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Jordan - aged 12 - has Down's Syndrome, but that doesn't stop him from anything much. He started off on walls and boulders, and quickly graduated to bigger things. But he wasnt expecting to face a blizzard when he tackled his first Munro, Ben Vorlich, 3250' this Sunday. His wasnt the fastest ascent - in fact at 11 hours it may well be the slowest, but that doesnt take away from his achivement as one of Scotlands most determined young disabled climbers.
Read the story and pictures - and watch this space...http://www.paperclip.org.uk/kays/jordan_climbing2.htm
Read the story and pictures - and watch this space...http://www.paperclip.org.uk/kays/jordan_climbing2.htm
In reply to rob from scotland:
Nice one! Norrie should take him on as a prodigy (sp?). A munro in wellies indeed!
Nice one! Norrie should take him on as a prodigy (sp?). A munro in wellies indeed!
In reply to Will Hunt:
Yes, I'm afraid that wellies are not good for the toes on a descent. Jordan got two big blisters on his big toes to prove it, so I think a proper pair of boots might be a reasonable birthday present. Mind you, I have a bit of a track record of being pro-welly, since my expensive leather boots disintegrated into slush on a two month expedition in Papua New Guinea. But that's another story......
Yes, I'm afraid that wellies are not good for the toes on a descent. Jordan got two big blisters on his big toes to prove it, so I think a proper pair of boots might be a reasonable birthday present. Mind you, I have a bit of a track record of being pro-welly, since my expensive leather boots disintegrated into slush on a two month expedition in Papua New Guinea. But that's another story......
In reply to rob from scotland: Fantastic, inspirational... I'll spare a thought when I'm in Glencoe next week. Great to see you got the beeb mention too!
In reply to rob from scotland:
Brilliant, inspirational stuff. Great to see this reported. Well Done Jordan.
Brilliant, inspirational stuff. Great to see this reported. Well Done Jordan.
In reply to rob from scotland: What a top chap!
In reply to rob from scotland: I used to work as an instructor at Outward Bound in Fort William, and 3 or 4 times a year one particular group came along and lit up the whole centre. GDSA (Grampian Downs Syndrome Association) were the most fun and rewarding courses to run and instruct. Their carers/parents came along aswell, and it was as much for their benefit as the students. It used to amaze them how much their 'disabled' kids/adults were actually capable of. They had been used to being told that their charges were disabled and 'incapable' of certain things, and it was quite a challenge to prove them otherwise.
We used to take them climbing, kayaking/canoeing, camping/bothying, hillwalking, ropes courses; in fact almost all of the activities the 'normal' groups did.
Not only did they prove inspirational and attitude-changing for us staff, but also for their carers and students on other courses too.
Of course, we were all absolutely knackered at the end of the course!! But worth every second.
We used to take them climbing, kayaking/canoeing, camping/bothying, hillwalking, ropes courses; in fact almost all of the activities the 'normal' groups did.
Not only did they prove inspirational and attitude-changing for us staff, but also for their carers and students on other courses too.
Of course, we were all absolutely knackered at the end of the course!! But worth every second.
In reply to rob from scotland: That is awesome to see, bloody brilliant.
In reply to rob from scotland:
Well done Jordan and Leighton too, 8 years old isn't bad for a Munro, both boys have something to celibrate there.
Well done Jordan and Leighton too, 8 years old isn't bad for a Munro, both boys have something to celibrate there.
In reply to rob from scotland: err. Somebody equipped a young lad with wellington boot footwear to climb a 3,000 plus foot high Scottish mountain. The young lad was physically healthy and in a party of others including adults. He got to the top and back down without mishap.
Apart from the fact he had Downs Syndrome and probably needed jollying along a bit more than usual what is the big deal?
Young lad with wrong footwear gets up big mountain?
All very worthy but, really, yawn, why am I not bothered?
Apart from the fact he had Downs Syndrome and probably needed jollying along a bit more than usual what is the big deal?
Young lad with wrong footwear gets up big mountain?
All very worthy but, really, yawn, why am I not bothered?
In reply to Chris_Mellor: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=244952&v=1#3602380
Your reply to an earlier thread; you want to take your own advise!
Pete
Your reply to an earlier thread; you want to take your own advise!
Pete
In reply to Chris_Mellor:
> All very worthy but, really, yawn, why am I not bothered?
I don't know. Maybe you just aren't able to empathise with other people feeling happy and proud? In reply to Iain Forrest:
Well put. That's much more erudite than my "Because you're a twunt?" response would have been.
> (In reply to eroica64)
> [...]
> Maybe you just aren't able to empathise with other people feeling happy and proud?
> [...]
> Maybe you just aren't able to empathise with other people feeling happy and proud?
Well put. That's much more erudite than my "Because you're a twunt?" response would have been.
In reply to Chris_Mellor:
Wellies have been accepted mountain footwear for many years...I remember taking to a professional Welsh shepherd who spent his whole life on the hills and couldn't figure out why hikers didnt wear them too, as they give fair grip, are warm and cosy, and don't get soaked in the wet grass and heather. As a potholer I found wellies very acceptable footwear on long expeditions, because they are light and don't rot, and yes, you can climb quite well in wellies if they fit, though they aren't very good on a steep scree descent. So why pay a small fortune for kids leather climbing boots when they grow out of them every six months?
As for the Downs Syndrome, it's not that long ago that lads like Jordan were put in institutions like nice little cabbages in rows, to rot away their lives. What a horrible waste of human potential. But DS is still a serious disability, (if much misunderstood) so for Jordan climbing a Munro is as big an acievement as for you or I to accomplish the Cuillin traverse or a decent Alpine route.
Wellies have been accepted mountain footwear for many years...I remember taking to a professional Welsh shepherd who spent his whole life on the hills and couldn't figure out why hikers didnt wear them too, as they give fair grip, are warm and cosy, and don't get soaked in the wet grass and heather. As a potholer I found wellies very acceptable footwear on long expeditions, because they are light and don't rot, and yes, you can climb quite well in wellies if they fit, though they aren't very good on a steep scree descent. So why pay a small fortune for kids leather climbing boots when they grow out of them every six months?
As for the Downs Syndrome, it's not that long ago that lads like Jordan were put in institutions like nice little cabbages in rows, to rot away their lives. What a horrible waste of human potential. But DS is still a serious disability, (if much misunderstood) so for Jordan climbing a Munro is as big an acievement as for you or I to accomplish the Cuillin traverse or a decent Alpine route.
In reply to rob from scotland:
I disagree. The scenario you describe may have been the case 40 years ago, if you refer to medical institutions that did what you describe.
Since then, people with Down's Syndrome have generally been catered for in the education system, as opposed to the medical one even before the Warnock Report of 1978 made it law.
In the seventies, my colleagues and I took teenagers and adults with Down's Syndrome Rock Climbing in Derbyshire and Wales, up Welsh 3,000ers, canoing, caving cycling etc.
It was no big deal, as long as they, like anyone else, were fit enough there was no problem. That particular syndrome does not usually present physical disabilities, so again, congrats to the lad in question, but I'm more impressed with the fact he is 12, rather than the fact he has a learning (not a physical) disability.
> (In reply to eroica64)
>
> As for the Downs Syndrome, it's not that long ago that lads like Jordan were put in institutions like nice little cabbages in rows, to rot away their lives. What a horrible waste of human potential. But DS is still a serious disability, (if much misunderstood) so for Jordan climbing a Munro is as big an acievement as for you or I to accomplish the Cuillin traverse or a decent Alpine route.
> As for the Downs Syndrome, it's not that long ago that lads like Jordan were put in institutions like nice little cabbages in rows, to rot away their lives. What a horrible waste of human potential. But DS is still a serious disability, (if much misunderstood) so for Jordan climbing a Munro is as big an acievement as for you or I to accomplish the Cuillin traverse or a decent Alpine route.
I disagree. The scenario you describe may have been the case 40 years ago, if you refer to medical institutions that did what you describe.
Since then, people with Down's Syndrome have generally been catered for in the education system, as opposed to the medical one even before the Warnock Report of 1978 made it law.
In the seventies, my colleagues and I took teenagers and adults with Down's Syndrome Rock Climbing in Derbyshire and Wales, up Welsh 3,000ers, canoing, caving cycling etc.
It was no big deal, as long as they, like anyone else, were fit enough there was no problem. That particular syndrome does not usually present physical disabilities, so again, congrats to the lad in question, but I'm more impressed with the fact he is 12, rather than the fact he has a learning (not a physical) disability.
In reply to rob from scotland: Thats one more munro than me - well done
In reply to rob from scotland:
Well done Jordan!
Well done Jordan!
In reply to Fredt: if only it was that simple a distinction! DS carries a range of increased health risks and disabilities. The life expectancy for a sample of 17,897 people with Down syndrome increased from 25 years in 1983 to 49 years in 1997. That's still very poor, isnt it? Source: http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s510389.htm
Here's why: see; http://www.ds-health.com/
30% - 50% of the individuals with Down syndrome have heart defects and 8% - 12% have gastrointestinal tract abnormalities present at birth.
Approximately 15% of youth with DS have Atlantoaxial Instability (AAI). Almost all are asymptomatic. The neurologic manifestations of symptomatic AAI include easy fatiguability, difficulties in walking, abnormal gait, neck pain, limited neck mobility, torticollis (head tilt), incoordination and clumsiness, sensory deficits, spasticity, hyperreflexia...and {other spinal cord} signs and symptoms.
Epilepsy: Studies in the last two decades have estimated the number of people with DS who have seizures to be from 5 to 10%. http://www.ds-health.com/epilepsy.htm
Studies from Europe looking at the percentage of children with DS that have CD (coeliac disease) have ranged from 7% to 16%. http://www.ds-health.com/celiac.htm
Leukemia is more common in children with DS, being seen anywhere from 10 to 30 times more often than in the general population of children.
Alopecia areata is more common in people with DS, occurring in 5 to 9% of the population (compared to 1 to 2% of the general population).
Children with Down syndrome (DS) are certainly at risk for Symptoms of Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA). In 1991, one study showed 45% had OSA
Yes things have improved greatly in the past forty years, nearly all the big institutions have closed, (mainly it must be said in the 1990's, so quite recently) but many people with DS still have very limited opportunities to take part in the mainstream of life, so there is lots of work to do.
Here's why: see; http://www.ds-health.com/
30% - 50% of the individuals with Down syndrome have heart defects and 8% - 12% have gastrointestinal tract abnormalities present at birth.
Approximately 15% of youth with DS have Atlantoaxial Instability (AAI). Almost all are asymptomatic. The neurologic manifestations of symptomatic AAI include easy fatiguability, difficulties in walking, abnormal gait, neck pain, limited neck mobility, torticollis (head tilt), incoordination and clumsiness, sensory deficits, spasticity, hyperreflexia...and {other spinal cord} signs and symptoms.
Epilepsy: Studies in the last two decades have estimated the number of people with DS who have seizures to be from 5 to 10%. http://www.ds-health.com/epilepsy.htm
Studies from Europe looking at the percentage of children with DS that have CD (coeliac disease) have ranged from 7% to 16%. http://www.ds-health.com/celiac.htm
Leukemia is more common in children with DS, being seen anywhere from 10 to 30 times more often than in the general population of children.
Alopecia areata is more common in people with DS, occurring in 5 to 9% of the population (compared to 1 to 2% of the general population).
Children with Down syndrome (DS) are certainly at risk for Symptoms of Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA). In 1991, one study showed 45% had OSA
Yes things have improved greatly in the past forty years, nearly all the big institutions have closed, (mainly it must be said in the 1990's, so quite recently) but many people with DS still have very limited opportunities to take part in the mainstream of life, so there is lots of work to do.
In reply to rob from scotland:
If the lad in question suffered from any of the disabilities that you identify that might make physical activites difficult, then that would have been a feat to overcome them.
My point is that Downs Syndrome is not a disability. It is a syndrome that may increase the liklehood of disability. So saying that his ascent was in spite of having Down's Syndrome is meaningless, whereas saying he achieved the ascent despite having a congenital heart defect is a realistic description of what he overcame.
It is perfectly possible that he did not suffer from any of the disabilities you mention. I suspect that he was as fit as any other youngster his age, otherwise any responsible parent would not have exposed him to risk.
I doubt if youngsters with Down's Syndrome have any less access to Outdoor Activities than others of their age. I would even venture to say that as the Syndrome is more prevalent in middle and upper class social groups, they would typically have better access than, for example, socially deprived children.
If the lad in question suffered from any of the disabilities that you identify that might make physical activites difficult, then that would have been a feat to overcome them.
My point is that Downs Syndrome is not a disability. It is a syndrome that may increase the liklehood of disability. So saying that his ascent was in spite of having Down's Syndrome is meaningless, whereas saying he achieved the ascent despite having a congenital heart defect is a realistic description of what he overcame.
It is perfectly possible that he did not suffer from any of the disabilities you mention. I suspect that he was as fit as any other youngster his age, otherwise any responsible parent would not have exposed him to risk.
I doubt if youngsters with Down's Syndrome have any less access to Outdoor Activities than others of their age. I would even venture to say that as the Syndrome is more prevalent in middle and upper class social groups, they would typically have better access than, for example, socially deprived children.
In reply to Fredt: "I would even venture to say that as the Syndrome is more prevalent in middle and upper class social groups, they would typically have better access than, for example, socially deprived children."
I haven't seen any evidence of this and I would be interested to know your source. All the information I have is that DS occurs randomly at about 1/1000 births across all social classes and races. Sadly a higher proportion of parents from affluent societies with access to prenatal screening choose to terminate the pregnancy - as high as 90% in the USA.
I have never met a person with DS who does not have significant physical as well as learning challenges.
Jordan's own health issues are of course confidential, as I am sure you understand.
I haven't seen any evidence of this and I would be interested to know your source. All the information I have is that DS occurs randomly at about 1/1000 births across all social classes and races. Sadly a higher proportion of parents from affluent societies with access to prenatal screening choose to terminate the pregnancy - as high as 90% in the USA.
I have never met a person with DS who does not have significant physical as well as learning challenges.
Jordan's own health issues are of course confidential, as I am sure you understand.
In reply to rob from scotland: Well done to the lad. Why is it when anyone with a 'disability' achieves something it never takes long for the negative p****k brigade to try bring them down.....
In reply to handyman:
Was he bringing Jordan down? Or was he saying that people seem to have very low expectations of people with disabilities?
People with disabilities achieve things every day of their lives. They are ordinary people, just like you and me, and it can sometimes seem a tad patronising to cheer and whoop when they do anything fairly ordinary, as though they are a performing seal...
Was he bringing Jordan down? Or was he saying that people seem to have very low expectations of people with disabilities?
People with disabilities achieve things every day of their lives. They are ordinary people, just like you and me, and it can sometimes seem a tad patronising to cheer and whoop when they do anything fairly ordinary, as though they are a performing seal...
In reply to rob from scotland:
I don't recall the source, I saw the data in the nineties during my degree. Middle and upper class families in the UK tended to delay having children, putting careers first, and the older the mother, the more liklehood of Down's Syndrome. There were research statistics that showed this.
I have met hundreds in my work. Most have learning difficulties, and most have physical disabilities, though none that would prevent them taking part in any physical activities. A minority did, mainly with heart problems.
When we stood on the summit of Snowdon, me and my mate and a dozen teenagers with Down's Syndrome, it was not special because they had overcome a disability, it was because we showed them and their families that they were the same as everyone else, and they should have the same expectations.
> (In reply to Fredt) "I would even venture to say that as the Syndrome is more prevalent in middle and upper class social groups, they would typically have better access than, for example, socially deprived children."
> I haven't seen any evidence of this and I would be interested to know your source. All the information I have is that DS occurs randomly at about 1/1000 births across all social classes and races. Sadly a higher proportion of parents from affluent societies with access to prenatal screening choose to terminate the pregnancy - as high as 90% in the USA.
> I haven't seen any evidence of this and I would be interested to know your source. All the information I have is that DS occurs randomly at about 1/1000 births across all social classes and races. Sadly a higher proportion of parents from affluent societies with access to prenatal screening choose to terminate the pregnancy - as high as 90% in the USA.
I don't recall the source, I saw the data in the nineties during my degree. Middle and upper class families in the UK tended to delay having children, putting careers first, and the older the mother, the more liklehood of Down's Syndrome. There were research statistics that showed this.
> I have never met a person with DS who does not have significant physical as well as learning challenges.
I have met hundreds in my work. Most have learning difficulties, and most have physical disabilities, though none that would prevent them taking part in any physical activities. A minority did, mainly with heart problems.
When we stood on the summit of Snowdon, me and my mate and a dozen teenagers with Down's Syndrome, it was not special because they had overcome a disability, it was because we showed them and their families that they were the same as everyone else, and they should have the same expectations.
In reply to tlm: We were simply saying well done, i doubt the OP brought this thread up to provoke a debate over how exactly Downs Syndrone is defined. Again well done to a good effort in unlikely weather conditions.
In reply to coinneach: A bit harsh, everyone has a right to their opinion, maybe it wasn't necassery to post it. It must also be said that wellies are very good footwear especially in somewhere as whet as scotland.
In reply to coinneach: The poor guy lives in Croydon, pretty crap from a Climbing POV.
In reply to rob from scotland:
Good on him. Nice to see young folk getting out in the hills. His face is an absolute picture when he's coming off the hill in the snow - doesn't look chuffed at all!
A bit disappointing to see folk trying to take something away from his achievement.
Good on him. Nice to see young folk getting out in the hills. His face is an absolute picture when he's coming off the hill in the snow - doesn't look chuffed at all!
A bit disappointing to see folk trying to take something away from his achievement.
In reply to DougG:
If it wasn't for his wellies
Where would he be
Climbing up Ben Lomond or even Bennachie.
If it wasn't for his wellies
Where would he be
Climbing up Ben Lomond or even Bennachie.
In reply to Slugain Howff:
<altogether now>
... for he would hae a dose ay the flu
Or even pluerisy
If he didnae hiv his feet
In his we-eh-lies.
<altogether now>
... for he would hae a dose ay the flu
Or even pluerisy
If he didnae hiv his feet
In his we-eh-lies.
In reply to tlm: I know from personal experience that 'normal' people have very low expectations of those of us with disabilities.It is all fine and well for you to say we are ordinary people but we are not treated as such which can affect confidence, self esteem etc so in my opinion I think it will do the lad good to have some positive recognition in his life. It seems to suit the public to call us 'normal' sometimes but not others. Not having a go just trying to explain it from a disabled persons perspective.
Kev Shields
Kev Shields
In reply to handyman:
Well said Kev.
Grew up with a disabled parent and we've had to put with a lot of negativity and 'you can't do that' nonsense. She proved 'em all wrong though.
Well said Kev.
Grew up with a disabled parent and we've had to put with a lot of negativity and 'you can't do that' nonsense. She proved 'em all wrong though.
In reply to Am Fear Liath Mor:
This is the unofficial Scottish National Anthem!: Judging from the profanity and political savvy, I think Billy is one of us!
Wellies they are wonderful, oh wellies they are swell,
Cause they keep out the water, and they keep in the smell,
And when you're sitting in a room, you can always tell,
When some bugger takes off his wellies.
If it wasnae for your wellies, where would you be?
You’d be in the hospital or infirmary,
Cause you would have a dose of the flu or even pluracy,
If you didnae have your feet in your wellies!
But when yer oot walking, in the country way about
An yer strolling over fields just like a fairmer’s herd.
And somebody shouts “Keep aff the grass,” and you think “How absurd;”
And, squelch, you find why fairmers a’ wear wellies.
There’s fishermen and firemen, there’s farmers an a’,
Men oot digging ditches an’ working in the snaw;
This country it would grind tae a halt and no’ a thing would graw
If it wasna for the workers in their wellies.
Noo Edward Heath and Wilson, they havna made a hit,
They’re ruining this country, mair than just a bit,
If they keep on the way they are goin’, we’ll all be in the sh..,
So you’d be’er get your feet in your wellies.
This is the unofficial Scottish National Anthem!: Judging from the profanity and political savvy, I think Billy is one of us!
Wellies they are wonderful, oh wellies they are swell,
Cause they keep out the water, and they keep in the smell,
And when you're sitting in a room, you can always tell,
When some bugger takes off his wellies.
If it wasnae for your wellies, where would you be?
You’d be in the hospital or infirmary,
Cause you would have a dose of the flu or even pluracy,
If you didnae have your feet in your wellies!
But when yer oot walking, in the country way about
An yer strolling over fields just like a fairmer’s herd.
And somebody shouts “Keep aff the grass,” and you think “How absurd;”
And, squelch, you find why fairmers a’ wear wellies.
There’s fishermen and firemen, there’s farmers an a’,
Men oot digging ditches an’ working in the snaw;
This country it would grind tae a halt and no’ a thing would graw
If it wasna for the workers in their wellies.
Noo Edward Heath and Wilson, they havna made a hit,
They’re ruining this country, mair than just a bit,
If they keep on the way they are goin’, we’ll all be in the sh..,
So you’d be’er get your feet in your wellies.
In reply to handyman:
Yeah - it always suprises me that just because someone has a disability, everyone around them is suprised when they manage to drive a car, go food shopping, have a child, do a bit of housework, go up a mountain etc.
Of course many disabled people do these things every day of their lives!
And of course, when ANYONE does something which is an achievement for them, then it is nice to give some positive feedback, praise etc. and maybe SOME disabled people like being feted for every little thing that they do. But SOME disabled people find it wearing to be praised for managing to make a cup of tea, change a nappy etc.
I know that people mean well - they want to DO something for a disabled person, to help them, to show that they are on their side.
And in Jordan's case, he doesn't walk up mountains every day, so a well done is in order.
So I don't mean never try to be nice to a disabled person at all!!!! I mean, treat disabled people as individuals, with their own individual strengths, weaknesses and needs. Give a person praise for something that was out of the ordinary for that person as an individual, not because they are disabled.
Just because a person has a disability, doesn't mean that they can't support and help other people around them, have their own talents, be better than me at many things and have every right to give me a patronising "well done" when I manage to make a cup of tea without spilling it...
Yeah - it always suprises me that just because someone has a disability, everyone around them is suprised when they manage to drive a car, go food shopping, have a child, do a bit of housework, go up a mountain etc.
Of course many disabled people do these things every day of their lives!
And of course, when ANYONE does something which is an achievement for them, then it is nice to give some positive feedback, praise etc. and maybe SOME disabled people like being feted for every little thing that they do. But SOME disabled people find it wearing to be praised for managing to make a cup of tea, change a nappy etc.
I know that people mean well - they want to DO something for a disabled person, to help them, to show that they are on their side.
And in Jordan's case, he doesn't walk up mountains every day, so a well done is in order.
So I don't mean never try to be nice to a disabled person at all!!!! I mean, treat disabled people as individuals, with their own individual strengths, weaknesses and needs. Give a person praise for something that was out of the ordinary for that person as an individual, not because they are disabled.
Just because a person has a disability, doesn't mean that they can't support and help other people around them, have their own talents, be better than me at many things and have every right to give me a patronising "well done" when I manage to make a cup of tea without spilling it...
In reply to tlm:
This is probably all you need to write, the rest is irrelevant to this situation as no one on here was doing anything else unless theyve gone round to his house.
> And in Jordan's case, he doesn't walk up mountains every day, so a well done is in order.
This is probably all you need to write, the rest is irrelevant to this situation as no one on here was doing anything else unless theyve gone round to his house.
In reply to tlm: I know what you mean about some being feted for every little thing and that does more harm than good. As for making tea etc I still get comments from people who are surprised that I can tie my own shoe laces. Or other classics such as "oh you do ,whatever it may be, just like a normal person".....
As a disabled person I've found that you have to somewhat forget all the good and bad things that are said to you if you want to stay in reasonable mental health....
Kev
As a disabled person I've found that you have to somewhat forget all the good and bad things that are said to you if you want to stay in reasonable mental health....
Kev
In reply to Fredt: "When we stood on the summit of Snowdon, me and my mate and a dozen teenagers with Down's Syndrome, it was not special because they had overcome a disability, it was because we showed them and their families that they were the same as everyone else, and they should have the same expectations. "
I think they knew that already, but well done to you and your friend for helping them achieve their aspirations, I bet they still remember that day....a lot of people don't have the patience it takes, many climbers are in too much of a hurry to achieve their own goals rather than helping others to achieve theirs.
I once helped push a lad in a wheelchair all the way up the Miners track on Snowdon...it was a hell of a struggle, but worth it!
I think they knew that already, but well done to you and your friend for helping them achieve their aspirations, I bet they still remember that day....a lot of people don't have the patience it takes, many climbers are in too much of a hurry to achieve their own goals rather than helping others to achieve theirs.
I once helped push a lad in a wheelchair all the way up the Miners track on Snowdon...it was a hell of a struggle, but worth it!
In reply to rob from scotland:
But the whole point of that is that they did not have aspirations; we didn't help them achieve their goals, this was not on their or thier families list of goals. - We just treated them like any other teenagers and tried to give them a good time and show them that they were as fit and able as anybody else..
Soory if I sound confrontational, I don't want to be, I just want to explain why I think Jordan has done a worthy thing, assuming it was his ambition, but not, in my opinion, worthy of BBC news, as thousands of others like him do much more difficult things every day.
> (In reply to Fredt) "When we stood on the summit of Snowdon, me and my mate and a dozen teenagers with Down's Syndrome, it was not special because they had overcome a disability, it was because we showed them and their families that they were the same as everyone else, and they should have the same expectations. "
> I think they knew that already, but well done to you and your friend for helping them achieve their aspirations, I bet they still remember that day....a lot of people don't have the patience it takes, many climbers are in too much of a hurry to achieve their own goals rather than helping others to achieve theirs.
But the whole point of that is that they did not have aspirations; we didn't help them achieve their goals, this was not on their or thier families list of goals. - We just treated them like any other teenagers and tried to give them a good time and show them that they were as fit and able as anybody else..
Soory if I sound confrontational, I don't want to be, I just want to explain why I think Jordan has done a worthy thing, assuming it was his ambition, but not, in my opinion, worthy of BBC news, as thousands of others like him do much more difficult things every day.
In reply to JoeL 90:
Blimy! No one writes things on here because they NEED to! It's just idle chit chat, which can be read, skimmed over or ignored as you choose!
If we only wrote things that we needed to, then the forums would be empty!
> This is probably all you need to write, the rest is irrelevant to this situation as no one on here was doing anything else unless theyve gone round to his house.
Blimy! No one writes things on here because they NEED to! It's just idle chit chat, which can be read, skimmed over or ignored as you choose!
If we only wrote things that we needed to, then the forums would be empty!
In reply to tlm:
Well done Jordan and Leighton. Wish I could get my own (entirely non-disabled) kids to romp up Munros like that.
Well done Jordan and Leighton. Wish I could get my own (entirely non-disabled) kids to romp up Munros like that.
In reply to rob from scotland: Yep, well done Jordan. Am certainly alot more inspired by this story than that of Ran Feinnes having his hand held up Everst/Eiger.
In reply to Fredt: It was Leighton who illustrated the BBC story, not Jordan - quite right too, after all it was his birthday! But the story as far as the BBC was concerned wasnt Leighton as such, it was the snow ruining (or otherwise) the Bank Holiday weekend...it was a weather story, not a climbing story. One climb, three stories, all worth telling in a slightly different way.
And of course this isn't about a first ascent of the Nutterhorn, it's a beginners forum, and the fourth story most relevant to beginners is, don't ever trust the Scottish weather!
If I wanted to go really off thread I could add that my daughter got offered an unconditional place at Dundee university to study fine art on Saturday...that's my biggest brag this weekend!
And of course this isn't about a first ascent of the Nutterhorn, it's a beginners forum, and the fourth story most relevant to beginners is, don't ever trust the Scottish weather!
If I wanted to go really off thread I could add that my daughter got offered an unconditional place at Dundee university to study fine art on Saturday...that's my biggest brag this weekend!
All credit to the lads for getting up there at that age in those conditions, (brings back happy memories of days out walking with my late grandfather when i was their age). I guess it just goes to show that, despite the impression given in the 'popular media' more and more these days, not all of the "play station generation" would rather be sitting in their bedroom playing computer games.
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