. I know people who only wear Buffalo clothing, "because nothing else works"!
Lastly, if you buy a crap, cheap pair of walking boots, then you will def get value for money. Little money, little value!
In reply to withey:
Pretty much what I said
I keep buying KSBs (though probably won't any more as I'm told only the name is the same), which are crap, and cheap, but fit my feet extremely well. Waterproofness isn't everything - but wet but undamaged feet, than dry feet with blisters!
> Lastly, if you buy a crap, cheap pair of walking boots, then you will def get value for money
Pretty much what I said
I keep buying KSBs (though probably won't any more as I'm told only the name is the same), which are crap, and cheap, but fit my feet extremely well. Waterproofness isn't everything - but wet but undamaged feet, than dry feet with blisters!
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
"In the medium term (maybe 6 months, depending how often you wear them) the Goretex stops working"
"But a quality one-piece leather outer that is looked after, will perform as well as any leather boot within a lining."
"In short, Goretex linings don't work,..."
That's not my experience at all (see earlier post).
"In the medium term (maybe 6 months, depending how often you wear them) the Goretex stops working"
"But a quality one-piece leather outer that is looked after, will perform as well as any leather boot within a lining."
"In short, Goretex linings don't work,..."
That's not my experience at all (see earlier post).
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Loading Notifications...