In reply to curly57: there is that, but as far as i know they are the only true softshell trousers they do bar whats in the ski range. the gamma lt trousers seem to have the mx features but with a different material, not sure what its like though. but it depends what you're really going to use 'um for. winter, MX, alpine and everything, AR, light windy cold weather hiking/climbing, LT.