UKC

Some "boulder probs" are big enough and serious enough to be routes. OK if its unprotected then its a solo anyway; an extended problem if you like, but what of some of the bigger (protectable)things at Shipley and other bouldering meccas? I think of bouldering as involving one or two moves, not a 10m sequence.
Whats the biggest and most serious thing that is still generally regarded as a boulder problem?

In reply to BrianT: when most people need a rope to do it.

within reason of course.

personaly i think its all on the difficulty of the move and in what position?
how is the landing?
how high up is the crux?
but remember most of the stuff around that is of any route value will have most probably been done by now.
just look at OU EST LA SPIT E6 6b probably the shortest E6 in the country,apart from
THE BIG AIR E6 6b at stanage.a jump for a pocket and one move up?
so the answer is. . . . . . it can depend on lots of things?

In reply to BrianT: how about you would feel comforatble flling off or jumping off a boulder problem where as an extended bouler problem or micro-route you might get worried but then a route is not-fall-off-able??

In reply to BrianT:
Dunno but had a look at "not to be taken away" when i was up at stanage last and the last moves seem a fair way up and the landing not exactly fiendly. good job im not good enough to get to the top!

In reply to BrianT: If you have ever been to Dumbarton bouldering you will have noticed the huge Eagle Boulder. Round to the right is an intimidating overhanging wall. On the left of this there is an extremely overhanging black groove named Shadow. It was climbed by Andy Gallagher in '92 & still carries an E5, 6b tag.
The centre of the wall is Trick of the Vale E7 6c** (which is a good one to get scared on), also climbed by Andy in '92. Either side of these there are a few 5b problems w/out lead grades that are often ascended.Non of these problems warrant a rope to me yet to others they may seem to be micro routes. I guess it's down to the individual & the boldness they have on a personal level, although summing up...a boulder problem should be defined as something you can fall from w/out breaking every bone in your body. Drink lots of milk!!
Best Regards,
Si

In reply to Si O'Conor ( Scottish correspondent:

A boulder problem is something you use a bouldering mat or spotters on (or something you don't need to use a bouldering mat or spotters on). I've seen people jump onto bouldering mats from well over twenty feet quite happily.

In reply to Dave Collier: I'm always amazed at just how SMALL a bouldering mat looks from 20 feet up ... I've seen several people jump off a route / problem, only to miss the bouldering mat and sprain or break ankle(s) on landing.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just saying that from that height, some people will want a rope and others will be happy with a mat .... which means that we're still left with the initial problem!

IMHO it really depends on the style of the first ascent.

In reply to BrianT:

This would be a great thread for Gavin Ellis - he can rant on all day long about "flippin traverses man", claiming that traverses "over, say 15 moves long like" (e.g. Nicole's 'Dreamtime') should be given a sport grade...

This would be a relevant thread for the States where they have more big boulders. In the UK, grit/sandstone things like 'Tierdrop', 'Crescent Arete', 'Not to be taken away', er...some of those routes at Bowden with flat landings... have been reduced to boulder problems and don't deserve an E grade anymore, now that we have bouldering mats.

In reply to Si O'Conor ( Scottish correspondent:

I take it by the neighbouring 5b you mean Zig Zag. It's okay , the last tricky move is about 8 ft up but things like the BNI poblems, Pendulum and Route Royale are just sick and very rarely touched. Well out of bouldering league.

PS About a month ago came off last tricky move of Wizard Slab (the lichen was wet as it ahd been raining earlier)

Slid off, crashed though the tree and ended up on my back down and to the right of Pongo. Very very lucky not to break anything.

In reply to Dave Collier:

'I've seen people jump onto bouldering mats from well over twenty feet quite happily.'

I bet you haven't! In my experience, people DO this quite frequently, but they are seldom HAPPY about it.

In reply to john: Alternativly you could use a bouncy castle.
Yep GFoz, ZigZag is the one. Hmmm I fell in the Clyde becuase of green slippy stuff on the Sea Boulder, which gave everyone a good laugh.
Later m8,
Si

In reply to John: .. I've seen several people jump off a route / problem, only to miss the bouldering mat and sprain or
break ankle(s) on landing.

I've seen people jump off a bouldering mat and sprain an ankle

In reply to Rob S: The gritstone guidelines when I was on the guidebook committee were that it had to be 20ft to be a route, that later became 8 mts. In fact some 10 ft high boulder problems with terminal landings can be far more serious than some routes, its just your own commonsense that will keep you whole!