UKC

At my local crag the belay stakes are quite far back at the top of the crag which makes it difficult to set up an anchor for bottom roping. I was wondering if it is an acceptable practice to set an anchor on the top of the face itself using, say, 3 bits of gear linked and equalised using a sling, then the rope passed through a couple of screwgates. It seems like it would be ok to me so long as the anchors were equalised correctly. It would end up being like the top ropes at an indoor wall. Anyone find any major problems with that kind of set up? Cheers, Sutty

In reply to Sutty22:

Its not commonly done at all, and would be very dodgy unless you get it absolutely right. More common would be to get hold of another rope so you could utilise the belay stakes, bringing a crab to the edge of the cliff for you to hang your main rope. Thats what the stakes are there for, and would be a lot stronger than 3 nuts in the rock.

The easier option is that the belayer anchor himself to the top of the crag, throws a rope down and belays the climber UP the climb from above. Far safer.

In reply to Sutty22:

Yes absolutely fine. Infact apart from the more difficult access to the anchor its safer, because you haven't got anything running over the edge and you can probably see the gear from the belaying position. Obviously equalised bombproof gear as you suggest.

In reply to VisionSet:
It's so my wife and kids can climb at our local crag as they are not ready for lead climbing yet. The routes are only moderate/diff so I have no problem leading up with my wife belaying so I can set an anchor. The main reason is to cut down on rope friction which caused us a few problems today.

In reply to Sutty22:

I really don't see any problem with that at all. If you are competent to set up a belay then you can set it up where you damned well please.

In reply to Sutty22:

Set up a belay on the stake with the end of the rope if it reaches, then tie into a knot with you on the edge of the cliff. Make sure it is tight enough to stop you being pulled over the edge. Of course your wife will have to be competent to tie on, otherwise drop a knot down to them and let them clip on to it with a screwgate krab. Kids need full harnesses.

In reply to Sutty22:

I would say that if your anchors are bombproof then that sounds like a good way to do it. You might want to think about tying your rope to one of the stakes and tie into it just while you set up, you may put your kids of it if you slip off and crater next to them ! If you where going to do this regualy then it might be worth getting a length of static rope to make life easier ! One thing to be wary of is if you are using a really popular area some folk get a bit sweaty about bottom roping but stand your ground if your introducing your kids to it all.
Good Luck

In reply to Dan Goodwin:
I'm definately going to look into getting a length of static rope but this is a short term fix. I tend to take them really early in the morning on the weekends so we're usually wrapping up by the time people start arriving. I tend to find if they're climbing when other people are around it makes them nervous so we go early, until their confidence increases.

In reply to Sutty22:

Listen to Dan above.

Bryn

In reply to Sutty22:

Nothing wrong with this in principal, it's just a bit trickier to set up as others have pointed out. Just watch for loose blocks at the top edge of the crag, it's where you typically find them if you're going to, something you've pulled on 100 times may not stand up so well to a cam behind it. It's just worth a moments extra inspection if you're going to have your wife and kids dangling from it.
jk

In reply to bryn:

Cheers Bryn hope you have had a good summer been a bit damp though !

In reply to Sutty22: It's fine and generally safer than using a stake.

In reply to Sutty22:

If you are going to use the stakes you need to use a static rope or tape to extend over the edge. A normal dynamic rope will 'saw' over the edge as it is loaded and unloaded.

If the rock at the top of the routes is definately sound with no loose blocks, what you propose sounds fine - although a faff for changeing over routes.

In reply to Sutty22: It is acceptable to use long tapes & screw-gates to extend to the edge. 3 points of belay should be a minimum and they should all be of equal tension when loaded, or it could pull to one side when loaded. The final screw gate should extend over the edge if possible; this prevents the rope rubbing over the edge, causing damage to the rope, or erosion to the rock. Make sure you know how to lower-off correctly as well. It wouldn't harm to also use any available natural belays as back-up, but the stakes are probably your best bet if they're in good nick.