This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Vertebrate Publishing (part of the Sheffield based Vertebrate Graphics) have published a new guidebook to the Peak District that covers over 850 classic routes and boulder problems.
peak district: climbing by John Coefield and Jon Barton, is a full colour, 322 page production.
Read more at hhttp://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=03&year=2008#n43315
peak district: climbing by John Coefield and Jon Barton, is a full colour, 322 page production.
Read more at hhttp://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=03&year=2008#n43315
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Hhhmmm......Mod to HVS .... not really a 'New guidebook'is it...
Surely if it wanted to be 'all encompassing' it should have been similar to 'North Wales Rock' for example..
Quite bemused..... maybe I should wait until I read it...!!
Hhhmmm......Mod to HVS .... not really a 'New guidebook'is it...
Surely if it wanted to be 'all encompassing' it should have been similar to 'North Wales Rock' for example..
Quite bemused..... maybe I should wait until I read it...!!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
FFS : as if there is a shortage of bloody guidebooks to the peak!
FFS : as if there is a shortage of bloody guidebooks to the peak!
In reply to The Pylon King: My sentiments exactly.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Mod to HVS? Mod to HVS?
-chin-.
Sorry, that's the sound of KER-CHING somewhere very far away.
I suppose people have been asking for something covering the easier bouldering for ages which I presume it does, (or they;'d have called it peak district: chuffing) and I'll still buy it or at least look at it for the photos like.
If you buy all the vertebrate graphics guidebooks do they make a picture when you put their spines together like the complete collection of Mr Men books used to?
Also did anyone else find it ironic that some copies of vertebrate graphics guidebooks had faulty spines?
Mod to HVS? Mod to HVS?
-chin-.
Sorry, that's the sound of KER-CHING somewhere very far away.
I suppose people have been asking for something covering the easier bouldering for ages which I presume it does, (or they;'d have called it peak district: chuffing) and I'll still buy it or at least look at it for the photos like.
If you buy all the vertebrate graphics guidebooks do they make a picture when you put their spines together like the complete collection of Mr Men books used to?
Also did anyone else find it ironic that some copies of vertebrate graphics guidebooks had faulty spines?
In reply to Paz:
You'd find one of me Which is kind of cool as I didn't know about the guide. But not so cool as it was taken on the same day as pics in 2 other guides, so people are going to think I don't have a change of clothes!!
> at least look at it for the photos
You'd find one of me Which is kind of cool as I didn't know about the guide. But not so cool as it was taken on the same day as pics in 2 other guides, so people are going to think I don't have a change of clothes!!
In reply to cider nut:
I was hopefully expecting an updated On Peak Rock.
But why stop at HVS? 'With a bit of E1' very similar to those rockfax pockect guides.
I was hopefully expecting an updated On Peak Rock.
But why stop at HVS? 'With a bit of E1' very similar to those rockfax pockect guides.
In reply to Owen W-G: I was thinking that, the selective peak guide market must be a bit saturated now!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
One of the treats of climbing on Peak grit is that you can be on a modestly graded climb next to one with a big E number. Knowing that the impossible looking piece of rock has beem climbed is both inspiring and intimidating. Having a guide that panders only to punters will put a glass ceiling to their aspiration, giving them the impression that E grades are not for them. (Note I am firmly in the punter class but like to see what is possible).
One of the treats of climbing on Peak grit is that you can be on a modestly graded climb next to one with a big E number. Knowing that the impossible looking piece of rock has beem climbed is both inspiring and intimidating. Having a guide that panders only to punters will put a glass ceiling to their aspiration, giving them the impression that E grades are not for them. (Note I am firmly in the punter class but like to see what is possible).
In reply to Paz:> Also did anyone else find it ironic that some copies of vertebrate graphics guidebooks had faulty spines?
No.
A commercial publishing company provides a product at its own expense which they think will be in demand. If the demand is not there the product will not sell and they will lose money. Clearly you think they should be serving some higher purpose. This is faulty thinking on your part rather than faulty spines on theirs.
No.
A commercial publishing company provides a product at its own expense which they think will be in demand. If the demand is not there the product will not sell and they will lose money. Clearly you think they should be serving some higher purpose. This is faulty thinking on your part rather than faulty spines on theirs.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: It is presumible worth buying if just for the front cover!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Hmmm.... I just wrote a scathing reply regarding saturation of the market and a clear clash with the Rockfax Pockets guides.
But I deleted it. I do think the market is saturated for guides to routes, but having looked at the website, this does look to be a beautiful guidebook, and I would love to get my hands on a copy to see what it is like. I like the idea of limestone and grit being included in the same guide, and some bouldering too. I also think that the chosen grade range is a pretty good one for the target audience. I deleted my initial reply as I think that this guide may actually be the best select guide to the Peak District if you want just one guide book for everything (and judging by the number of people who own On Peak Rock, that is a lot of people).
I'll reserve further judgment until I see a copy, but it does look promising.
However, I really do think there is a large market for a low grade bouldering guidebook. Many of the easier lines from Fax09 were not included in the VG book and replaced with a comment about finding easier lines for yourself. I think this is elitist and many of the climbers I know and see about can't climb V2/5+ which leaves a large number of problems currently only in the new BMC guides. I'd love to see a lower grade bouldering guide.
Hmmm.... I just wrote a scathing reply regarding saturation of the market and a clear clash with the Rockfax Pockets guides.
But I deleted it. I do think the market is saturated for guides to routes, but having looked at the website, this does look to be a beautiful guidebook, and I would love to get my hands on a copy to see what it is like. I like the idea of limestone and grit being included in the same guide, and some bouldering too. I also think that the chosen grade range is a pretty good one for the target audience. I deleted my initial reply as I think that this guide may actually be the best select guide to the Peak District if you want just one guide book for everything (and judging by the number of people who own On Peak Rock, that is a lot of people).
I'll reserve further judgment until I see a copy, but it does look promising.
However, I really do think there is a large market for a low grade bouldering guidebook. Many of the easier lines from Fax09 were not included in the VG book and replaced with a comment about finding easier lines for yourself. I think this is elitist and many of the climbers I know and see about can't climb V2/5+ which leaves a large number of problems currently only in the new BMC guides. I'd love to see a lower grade bouldering guide.
In reply to O. C. Curmudgeon:
Glass ceiling?...
Maybe if they existed in a complete information vacuum and only had this one guidebook.
Glass ceiling?...
Maybe if they existed in a complete information vacuum and only had this one guidebook.
In reply to Simon Lee:
Paz, Sorry I think I misunderstood your post which now I re-read it I think was a pun on vertebrate rather than an oblique insult that the publishers lacked backbone/were spineless.
Paz, Sorry I think I misunderstood your post which now I re-read it I think was a pun on vertebrate rather than an oblique insult that the publishers lacked backbone/were spineless.
In reply to Simon Lee:
YI suspect it was.
As an aside why does the book cover bouldering up to Font 7a then include a few E1's to aspire to. Surely it should be the other way round?
YI suspect it was.
As an aside why does the book cover bouldering up to Font 7a then include a few E1's to aspire to. Surely it should be the other way round?
In reply to necromancer85:
That is a very good point. If you can climb font 7a then E1 should be fairly straightforward.
> (In reply to Simon Lee)
>
> YI suspect it was.
>
> As an aside why does the book cover bouldering up to Font 7a then include a few E1's to aspire to. Surely it should be the other way round?
>
> YI suspect it was.
>
> As an aside why does the book cover bouldering up to Font 7a then include a few E1's to aspire to. Surely it should be the other way round?
That is a very good point. If you can climb font 7a then E1 should be fairly straightforward.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: If its mod to HVS, isn't it misrepresenting itself as a climbing guide? Scrambles in the Peak anyone?
In reply to necromancer85:
My thought exactly,
I think a new guide just of lower grade bouldering in the peak would have more appeal, ironically a gap in the market created by their own poor book (IMO) ‘Peak District: Bouldering’. I spent ages looking for the old Rockfax one on ebay, but now use the new BMC guides where the coverage exist as I find them even better. But it would be nice to have one guide just for bouldering. As mentioned above the attitude of elitism in that book surrounding bouldering is probably not helped by comments like this:
"When people talk about bouldering at Burbage South you tend to think about the boulders down in the bottom of the valley. These might be good for beginners but for anyone else I would have to say they are pretty crap!" - Ben Moon
Personally I'm not expecting much from it other than some nice photos of the popular routes from a different angle that are already in other guides on the grit side, but I will be interested to see what they've done on the limestone/sport side, given I didn't like the format in their other bouldering guide. Not long now though to wait for the final coverage of the peak district eastern sides bouldering with the new BMC Froggatt, Curbar...etc guide out this year
My thought exactly,
I think a new guide just of lower grade bouldering in the peak would have more appeal, ironically a gap in the market created by their own poor book (IMO) ‘Peak District: Bouldering’. I spent ages looking for the old Rockfax one on ebay, but now use the new BMC guides where the coverage exist as I find them even better. But it would be nice to have one guide just for bouldering. As mentioned above the attitude of elitism in that book surrounding bouldering is probably not helped by comments like this:
"When people talk about bouldering at Burbage South you tend to think about the boulders down in the bottom of the valley. These might be good for beginners but for anyone else I would have to say they are pretty crap!" - Ben Moon
Personally I'm not expecting much from it other than some nice photos of the popular routes from a different angle that are already in other guides on the grit side, but I will be interested to see what they've done on the limestone/sport side, given I didn't like the format in their other bouldering guide. Not long now though to wait for the final coverage of the peak district eastern sides bouldering with the new BMC Froggatt, Curbar...etc guide out this year
So what if the select guidebook market is saturated?
No one is forcing anyone to buy them all!
No one is forcing anyone to buy them all!
In reply to Graeme Hammond:
As an aside you'll find most of the best lower grade bouldering is included in the new BMC guides. I've been canvassing for a new peak wide selective lower grade bouldering guide for some time. Might do it myself soon if nothing happens. Most of it is on Offwidth (or ready to go on as draft pages) already.
As an aside you'll find most of the best lower grade bouldering is included in the new BMC guides. I've been canvassing for a new peak wide selective lower grade bouldering guide for some time. Might do it myself soon if nothing happens. Most of it is on Offwidth (or ready to go on as draft pages) already.
In reply to Offwidth:
that was one of the main resons i bought my first BMC guide to the peaks a few years back, and then realised they were also excellent for everything else too, i now use both the rock fax and bmc guides for extra weight training and even more time wasting
ps i'll buy your guide if you decide to make a lower grade bouldering guide
on a side note when i was lucky enoughto buy a unused copy of the old rockfax bouldering guide off ebay it came with a bran new copy the bmc's on peak rock that i haven't ever taken to a crag but find a good coffee table style book or good for ideas of new places to explore...anyway to the point what would the reception of the climbing communitee be different from the above if this guide had been produced by or under the name of the BMC as a replacement/update of On Peak Rock???
> (In reply to Graeme Hammond)
>
> As an aside you'll find most of the best lower grade bouldering is included in the new BMC guides. I've been canvassing for a new peak wide selective lower grade bouldering guide for some time. Might do it myself soon if nothing happens. Most of it is on Offwidth (or ready to go on as draft pages) already.
>
> As an aside you'll find most of the best lower grade bouldering is included in the new BMC guides. I've been canvassing for a new peak wide selective lower grade bouldering guide for some time. Might do it myself soon if nothing happens. Most of it is on Offwidth (or ready to go on as draft pages) already.
that was one of the main resons i bought my first BMC guide to the peaks a few years back, and then realised they were also excellent for everything else too, i now use both the rock fax and bmc guides for extra weight training and even more time wasting
ps i'll buy your guide if you decide to make a lower grade bouldering guide
on a side note when i was lucky enoughto buy a unused copy of the old rockfax bouldering guide off ebay it came with a bran new copy the bmc's on peak rock that i haven't ever taken to a crag but find a good coffee table style book or good for ideas of new places to explore...anyway to the point what would the reception of the climbing communitee be different from the above if this guide had been produced by or under the name of the BMC as a replacement/update of On Peak Rock???
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
At least the guide will cover limestone whjere there are no real modern guides, and may encourage people to vist stoney, cheedale, matlock area etc to sample the easier grades on offer.
At least the guide will cover limestone whjere there are no real modern guides, and may encourage people to vist stoney, cheedale, matlock area etc to sample the easier grades on offer.
In reply to neilh:
This one's quite modern
http://www.rockfax.com/publications/books/item.php?id=72
> At least the guide will cover limestone whjere there are no real modern guides
This one's quite modern
http://www.rockfax.com/publications/books/item.php?id=72
In reply to neilh:
From Horseshoe to Harpur Hill by Gary Gibson, a BMC guidebook... covers the Matlock Area, as well as Horseshoe and the Buxton Area.
750 mid-grade sport climbs.
From Horseshoe to Harpur Hill by Gary Gibson, a BMC guidebook... covers the Matlock Area, as well as Horseshoe and the Buxton Area.
750 mid-grade sport climbs.
In reply to cider nut:
I thought that happened to me so the next time I brought a load of different T-shirts to the crag. Bad idea.
In reply to Simon Lee:
It's alright. It did look -like- I was having a dig at VG.
I thought that happened to me so the next time I brought a load of different T-shirts to the crag. Bad idea.
In reply to Simon Lee:
It's alright. It did look -like- I was having a dig at VG.
In reply to Monk:
It has been argued by the local grapevine that the Pokketz were only brought into being as a result of Alan James getting wind of the Vertebrate Guide.
I suspect that isn't fair but Vertebrate certainly were working on this guide (and talking to me about advertising rates etc) long before I heard of the Pokketz. We can hardly rubbish them for not wanting to scrap their efforts just because someone else was faster.
Iain
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> Hmmm.... I just wrote a scathing reply regarding saturation of the market and a clear clash with the Rockfax Pockets guides.
>
> Hmmm.... I just wrote a scathing reply regarding saturation of the market and a clear clash with the Rockfax Pockets guides.
It has been argued by the local grapevine that the Pokketz were only brought into being as a result of Alan James getting wind of the Vertebrate Guide.
I suspect that isn't fair but Vertebrate certainly were working on this guide (and talking to me about advertising rates etc) long before I heard of the Pokketz. We can hardly rubbish them for not wanting to scrap their efforts just because someone else was faster.
Iain
In reply to IainWhitehouse:
Iain
Monk who you were replying to gave a flattering view of this guidebook.
"Hmmm.... I just wrote a scathing reply regarding saturation of the market and a clear clash with the Rockfax Pockets guides.
But I deleted it. I do think the market is saturated for guides to routes, but having looked at the website, this does look to be a beautiful guidebook, and I would love to get my hands on a copy to see what it is like. I like the idea of limestone and grit being included in the same guide, and some bouldering too. I also think that the chosen grade range is a pretty good one for the target audience. I deleted my initial reply as I think that this guide may actually be the best select guide to the Peak District if you want just one guide book for everything (and judging by the number of people who own On Peak Rock, that is a lot of people).
I'll reserve further judgment until I see a copy, but it does look promising.
However, I really do think there is a large market for a low grade bouldering guidebook. Many of the easier lines from Fax09 were not included in the VG book and replaced with a comment about finding easier lines for yourself. I think this is elitist and many of the climbers I know and see about can't climb V2/5+ which leaves a large number of problems currently only in the new BMC guides. I'd love to see a lower grade bouldering guide."
I will add that, grade banded guidebooks are far from new and pre-date the Pokketz.
Best not to get fixated on who is first, many do, but on what the publication offers.
I think grade-banded guidebooks are great.
Mick
Iain
Monk who you were replying to gave a flattering view of this guidebook.
"Hmmm.... I just wrote a scathing reply regarding saturation of the market and a clear clash with the Rockfax Pockets guides.
But I deleted it. I do think the market is saturated for guides to routes, but having looked at the website, this does look to be a beautiful guidebook, and I would love to get my hands on a copy to see what it is like. I like the idea of limestone and grit being included in the same guide, and some bouldering too. I also think that the chosen grade range is a pretty good one for the target audience. I deleted my initial reply as I think that this guide may actually be the best select guide to the Peak District if you want just one guide book for everything (and judging by the number of people who own On Peak Rock, that is a lot of people).
I'll reserve further judgment until I see a copy, but it does look promising.
However, I really do think there is a large market for a low grade bouldering guidebook. Many of the easier lines from Fax09 were not included in the VG book and replaced with a comment about finding easier lines for yourself. I think this is elitist and many of the climbers I know and see about can't climb V2/5+ which leaves a large number of problems currently only in the new BMC guides. I'd love to see a lower grade bouldering guide."
I will add that, grade banded guidebooks are far from new and pre-date the Pokketz.
Best not to get fixated on who is first, many do, but on what the publication offers.
I think grade-banded guidebooks are great.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I know. I was just replying to a specific point that he and others raised about it's perceived competition with Pokketz. I personally think they are different enough not to compete and in any case competition in a commercial sector is generally thought to be a good thing isn't it?
Of course they are and do. Again, I was replying to a specific (perceived) clash not dissing the genre.
I'm not fixated Mick, just adding to the debate.
> (In reply to IainWhitehouse)
>
> Iain
>
> Monk who you were replying to gave a flattering view of this guidebook.
>
> Iain
>
> Monk who you were replying to gave a flattering view of this guidebook.
I know. I was just replying to a specific point that he and others raised about it's perceived competition with Pokketz. I personally think they are different enough not to compete and in any case competition in a commercial sector is generally thought to be a good thing isn't it?
> I will add that, grade banded guidebooks are far from new and pre-date the Pokketz.
Of course they are and do. Again, I was replying to a specific (perceived) clash not dissing the genre.
> Best not to get fixated on who is first, many do, but on what the publication offers.
I'm not fixated Mick, just adding to the debate.
In reply to IainWhitehouse:
I'm sure. Some are though.
I'll pop down this week, I'm in town.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> I'm not fixated Mick, just adding to the debate.
I'm sure. Some are though.
I'll pop down this week, I'm in town.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that almost all the ones I've seen seem to split somewhere part way through the range of grades I'm interested in..............
I'd always though that the ideal grade range for this kind of thing might be the kind of Orange and Red spot Rockfax bands - HS-E3 (maybe even E2, I've seen a lot more people out on E2s than I have E3s) - since thats where a fairly large proportion of people seem to climb. I guess the counter-argument is all those VDiff classics out there which would be missed out, but then for me and a lot of the people i've met and/or climbed with the cutoff at HVS might be a bit frustrating since it leaves you with no documentation of the harder lines which you might wish to climb or aspire to climb.
AJM
> I think grade-banded guidebooks are great.
I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that almost all the ones I've seen seem to split somewhere part way through the range of grades I'm interested in..............
I'd always though that the ideal grade range for this kind of thing might be the kind of Orange and Red spot Rockfax bands - HS-E3 (maybe even E2, I've seen a lot more people out on E2s than I have E3s) - since thats where a fairly large proportion of people seem to climb. I guess the counter-argument is all those VDiff classics out there which would be missed out, but then for me and a lot of the people i've met and/or climbed with the cutoff at HVS might be a bit frustrating since it leaves you with no documentation of the harder lines which you might wish to climb or aspire to climb.
AJM
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...