In reply to Davy Virdee:
A quick reply before I fly out of the door. Please bear in mind that any discordant notes are as likely to be due to rushed typing as anythig else.
> I've had this conversation with colleagues who are all excellent climbers who struggle to get their MIA beacause they prefer to develop their climbing as it suits their coaching than to get the ML requirements of the MIA.
That sounds like me, apart from the excellent climber bit
I'd love to do it all, but have to be selective at present ;(
> My personal view, espcailly operating almost exclusily in Scotland, to teach and guide on multi-pitch rock up here you need to go into the mountains. The pre-requisite for leading folk inthe mountains is the ML and all the skills that go with it. the ML provides an aspiring MIA with the group management and bed-rock mountain skills to add on the rest of a Mountain Instructor's tool kit. I don't think an SPA gives enough group skills and "risk assesment" training as an ML - MLs can operate in remote areas with help hours away - SPAs can't.
Do the remote area skills and the multi-pitch skills have to be held by the same person? Could a multi-pitch climbing instructor walk in with a good ML? Two volunteers sharing their skills for the benefit of the group. It may even be suggested that there are advantages to the skills being held by different people, if the climber is injured the walker is off the crag and can summon help?
> Maybe in other parts of the UK a multi-pitch award may be appropriate in (NI they have one)- but then it ceases to become a UK wide award. Even descending from an fairly "safe" multi-pitch crag may require skills and judgements that go way beyond that of an ML and SPA.
Funnily enogugh I almost highlighted Scotland as an example but fought shy of such an arbitrary dividing line. Scotland must have multi-pitch crags as cloe to the rad as the rest of the UK? I'd be worried about any highly qualified instructor who couldn't identify such venues, Maybe lower quals encourage more thought regarding venue selection. I know that the scouts terrain system has highlighted a whole host of valuable low risk walking options.
> It's really hard lines, Tim - I feel for you becasue you obviously want to push ahead but feel the system is letting you down. I'm sure if you found enough people to lobby the providers you could influence them to run modular training courses - but the real benefit from the MIA training is spending 9 days back-to-back with trainers and trainnees - it then becomes the greater than the sum ofthe parts.
I strongly disagree with that. Scouting is just one example of a body that achieves effective progression in bite sized chunks. The two methods are certainly different but to my mind saying that a 9 day course is superior hints at inadequacies in those delivering the courses.
> I'm also not convinced that the three providers of the MI awards would want to run them unless you could make them viable for the providers.
This is really gets my goat! I can see where it's coming from but financial viablility is not the key in the voluntary sector. If the administering bodies want to work with the voluntary sector they must be free from commercial constraints and show no bias to the paiod sector so that they can work to benefit everyone and not just those who are in it for the money. If money is a yardstick that is allowed to define the system then the voluntary sector has little choice other than to go it alone with their own schemes. We need a system that works for everyone, if someone wants to make money from it they have to work out how to do it rather than trying to dictate the rules for their own gain.
> (On the subject of the Scouts - we've our Scottish Scouts Mountains Assesor's workshop this weekend with MLTS - we'll be discussing the CWA and other things - drop me an email if you're interested )
Normally I'd jump at this sort of thing as we really need more of it. Unfortunately I'm already booked for a day "mentoring" some of our keener scout instructors on real rock. If you have anything similar going on in future I'd love to hear about it.