UKC

dont know if this has already been posted?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6916549.stm

sad.

In reply to 00spaw: yes sad.

Is it me or do they always say British climbers were ill prepared?

In reply to Fawksey: yes, it certainly does seem that way.

but is it just that they always are?

In reply to 00spaw: maybe something is lost in translation. They could ahve said theyf roze to death because they werent prepared for being froze to death, if they had had a 2 bar electric fire and a 3 bedroom semi detached house they wouldnt have died.

I dont mean to be disrespectful i just get annoyed when someone dies climbing and people queu up to lay blame instead of just thinking that every loss to mankind is actually just that, a loss to mankind.

In reply to 00spaw:

Just so fecking tragic, more here...

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_ar...

Surely, 'mountaineers' die.

Why do the non-brits disappear from news-worthiness?

Henry

In reply to Fawksey:

"Loss to mankind" is a bit sentimental I think.

Wouldn't you think it was worthwhile reporting the fact that they were drunk driving if that was the cause of the deaths.

This is straight to the point...

StÈphane Bozon, captain of the high mountain police in the French Alpine resort of Chamonix, said:

"The group decided on this climb without taking into account the poor weather forecasts. This is stubbornness and stupidity. They persisted despite the weather and focused only on climbing Mont Blanc. Their responsibility is total."

In reply to 00spaw:

Well it's easy to pick faults after the occassion. Hindsight and all that..

Anyway thousands of Brits climb throughout the world most days and climb safely and equipped. Naturally there's a balance between lightness and sufficiently equipped, and of course if a ligh weight climber dies you can always say they should have had more.

In reply to IainRUK:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4141648a10.html

In reply to GerryS:
Do you? How very emotionless of you.

And your point is....?


It's easy to point blame after the event isn't it? Of course they are responsible for their decisions. But it's tragic nonetheless.

I'm so sorry that this has happened, and I wish their families and friends every sympathy. Often there's a fine line between adventure and survival. I believe that people always do their best when life is on the line. Sometimes the odds are impossible. It could happen to any of us. Very tragic.

In reply to nz Cragrat:

New Zealander Russell Brice, who runs the Chamonix [...] said the region attracted thousands of climbers and averaged one death a day.

Wow! really?

In reply to Fawksey:
When I were a lad (Sutty will remember this) The 'conts' all used to call the Brit climbers 'Das Bluejeans' on account of their wear of inappropriate gear, we were also slated for our inappropriate equipment.
Point is, it was all we could afford was innapropriate gear.

In reply to 00spaw: Happens everywhere, not just the Brits. I think depending on the country you live in, you feel it occurs more there because you tend to hear more about the area where you are living.

Overseas I hear of all climbing accidents here, fatal too, and none of them were brits. It really comes down to 'human error', and everyone makes mistakes, and sometimes people forget a little safety issue, that can cost them their lives. E.g. I became complacent abseiling down a rock face one day, only to be told to, "stop there!", by someone on the ground, who saw my rope was about to run out, I had about a metre of gap between me and the ground which wasn't too bad, and it was a single pitch. Below me was a rock with a sharp edge protruding upwards and I would have fell and landed on that had it not been for that other climber warning me. There's been serious accidents like that that have and do happen.

I won't do that again; a safety knot at the end of the rope is a good measure to take so that it can't feed out at the end.

In reply to GerryS:

Sebastian Thomas, from the PGHM said that they, "did not have a tent" - I really must add one to my kit list.

In reply to 00spaw:

A tragic accident. My sympathy and condolences to their families.

John

In reply to Fawksey:

They always say this though don't they, given that Brits are usually the most over equipped on the Mountain it is not always going to be true.

Very sad.

In reply to Alison Stockwell:


Nor is does the blaming always have much to do with the facts. I recall setting off for Route Major on the Brenva face of Mont Blanc, on the basis of a forecast of 3 days of good weather. That afternoon, we crossed the face to what was probably the original Sentinel Rouge, where we bivvied, at least 5-8 hours up the face. Unknown to us, the forecast of 3 days good weather had now mysteriously become 5 days very stormy weather, as we found out when morning brought a very grim picture indeed. The struggle to return across the face and back to safety was memorable, to put it mildly.

Meanwhile, the girlfriend of my partner decided that we were in trouble, and called out the rescue, only to be told by a very brusque French policeman how stupid the English were for setting out in such a bad forecast!

When we got back, to be told that the rescue had been called out for us, like good citizens we went to report that everything was fine and, thanks very much, but they could stop looking. "Oh, we haven't started looking, that wouldn't be till tomorrow."

As for the comment "they didn't have a tent or equipment to dig a snow hole", how many people (including guided parties) on the Voie Normale on MB have that?


Well said, a much more sensible and compassionate comment than French mountain rescue persons.

In reply to atlantis:

When I worked in Banff they used to take bets on how many French Canadian hippies would die that year :P

In reply to GerryS:

Met Stephane in July after I was stranded up a hill, the guy tells it like it is, I survived because I was well equipped and used commen sense, he said this lot were an accident waiting to happen. We all know the risks, sounds callous but I have no sympathy.

In reply to Calvi:
We all know the risks, sounds callous but I have no sympathy.

Wow!

Personally I feel nothing but sympathy for the way these guys froze to death. Sounded like the rescuers could hear them on radios/mobiles? from one report I read today.

In reply to Calvi:

So what gear did you have?

Fex.

In reply to Simon4:

i don't blame stephane for his forthright attitude one bit. as the man who has to haul dead body after dead body off the mountain he has every right to be angry with people who take unnecessary risks with their lives. having to deal with all that senseless death has probably had a profound effect on the man and he may want to be harsh to ensure that others listen to the warnings and realise that the risks are real.

In reply to goaty:


I think you have just defined Alpine climbing.

The Gendamerie de Haute Montagne are all volunteers, so they choose the circumstance they find themselves in. It is certainly worth listening to rescue teams, but this remark was callous and insensitive.

In reply to Calvi:

Wow! fame for you. Shame youve no humility.

In reply to Fawksey: from what I understood in the daily mail was that they left the hut at 3am for a summit bid and the weather was bad. However they still carried on despite the weather worsening. They then ended up calling out the emergency rescue who could not find them as they did not know where they were. They also as I understand it did not did snow holes to get out of the weather and sit it out.

In reply to space monkey: Yes I belive thats what the Mail said and it was almost what the Times said. Im not disputing it and Im sure the dead climbers themselves wouldnt dispute it. I am sure that they also knew that they were responsible for their own actions. If only they were here to defend themselves against the sanctimonious bastards that choose times like these to raise their own standing by belittleing others