/ Hardest Trad onsights of 2007? The List

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What are they? And hardest onsight first ascents?

For both men and women? I'm guessing some pretty tricky E7's for the men and some tough E6's for the ladies. Throw in some E8 flash/ground up type ascents somewhere too.

Just how many E7's have succumbed this year? Anyone know of any? Anyone know of a female onsight of an E6+ this year?

The Scottish Islands have had some E6 onsight first ascents this year, but how many?

To get going:
Male:
E8 - Angels share ground up - Adam Long
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie

Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
Hay - on 11 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:
Nial McNair and Dan McManus' FA of Redemption Ark on Pabbay has to be up there as seen on Committed.
Only (yikes!!) E6 but really committing, miles from civilisation (and hospitals), loose and scary.
Pretty sure it was onsighted at E6 6b XS.
In reply to crippin:

So we've got:

Male:
E8 - Angels Share ground up - Adam Long
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie

Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
Jon Read - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin: Nick Sellars onsight soloed The Pride in the the churnet, which might be worth E7 6b.
In reply to Jon Read:
> (In reply to crippin) Nick Sellars onsight soloed The Pride in the the churnet, which might be worth E7 6b.

So we've got:

Male:
E8 - Angels Share ground up - Adam Long
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellars

Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus

Give me more!!
lowersharpnose - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

Didn't Adam Long fall off Angel's Share lots before getting it?

Doesn't onsight mean no-falls, first attempt, with no practising?

If so, it wouldn't be onsight, which is the title of your thread.

rgds
lowerSharpnose

abarro81 - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to lowersharpnose:
he's put it down as ground up.
Crippin: good thread, unfortunately i don't know any to add to the list though.
Fiend - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

Excellent topic! This should be an honourary premier post or something.
In reply to crippin:
I think the lack of knowledge proves that our media has a strong focus on numbers and not style. If I'd have asked about headpointed routes at E9 and above - I'll wager I would get more answers?

OK, I know a few more onsights, and can guess at some, but I'm not sure if they were all this year - any clarification would be great.

As the list hopefully grows we can scrub off the easier routes to make a shorter elite list....

So we've got:

Male:
E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellars
E7 - several?, Neil 'youth' Dickson - anyone know which this year?
E7 - Surgical Lust, me
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
(there must be more E6's?)

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
Jus - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

Didn't Adam Long claim Angels Share as Highball 7c or something rather than E8?
BelleVedere on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to es:
> (In reply to crippin)
>
> Niall McNair - the Clown E7
>
> http://www.scottishclimbs.com/wiki/McNair_onsights_The_Clown_at_Gogarth

Thanks Es.

So we've got:

Male:
E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long (highball 7c?)
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellars
E7 - several?, Neil 'youth' Dickson - anyone know which this year?
E7 - Surgical Lust, me
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
(there must be more E6's?)
E5 - anyone?

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E5 - anyone?
TRip - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin: What about solos?
JLS on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

>"1 preplaced runner"

And so set in the rot...
TRip - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to JLS:
> (In reply to crippin)
>
> >"1 preplaced runner"
>
> And so set in the rot...

I can't belive this forum some times.

Some wee fud who climbs E1, belittling a superb ground up effort on an outragouslly difficult route; just because it had one runner pre placed - an RP by his wife - he didn't exspect the route by absail either.

Might not be perfect style, but a one hell of an effort.

Fiend - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to Tom Ripley:

I can't believe this forum some times.

Some wee fud <insert disparaging comment about someone's climbing grade here> taking a humourous comment far too seriously...
JLS on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to Tom Ripley:

Head points are good efforts but I thought this thread was an effort to recognised the guys climbing the purest form of trad...

banned profile 74 on 12 Nov 2007 - host86-153-225-105.range86-153.btcentralplus.com
In reply to crippin: ground up isnt onsight regarless how you word it :O)
IainWhitehouse - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to lowersharpnose:
> (In reply to crippin)
>
> Didn't Adam Long fall off Angel's Share lots before getting it?
>
> Doesn't onsight mean no-falls, first attempt, with no practising?

No. That's an on-sight flash.

> To OP
I know Tom Briggs has done a number but have no idea which, if any, were this year.
Jon Read - on 12 Nov 2007
ads.ukclimbing.com
stevomcd - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

Dave Macleod on-sighted "Gies a Squid" at E7 in February.
stevomcd - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

Also "Master Blaster Arete" in Northumberland, not totally sure if that was on-sight or not?
Stuart S - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to JLS:

> Head points are good efforts but I thought this thread was an effort to recognised the guys climbing the purest form of trad...

I'm not sure how the ethics committee would describe Jordan's ascent of Carmen Picasso given the pre-placed runner, but as it involved no pre-practice and no abseil inspection (and no falls?), I'd suggest it was closer to the on-sight end of the spectrum than the headpointing end, and therefore worthy of recognition within the context of this thread.


Fiend - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to Stuart S:

> I'm not sure how the ethics committee would describe Jordan's ascent of Carmen Picasso given the pre-placed runner, but as it involved no pre-practice and no abseil inspection (and no falls?), I'd suggest it was closer to the on-sight end of the spectrum than the headpointing end, and therefore worthy of recognition within the context of this thread.

The ethics committee concurs entirely, not least because it's bloody obvious: No pre-practise, no inspection - almost entirely pure ascent and a bloody good one too.

Cheers,
Fiend,
Chief Inspector Tw*t Of The Ethics Police.
JLS on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to Stuart S:

>"I'd suggest it was closer to the on-sight end of the spectrum than the headpointing end"

Yeah, I use to live around the corner from Ken Wilson I reckon there must have been something in the local water. (lead pipes perhaps?)

Anyway, 'closer to the on-sight end of the spectrum'... well yes, but if you were in the market for a virgin would you settle for almost a virgin?
BelleVedere on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to JLS:

yeah - still quite tight, but without the blood - and you can always continue the search afterwards

(sorry)
gforce on 12 Nov 2007
> Female:
> E5 - anyone?

Tess Fryer onsighted Miss Moneypenny E5 and Warpath E5. She is interviewed by Niall McNair on his blog:

http://deftmoves.blogspot.com/2007/11/some-friends-of-mine-1-tess-fryer.html
Chris F - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to JLS:
>but if you were in the market for a virgin would you settle for almost a virgin?

Depends how fit she is?

malx - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin: Dan Mcmanus onsighted the first ascent of "The Apprentice" E6 6b, on the Lleyn
In reply to IainWhitehouse:

> No. That's an on-sight flash.

I remember years ago Cubby writing that there is no such thing. A flash implies that you have beta, hence it's not an onsight. That's what I've always taken them to mean.

Michael Ryan - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to TobyA:
> (In reply to IainWhitehouse)
>
> [...]
>
> I remember years ago Cubby writing that there is no such thing. A flash implies that you have beta, hence it's not an onsight. That's what I've always taken them to mean.

I remember writing years ago that if you don't qualify 'flash' it will lead to confusion.

Flash by itself means to climb from botton to top in one push continuously. Like a flash of light, start to end in one stream.

Beta Flash - means climbing from botton to top in one push continuously with knowledge (beta) of moves (without having been on the route).

Onsight Flash - means climbing from botton to top with in one push continuously without any knowledge of the moves.

It didn't catch on and hence there is confusion.

All this climbing terminology is flawed. Which is why we discuss it endlessly.

Mick

In reply to crippin: The list must go on!

E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long (highball 7c?)
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellars
E7 - several?, Neil 'youth' Dickson - anyone know which this year?
E7 - Surgical Lust, me
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny + others, Tess Fryer
(there must be more E6's?)
E5 - anyone?

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - anyone?

More, more more....
Michael Ryan - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

Like it....the true pinnacle of UK trad achievements.

You can't call headpointing trad! Maybe sport-trad.

Mick
climber1993 on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin: pete whittaker crakc and slab flashed it says on the news
abarro81 - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:
glenda huxter - white heat (lydstep, e5) (think this was onsight/flash, not 100% though, only spoke to her about it but remember she said it was ok so guess that means she didn't fall off)
katy whittaker - snivelling shits (e5, millstone) (so says gravity)
but surely we don't have to resort to e5s for the girls, or are there really that few female trad climbers around??!!

are there no more north wales boys doing the e7s? I've been told there's strong lakes boys onsighting e7s but again it's all rumours.. anyone know if Birkett's done owt this year? when did pasqual flash EOTA, was that this year?
abarro81 - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to abarro81:
> when did pasqual flash EOTA, was that this year?

sorry, just checked. last year. would be surprised if he'd not done e7 in good style this year though..
maybe they're just on holiday, but the 'my mates onsight e7 all the time' crew seem suspiciously absent on this thread unlike they are on the 'how many have..' threads
Adam Long - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to abarro81:

Pretty sure Ryan had his 'good day' with Slab and Crack, Kaluza Klein and Genocide all on sight this year. Not sure when he did End of the Affair, pretty sure it was last winter though. He certainly deserves to be above me in the list anyway.
Michael Ryan - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to abarro81:

>. anyone know if Birkett's done owt this year?


I'll get him on the phone. I know he's just had a good trip to the USA and did some good free ascents in Zion.
abarro81 - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to Adam L:
frickin hell, that's the sort of day to aspire to! must get back on the fingerboard...
Jon Read - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to Adam L:
slab and crack o/s -- wow!
Aly - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin: This guy http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/profile.php?id=39165 just posted claiming to have onsighted White Lines and then the post disappeared/was deleted...??
Jon Read - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to Aly:
And he replied to himself that he'd toproped it.
Odd!
johncoxmysteriously - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to Adam L:
> (In reply to abarro81)
>
> Pretty sure Ryan had his 'good day' with Slab and Crack, Kaluza Klein and Genocide all on sight this year. Not sure when he did End of the Affair, pretty sure it was last winter though. He certainly deserves to be above me in the list anyway.

Bloody hell, that is a good day. Three different crags as well.

jcm
Serpico on 12 Nov 2007 - 89.241.63.123 whois?
In reply to Aly:
That's not the same guy (he shares the same name) that had Hubble as one of his favourite routes, and 8c+ as his hardest worked grade, but refused to be drawn on whether he'd actually climbed it or not, is it?
Michael Ryan - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to Adam L:
> (In reply to abarro81)
>
> Pretty sure Ryan had his 'good day' with Slab and Crack, Kaluza Klein and Genocide all on sight this year. Not sure when he did End of the Affair, pretty sure it was last winter though. He certainly deserves to be above me in the list anyway.

Can you check Adam and get back to crippen.

Cheers,

Mick

In reply to crippin: OK, we've got a few more, but remember - it's 2007 only and onsight(ish) only. We'll not put E7 flashes in for the Male category but E8 ascents not involving top-ropes are in.

Any abseil inspection is not allowed, as it can vary from a cursory glance to virtual top-roping.

E5's and up for the female cat.

Also interested in Female onsight FA's.

This is a thread celebrating achievements, NOT dissing headpointing - positive only please

When the list is complete I'll try and verify the ascents and re-post to make it accurate.

So we have:
Male:
E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long (highball 7c?)
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Several in a day, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellars
E7 - several?, Neil 'youth' Dickson - anyone know which this year?
E7 - Surgical Lust, me
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny + others, Tess Fryer
E5 - White Heat, Glenda Huxter (possibly)
E5 - Snivelling Shit, Katy Whittaker (was this onsight - anyone know?)
(there must be more E6's?)
E5 - anyone?

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - ???

More, more more....
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: End of the Affair was 2006

Cheers
Michael Ryan - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

> This is a thread celebrating achievements, NOT dissing headpointing - positive only please


OK OK Mr. Crippen. Just that a top headpointer said the other day that most headpoints are easy and feel safe - as long as you put in enough preparation it is just a formality. Onsights the biz he said.

At least that is what I think he said as he speaks in Lakes.
In reply to crippin:

Just realised that Slab and Crack is E8, not E7 - I was a bit confused by the E7 - Crack and Slab! Doh!

So that changes the top spot:
So we have:
Male:
E8 - Slab and Crack, Ryan Pasquil
E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long (highball 7c?)
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Several in a day, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellars
E7 - several?, Neil 'youth' Dickson - anyone know which this year?
E7 - Surgical Lust, me
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny + others, Tess Fryer
E5 - White Heat, Glenda Huxter (possibly)
E5 - Snivelling Shit, Katy Whittaker (was this onsight - anyone know?)
(there must be more E6's?)
E5 - anyone?

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - ???

More, more more....
Fiend - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

> You can't call headpointing trad! Maybe sport-trad.

Are you sure?? Is that the conclusion you got from here...

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=270214&v=1#3996676

???
andi_e - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin: There's hundreds upon hundreds of E7 flashes every day.
Dangerous Dave - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to stevomcd:
> (In reply to crippin)
>
> Dave Macleod on-sighted "Gies a Squid" at E7 in February.

Yes he did but 2 people had been top roping getting ready for the lead. They left it heavily chalked with small chalk marks to show holds. Think this route is quite blind otherwise. Still a superb achievment just not quite as pure an onsight as some would believe. Well thats what I gather from reading magazines dave's blog and this post on scottish climbs
Check http://forums.scottishclimbs.com/index.php/topic,4158.45.html

andi_e - on 12 Nov 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Maybe sport-trad.

Oh no, here comes Si O'Conor's Sprad nonsense again...

In reply to andi_e:
> (In reply to crippin) There's hundreds upon hundreds of E7 flashes every day.

Awesome - post 'em up. (or shut up) ;-)

Reply to Dangerous Dave - it's a fair point, but we'll let chalk in on these ascents - otherwise it's very tricky to categorise. Thanks for the info.
Simon Wilson - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

Pasta Quill's good day was this year. And it was Crack and Slab not Slab and Crack.
Adam Long - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to Somebody's Fool:

Balls, I should clean my ears out.

When was Slab and Crack upgraded?
In reply to Adam L: OK, due to slight confusion that still isn't cleared up - Ryan has been knocked off top spot.

Anyone give some proper clarification as to which slabby and cracky route he onsighted and what the real grade of said route is?

The list is thus:
So we have:
Male:
E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long (highball 7c?)
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Several in a day, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellars
E7 - several?, Neil 'youth' Dickson - anyone know which this year?
E7 - Surgical Lust, me
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny + others, Tess Fryer
E5 - White Heat, Glenda Huxter (possibly)
E5 - Snivelling Shit, Katy Whittaker (was this onsight - anyone know?)
(there must be more E6's?)
E5 - anyone?

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - ???

More, more more....
In reply to crippin: Can anyone give some info on Katy W's ascent of Snivelling Shit?

I read about it, but can't remember if it was onsight.
Fiend - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

I am pretty sure it was on her blog as onsight. No mention of numbers of pads used.

Sorry I can't be more helpful, but I tend to forget stuff I've read in the news these days and as you say the media tends to focus more on numbers rather than style.
abarro81 - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:
Naiomi Buys put it as a flash in her british team round up thingy in gravity a while back, she said she'd onsighted/flashed an e5 in the same article i think but not got it here to check...
ads.ukclimbing.com
rc on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:
Was it this year that careless torque got GU'd?
(and did Rich Simpson do this and/or other stuff onsight/GU? all seemed a bit unreported...)
Fiend - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

From UKC news:

Mar 30: Sellers flashes Balance It Is
by Tom Briggs

Nic Sellers
During the recent pucka gritstone conditions, Nic Sellers made a rare flashed ascent of Balance It Is, E7 6c, at Burbage South. This 1995 Neil Foster route has had a handful of ground-up and flashed ascents, and was rumoured to have had a pure on-sight by Rich Simpson. Nic had a little bit of help with the foot sequence to get established on the arÍte, before placing the crucial brass nut that protects the top half of the route, and cruising to the top.

....

Ben Cossey, The True Master of The Master's Edge?

Climbing ground-up (no top rope practice) Ben started up The Master's Edge but fell low down when he fumbled the low bouldery starting sequence. He then got back on and fired The Master's Edge, placing a white Alien and a number three Tri-cam (borrowed from his Swedish-Australian friend, Rosendorph) in the shotholes and made it to the top. Again, like Nic Sellars, a one fall, no-practice ground-up ascent.

....

Oldish: Geraldine Taylor and Jibť Tribout still cranking hard
by Mick Ryan

The English climber Geraldine Taylor (54) had a great summer this year despite the rain, climbing in Cornwall, Lundy and Pembroke. She managed to lead several E5's including Yellow Pearls, Barbarella, Get Some In, White Heat and Mean Streak in Pembroke. In the Peaks she made her annual ascent of London Wall at Milestone and Goosey Goosey Ganda at Stanage.


(Not known if any of those are onsights for this year or indeed completely clean)

....

From Lucy Creamer's blog:

Anyway that was cool and today I led Profit of Doom. This felt a lot harder than Usurper and even with the pre-placed bit of gear, I think itís E5. Some very good climbers were on it today when my rope was there and nobody flashed it. That says a lot to me.

....

That's all I could find that hasn't already been mentioned.

I have a very vague recollection about reading about some harder on-sights in Lundy and Pembroke?? And hasn't Neil Mawson done something this year??
John2 - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to Fiend: Geraldine led Barbarella, Get Some In, and Mean Streak completely clean, but she had led all of these before. She took two falls on White Heat, and again she had led the route before. Yellow Pearls was led on sight, but I don't know what (if any) the fall count was. This route may well be upgraded to E6 in the next Pembroke guide. At Gogarth upper tier she led Energy Crisis, Run Fast Run Free and The Cruise on sight with no falls.

I know of at least two other women who onsighted E5 in Pembroke, but I suspect that there were several more. I think the lesson of all this is that the people who are leading hard routes have better things to do than to question the achievements of others on Rocktalk.
Fiend - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to John2:

That's useful information, I'm sure crippin will be grateful.

I'm sure he'll also be grateful when you give the details of the two other women onsighting E5 in Pembroke this year, or any other relevant information.

I don't think anyone is grateful for pointless irrelevancies about "better things to do than question the achievements of others etc etc".
abarro81 - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to John2:
i'm not sure anyone is questioning the achievements of others (except maybe Mick's headpointing comments).. we're just interested in which beasts have been doing hard routes in good style this year; it's inspiring to know about e7s getting onsighted etc. gives us something to aspire to.
In reply to Fiend:

Nice one Fiend!
> Nic Sellers
> During the recent pucka gritstone conditions, Nic Sellers made a rare flashed ascent of Balance It Is, E7 6c,

A fantastic effort - and probably as onsight as many 'onsights' - we'll have it.

> Ben Cossey, The True Master of The Master's Edge?
> Climbing ground-up (no top rope practice) Ben started up The Master's Edge but fell low down when he fumbled the low bouldery starting sequence.

Also very good - but the fall means it just won't squeeze in the list, E7 - no falls I think. E8 - Ground Up is still in.

> The English climber Geraldine Taylor (54) had a great summer this year despite the rain

Not in as we don't know if they were onsight or the good old 'retro flash' If they are onsight then they can go in. Anyone any info?

> From Lucy Creamer's blog:
>
> Anyway that was cool and today I led Profit of Doom. This felt a lot harder than Usurper and even with the pre-placed bit of gear, I think itís E5. Some very good climbers were on it today when my rope was there and nobody flashed it. That says a lot to me.

It may say a lot, but it doesn't say whether it was an onsight or not. The blog mentions that Janus is her first headpoint, but also talks of 'a rope on Profit'. Any info?

It would be great to have Lucy Creamer in the list.

Also Neil Dickson onsighted Isis is Angry at Gogarth, but down graded it to E5, so I guess that doesn't count! What else have you been up to Neil? Be quick or you're going off the list!

So we have:
Male:
E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long (highball 7c?)
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Several in a day, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellars + Balance E7 flash
E7 - several?, Neil 'youth' Dickson - anyone know which this year?
E7 - Surgical Lust, me
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny + others, Tess Fryer
E5 - White Heat, Glenda Huxter (possibly)
E5 - Snivelling Shit, (maybe a flash?) Katy Whittaker
(there must be more E6's?)
E5 - anyone?

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - ???

More, more more....
In reply to John2: Thanks for the clarification John. As UKC is an important and influential media source for British climbing and these forums are an integral part of that media - I think we as users have a duty to A: make the information accurate and B: if we have certain types of climbing we want to see in that media - we have to put them in ourselves.

This thread is a celebration of achievement. I'm not questioning anything.

I'm not dissing anything and I'm not judging anything. Top ropes are cool, bouldering is ace and winter climbing floats my boat too.

Any chance you could give the names of the talented female climbers you refer to? And which routes they climbed onsight this year?
In reply to crippin: List updated:

So we have:
Male:
E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long (highball 7c?)
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Several in a day, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellars + Balance E7 flash
E7 - several?, Neil 'youth' Dickson - anyone know which this year?
E7 - Surgical Lust, me
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
E5 - Several at Gogarth, Geraldine Taylor
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny + others, Tess Fryer
E5 - White Heat, Glenda Huxter (possibly)
E5 - Snivelling Shit, (maybe a flash?) Katy Whittaker
(there must be more E6's?)
E5 - anyone?

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - ???

More, more more....
John2 - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin: Both Fiend and you questioned the style of Geraldine's ascents. As for the other climbers, I don't know them so I don't know if they'd be happy for me to be posting about them.

Don't you have one or two routes missing from your list of female E5s now?
abarro81 - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:
sorry, i've been getting myself all confused... it was geraldine taylor who i spoke to about white heat, not glenda huxter. sorry. so one off the list.
has pete robins doe any this year (or is that 'me'?)
Mick - where's the Birkett info?
No other lakes 'scene' poeple to fill us in on who's been doing what up there?
In reply to crippin:

OK, list updated.

So we have:
Male:
E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long (highball 7c?)
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Several in a day, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellers + Balance E7 flash
E7 - Surgical Lust, Jack Geldard
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
E5 - Several at Gogarth, Geraldine Taylor
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny + others, Tess Fryer
E5 - Snivelling Shit, (maybe a flash?) Katy Whittaker
(there must be more E6's?)
E5 - anyone?

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - ???

More, more more....
John2 - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin: Yellow Pearls?
In reply to John2: You said that you're not sure if she took falls. So we're not sure if this was a ground up with falls E5 or not.

E5 onsights only for the female cat. If we can clarify it I'll put it in.

John, thanks again for the info. It's for historical reference - not saying one thing is better than another. As for the unknown female climbers: do you know the routes and the fact that it was this year and onsight? If so, I can put down Anon and the route? A compromise?
John2 - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin: I know of two women who led John Wayne at St Govan's this year, one definitely on sight and the other probably. As I said before though, I'd be amazed if these were the only female E5 on sight leads in Pembroke this year and indeed there are sufficient strong female climbers in North Wales to make it a racing certainty that we don't know about some good ascents there.

As for the historical reference aspect of it, I'm not so sure - surely we're just a bunch of office workers attempting to stave off boredom? I bet lots of good ascents were done that have not been mentioned bere.
In reply to John2: Thanks John.

So we have:
Male:
E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long (highball 7c?)
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Several in a day, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellers + Balance E7 flash
E7 - Surgical Lust, Jack Geldard
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
E5 - Several at Gogarth, Geraldine Taylor
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny + others, Tess Fryer
E5 - Snivelling Shit, (maybe a flash?) Katy Whittaker
E5 - John Wayne - Anon (from John2)
(there must be more E6's?)
E5 - anyone?

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - ???

More, more more....
abarro81 - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:
http://www.slackjaw.co.uk/climbingfilms/hardxs_filmsinfo.html
implies Emmett might have done Extinction (E8) ground-up; dunno if he made it or not...
JLS on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

>"Onsight First Ascents"

Shouldn't this get top billing? Any repeat ascent by its very nature must have had some of the psychological barriers broken down for the repeater...
In reply to abarro81: No, he didn't get up it.
In reply to JLS: Well I think they all get 'Top Billing' - but just in different categories. I'm not going to pit category against category, just compiling who's done the hardest in each category.

(Does that make sense?)

Thanks.
Morgan Woods - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

If you won't give Ben Cossey an entry here for Masters Edge, then how about for his ground up ascent of Careless Torque (E7) in a very warm April.

Also didn't Libby Peter get around to doing Right Wall this year?
ads.ukclimbing.com
Alasdair Fulton - on 13 Nov 2007
How hard is the second pitch of "To Hell and Back", in isolation from the rest of the route?

I don't think Dave Macleod pre-practised it before leading it, so is that a flash? E7, E8, E9? Who knows!
Colin Moody - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to Alasdair Fulton:
I thought he had cleaned it.
Alasdair Fulton - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to Colin Moody: Still a flash? I didn't say it was onsight.

It certainly looked like he was having to work out all the moves on the lead.
abarro81 - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to Alasdair Fulton:
this has to be the best avoiding-physics thread for a while... Macloed says "Claire took the pictures of pitch 2, a superb forty five metre pitch of E5." on his blog, so that's not on the list.
johncoxmysteriously - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to abarro81:

Oh, I don't know. Maybe put it in at Macleod E5?!

jcm
Alasdair Fulton - on 13 Nov 2007
In reply to abarro81: Oops!
In reply to Morgan Woods: Cheers for the info. Won't let the Careless Torque ascent in, as it's an E7 with falls (but probably closer to high-balling?) Conditiopns are irrelevant - it would be very difficult to categorise!

It is still an amazing effort - not being in this list doesn't mean I/we? think it's not awesome in any way. Very impressive climbing.

We'll let Angels Share in (for now...) as it is E8 - I might make a sub category for ground-up highballs?

Any thoughts anyone on that idea?

I'll leave Libby out too for now until we get confirmation.

Thanks.
In reply to crippin: Updated:

So we have:
Male:
E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long (highball 7c?)
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Several in a day, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Masters Edge, Le Fin, + others James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellers + Balance E7 flash
E7 - Surgical Lust, Jack Geldard
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod
E7 - Kaya, Super Calabrese + others, Neil Youth Dickson
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
E5 - Several at Gogarth, Geraldine Taylor
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny + others, Tess Fryer
E5 - Snivelling Shit, (maybe a flash?) Katy Whittaker
E5 - John Wayne - Anon (from John2)
(there must be more E6's?)
E5 - anyone?

Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - ???

More, more more....
Simon Wilson - on 14 Nov 2007
In reply to Jon Read:

When did The Pride get its upgrade?
In reply to crippin: Another slight update:

So we have:
Male:
E8 - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long (highball 7c?)
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Several in a day, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Masters Edge, Le Fin, + others James McHaffie
E7 - The Pride, Nic Sellers + Balance E7 flash
E7 - Surgical Lust, Jack Geldard
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod (did he then downgrade it to E6?)
E7 - Kaya, Super Calabrese + others, Neil Youth Dickson
E6/7 - Desperate Dan, Pete Robins (shall we have this in?)
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
E5 - Several at Gogarth, Geraldine Taylor
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny + others, Tess Fryer
E5 - Snivelling Shit, (maybe a flash?) Katy Whittaker
E5 - John Wayne - Anon x2 (from John2)
(there must be more E6's?)


Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - Polymastia Traverse, Jack Geldard (I am now clutching at straws!)

More, more more....
Adam Long - on 14 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

I'd rather fall off the top of Angel's Share than the top of Careless Torque - Careless is harder and puts you in a horrible body position, and a similar height? Either put both in or neither.
Fiend - on 14 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

Isn't your Polymastia Traverse a total sandbag though??


I think the list would be better if you gave individual entries for each route - it would be interesting to see what routes had been done rather than "several by so and so". It would also make it bigger!
In reply to crippin: Thanks Fiend and Adam. Changes made.

Anyone clarify the following:?
Ryan P's big day - which route? Did he fall?
Katy W's E5 - onsight or flash?
Carmen Picasso - is it E8 or E7 or E8/7 (Ben Bransby and Dave Mc, any thoughts?)

Also, I'm very out of touch with highballs, so any info on that scene greatly appreciated.


So we have:
Male:
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Crack and Slab, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Kaluza Klien, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Genocide, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - Le Fin, James McHaffie
E7 - Super Calabrese, James McHaffie
E6/7 - Boss Hogg, James McHaffie
E6/7 - The Pride, Nic Sellers
E7 - Balance it Is, Nic Sellers (virtually onsight)
E7 - Surgical Lust, Jack Geldard
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod (did he then downgrade it to E6?)
E7 - Kaya, Neil Youth Dickson
E7 - Super Calabrese, Neil Youth Dickson
E7 - Professor Whittaker, Neil Youth Dickson
E6/7 - Desperate Dan, Pete Robins (shall we have this in?)
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
E5 - Run Fast Run Free, Geraldine Taylor
E5 - The Cruise, Geraldine Taylor
E5 - Energy Crisis, Geraldine Taylor
E5 - Yellow Pearls, Geraldine Taylor (possible falls?)
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny, Tess Fryer
E5 - Warpath, Tess Fryer
E5 - Snivelling Shit, (maybe a flash?) Katy Whittaker
E5 - John Wayne - Anon x2 (from John2)
(there must be more E6's?)


Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - Polymastia Traverse, Jack Geldard (I am now clutching at straws!)

Highballs:
E7/Font 8a - Careless Torque, ground up, Ben Cossey (any others this year? Andy Earl?)
E8/Font 7c - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long

More, more more....
Simon Wilson - on 14 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

Ryan fell off Crack and Slab. So the ubiquitous cameraman said anyway. And Genocide is E6.

Andy Earl did Careless Torque ground up in February.
abarro81 - on 14 Nov 2007
In reply to Somebody's Fool:
do you/anyone know what the deal with crack and slab is? It getting 7a from the FA but then I've been told that doing it how Jordan Buys does it in gritstone year is more like 6b and the crack is still the crux..? Don't know if that's just a better sequence, or if the original was supposed to be eliminate or summat?
In reply to crippin: Thanks Somebody's Fool. Really good info. If Crack and Slab (or the other one - which ever Ryan did) is E8 he goes in as an E8 ground up with 1 fall. A mighty achievement.

Can anyone confirm which route and what the current thoughts on the grade are?

So the current list is:

So we have:
Male:
E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
E7 - Kaluza Klien, Ryan Pasquil
E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
E7 - Le Fin, James McHaffie
E7 - Super Calabrese, James McHaffie
E6/7 - Boss Hogg, James McHaffie
E6/7 - The Pride, Nic Sellers
E7 - Balance it Is, Nic Sellers (virtually onsight)
E7 - Surgical Lust, Jack Geldard
E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod (did he then downgrade it to E6?)
E7 - Kaya, Neil Youth Dickson
E7 - Super Calabrese, Neil Youth Dickson
E7 - Professor Whittaker, Neil Youth Dickson
E6/7 - Desperate Dan, Pete Robins (shall we have this in?)
(There must be lots more E7 onsights surely?)


Female:
E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
E5 - Run Fast Run Free, Geraldine Taylor
E5 - The Cruise, Geraldine Taylor
E5 - Energy Crisis, Geraldine Taylor
E5 - Yellow Pearls, Geraldine Taylor (possible falls?)
E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
E5 - Miss Moneypenny, Tess Fryer
E5 - Warpath, Tess Fryer
E5 - Snivelling Shit, (maybe a flash?) Katy Whittaker
E5 - John Wayne - Anon x2 (from John2)
(there must be more E6's?)


Onsight First Ascents:
E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
E5 - Polymastia Traverse, Jack Geldard (I am now clutching at straws!)

Highballs:
E7/Font 8a - Careless Torque, ground up, Ben Cossey
E7/Font 8a - Careless Torque, ground up, Andy Earl
E8/Font 7c - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long

More, more more....
Simon Wilson - on 14 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:

I think the grade of Crack and Slab is a grey area. It's certainly not E8. John Arran gave it E7 7a when he first did it and Jordan thought it was E6 6bish. Ryan didn't comment, although he doesn't fall off lightly.

Peter Whittaker flashed it according to UKC news this week so he should be on your list as well. It gets E7 in that story
abarro81 - on 14 Nov 2007
In reply to crippin:
at a guess the list is smaller than expected because everyone's favourite e7 o/s - ghost train - has been wet all summer! (or at least every time i was in Pembroke)
Anonymous on 14 Nov 2007 - 78.144.234.161 whois?
In reply to crippin: If you take a look at Karin Magog's blog she's certainly done a few E5's this year, including John Wayne, possibly one of the anon ascents already listed...
Michael Ryan - on 14 Nov 2007
ads.ukclimbing.com
John2 - on 14 Nov 2007
In reply to Anonymous: Well that's the definitely onsight ascensionist of John Wayne outed.
Michael Ryan - on 14 Nov 2007
In reply to John2:
> (In reply to Anonymous) Well that's the definitely onsight ascensionist of John Wayne outed.

Aye John. Karin's achievements are incredibly impressive and include several first's for UK woman. She is of course off the mainstream climbing radar, like many fine climbers are.

Onsight of Death Wish at Blue Scar?

2001-2005
  • Start to get a few more E6ís under my belt including The Cad, Gogarth E6 6a and The Long Run E6 6b both on the same day; The Great White, Blue Scar E6 6b; Bucket City E6 6b and Pail Face E6 6b, both at Dove Crag
  • Narrowly miss flashing the 2nd ascent of Vlad the Impailer, Dove Crag E7 6b due to dirty holds. Return the following weekend to grab the 4th ascent without incident
  • Headpoint several E7ís including Stairway to Heaven, Blue Scar E7 6c and On The Rocks, Northumberland E7 6c
  • Red-point several routes of F8a and above in Yorkshire, including The Groove, Malham F8a+; Huecool, Gordale F8b and the long awaited 2nd female ascent of Raindogs, Malham F8a
  • Flash F7c

  • In reply to crippin:
    So the current list is:

    So we have:
    Male:
    E7/8 - Carmen Picasso, 1 preplaced runner, Jordan Buys
    E7 - Kaluza Klien, Ryan Pasquil
    E7 - Masters Edge, James McHaffie
    E7 - Le Fin, James McHaffie
    E7 - Super Calabrese, James McHaffie
    E6/7 - Boss Hogg, James McHaffie
    E6/7 - The Pride, Nic Sellers
    E7 - Balance it Is, Nic Sellers (virtually onsight)
    E7 - Surgical Lust, Jack Geldard
    E7 - The Clown, Niall McNair
    E7 - Gies a Squid, Dave Mcleod (did he then downgrade it to E6?)
    E7 - Kaya, Neil Youth Dickson
    E7 - Super Calabrese, Neil Youth Dickson
    E7 - Professor Whittaker, Neil Youth Dickson
    E6/7 - Desperate Dan, Pete Robins (shall we have this in?)


    Female:
    E6 - Lord of the Flies, Jude Spanken
    E6 - Pretty Girls ground up with falls, Jude Spanken
    E5 - John Wayne, Karin Magog
    E5 - Pacemaker, Karin Magog (possibly others)
    E5 - Run Fast Run Free, Geraldine Taylor
    E5 - The Cruise, Geraldine Taylor
    E5 - Energy Crisis, Geraldine Taylor
    E5 - Yellow Pearls, Geraldine Taylor (possible falls?)
    E5 - Darkinbad, Lucy Ellis
    E5 - Miss Moneypenny, Tess Fryer
    E5 - Warpath, Tess Fryer
    E5 - Snivelling Shit, (maybe a flash?) Katy Whittaker


    Onsight First Ascents:
    E6 - Redemption Ark - Nial McNair, Dan McManus
    E6 - The Apprentice, Dan McManus
    E5 - Polymastia Traverse, Jack Geldard (I am now clutching at straws!)
    Any more from the Scottish Islands?

    Highballs:
    E7/Font 8a - Careless Torque, ground up, Ben Cossey
    E7/Font 8a - Careless Torque, ground up, Andy Earl
    E8/Font 7c - Angels Share, ground up - Adam Long

    More, more more....
    Oli - on 14 Nov 2007
    In reply to crippin: Wasn't the Zone rumoured to have been onsighted? I seem to recall quite a lengthy thread about it, although I'm not sure if that was this year...
    Jamie B - on 14 Nov 2007
    In reply to Tom Ripley:

    > I can't belive this forum some times. Some wee fud who climbs E1, etc

    That was a really shit thing to say. For someone who has attracted more than his share of flak you are surprisingly willing to gob off unprovoked at people you don't know.

    If you want to improve the impression that I and others have of you you could start by offering JLS an apology.

    PS - I lead VS; I hope this does not disqualify me from an opinion.
    Jamie B - on 14 Nov 2007
    In reply to JoeL 90:

    I think you're mistaking criticism and satire...
    JoeL 90 - on 14 Nov 2007
    In reply to Jamie B.: yes youre right missed the elipse's sorry JLS.

    This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.