UKC

Hey all. I want to climb and explore an 8000m mountain. I am in the middle of reading Maurice Herzog's 'Annapurna'
(this is an inspiration, a must read) .
As with all first ascents, the expedition is an adventure and an exploration. i would love to have the chance at such an adventure.
What i'd like to know is, is it possible to go out there and explore these mountains and climb them without employing a guide, and without just becoming a member of a group who snow plod in single file to bag a peak.
I understand the dangers and i understand the need to pay money to the country, in order for it to go back to the people.
i know that you can buy yourself a mountain by paying a company 14,000 pounds and they will take you up everest, as long as your fit enough and have the right skills, but i get more enjoyment by doing completeing climbs and exploring, rather than just getting to the top, if tht makes sense.
i'm 24 yrs old, so just wondering if its one of those things that your only get chance to do when you have no commitments.

In reply to matt22:

It is entirely possible to do what you propose.
Whether it is possible for YOU to do it, none us us on here will be able to tell from the info you have provided.

In reply to blueshound: Yeah i realise that. i didnt put any background in, because otherwise the focus would of been on my personal ability, rather than whether there was actually the oppertunity to go and do that.
My abilities and experience are no where near ready for conditions at that hieght yet, but just wanted to knw if it was possible and how people go about it.

In reply to matt22: I presume like most things in climbing youll know when your ready for such things. Any particular reason why you want your peak to be 8000m? because if you weren't too arsed about this factor it would be a hell of a lot easier in the alps and if you dont like lots of people around you maybe Canada.

In reply to JoeL 90: Yeah i've done quite a few routes in the alps, I think it's jus the shear scale of the place. Its like when you are stood in Chamonix looking up at Mont blanc, it looks as close as Snowdon does to the pen y pas, but in reality the Massif is so big that the scale completely fools you.
I would be amazig to feel this factor on an even bigger scale and in a place where the culture is so different.

In reply to matt22: You don't 'explore' 8000m peaks you 'fight' and 'struggle' your way up them.
If you really want to 'explore' then there are hundreds of 5000-6000+m peaks in remote areas of Central Asia and South America that have only had a handful of ascents if that. I made the first British ascents of several 6000ers in the Pamirs age 23 with mates from uni nearly 10 years ago and it was a fantastic experience.
There are plenty of amazing mountains out there, just get yourself out to somewhere and go for it!

In reply to Mark Stevenson: I realise that, its another thing that attracts me to them.
Wow, ur right and that sounds awesome. thats the reason why i posted this thread on here, so that peope like yorself can come on here and show me that it can be done and that it is just a matter of getting yourself out there and exploring.
how many of you went across??

In reply to matt22: I don't quite understand what you are meaning about whether there are oppotunities-if you don'rt want to be guided then you have to make your own opportunities.
Sam

In reply to Sam L:

Was it Tilman or Shipton who answered a similar question with : "You put on your boots, and you go." ?

Someone else can look it up ..

CJ.

In reply to matt22:

from reading and talking to people who've done (in my mind) nuts stuff like this they just do it.

you have to be very focused and bloody minded, arrogant etc.

In reply to matt22:
It is possible to climb an 8000er without a guide or high altitude porters. Though it is now difficult to climb an 8000er without at least some added logistics and bureaucracy, for example peak fee, Liason Officers, environmental fees, a permit for radios/sat phones etc.
There are still new route possibilities on the 8000ers, this would be exploring.
There are whole faces that have been very little explored, if at all. An example of this would be the 'Chinese Side' of the Karakorum 8000ers (K2, BP, G1 and G2), this area has had very few visitors, and only a handful of climbs there.
In addition there is the possiblity of climbing 'out of season', in winter or in the monsoon period. To date none of the Pakistani 8000ers have been ascended in winter.
So yes, very possible to explore and climb the 8000ers independantly

In reply to matt22:

You might want to read Savage Arena for some inspiration, as well as a bit about Jonathan Pratt.

In reply to matt22:
Yes that is a great book...amazing that it was the first 8,000m peak that was summitted, when the latest stats I saw was that it has a fatality rate of 40%.
Anyone know where you can see a list of successful summiters ? Heard there had only been around 130 a few years back, but is that just for Annapurna or does that include the other mtns II, III and IV ?

In reply to matt22:

You could start with 6 or 7000 m peaks... 8000 is going to increase the cost enormously and is beyond the possibilities of most small expeditions... unless you are a Herman Buhl or something

I managed to bag quite several 6000 + peaks, and nearly got to the top of one 7000m before I got to your age... all on light-weight cheap alpine style expeditions (link from profile) but 8000m, in my opinion, is a different matter for most of us.

In reply to matt22: Hey matt, Id say its questionable how much real exploration is possible still on the 8000. Me and some friends have spent the last few years exploring Lahaul and Zanzkar which although standing at a 'mere' 6000 m they are unclimbed and unexplored, even by the locals. The adventure, extended over the years has included the language and culture as well as the climbing, changing us as a person and a deep respect for the region. We are back in Zanzkar next year. 8000m peaks are generally busy circus's which is why we have avoided them. Get a map, find out where no one seems to know anything about, check its not a too bad war zone, buy a ticket, get a good mate and go see what its like, maybe leave all the kit in a main city and go do a light recce before returning with the heavy stuff. Hope this helps. see www.wolfexpeditions.com

Adrian

In reply to matt22:

I would echo the point about lower mountains and exploration: all the 8,000m peaks have been climbed. If you want a really virgin peak, then I suggest you look at 4,500-5,500m peaks in Peru/Bolivia/Ecuador, or snowy peaks in western Canada, Alaska, Greenland, Antarctica. Or perhaps the Himalayas, the Tien Shan, Karakoram... There are loads of unclimbed peaks in the world, usually (but not always) above the snow line. Some of them very accessible, there's just no local tradition of climbing mountains.

And as has been said, there are routes not done on 8,000m peaks.

But if you want to do some really out-there exploration on a budget, then try caving.

In reply to matt22:

Can you explore without using a guide?

Of course you can!
You gain some skills, you gain some experience. You do some research into the places you are wanting to explore. And then you go and explore! That's all.

Do you go with another person or people? That is up to you, and is also dependant on the choices available to you.

There are many advantages to hiring local people for logistical support and guidance. In many steeply mountainous areas there are networks of paths which are not mapped, and which make the difference between easy access and slow and dangerous progress. Hiring locals to guide you makes things a lot easier (they may not be "mountain guides"). Hiring pack animals and a cook can also be temendously comfortable, be surprisingly cheap, and give you a "way in" to some local culture. I have fond memories from the Himalayas of a group of us Brits having a game of Kabadi against a team made up of our horsemen, cooks, and another team of horsemen who were coming through the pass the other way. We lost, of course, but it was good fun. And you don't get more culturally appropriate than playing Kabadi in north west India.

Go on! Have an adventure!

PS I don't diss "snow plods." I have had some beautiful and remote walks in great company which I have thoroughly enjoyed, which could easily be classed as "snow plods"

In reply to matt22: put 1 foot in front of the other for 800m vertical

In reply to ian clarke:

What about the remaining 7200m? Do you jump?

In reply to matt22:


You may have "no commitments", but your fellow travelers, DO.
Here, I've not climbed one of the 14; though many here have, merely one would be for me the epiphany of an entire lifetime.
BEWARE. Your post, with all due respect and understanding, smacks of a newbie who may not realize the seriousness of what you're proposing. I recommend you rent the IMAX film "Everest".
For the old timers the film may be a bit.....tiring in it's layman's approach.
But when you see this documentary of the "tragic season",
perhaps you'll have a clearer grasp of the possible consequenses of your decision to climb, when you're required to employ a guide, the most severe mountains on the planet. Watch, and remember....the tears may be yours or those of the people who support you in a novices attempt to do what all young people aspire to:
the impossible.
.......please mate, don't jump the gun. you've time yet.
Happy Crimbo!
Best, Drew

In reply to Mystery Toad:

I'd add to "layman's"...unfortunately romantic.

In reply to Bruce Hooker: yes

In reply to almost sane: Hi, the whole caving exploration, how do you get into it? (im not quite skilled enough yet, but i'm building my experience up)

In reply to dunnyg: Join a caving club which has contacts and kit - then join the summer trip to somewhere nice like Spain, China or Sarawak. Try www.caveinfo.org.uk/nca for details of clubs. You then need to live rough, drink hard and prove you are not a wazzock - just like climbing used to be.

In reply to JonRoger: Im allready in a club, guess i just wait untill summer