UKC

Does anyone know where to get tech wash, hardshell and softshell re-proofers cheaper than in the shops? Maybe larger quantities? Thanks

In reply to bpmclimb: I was told at the weekend that Nikwax was basically the same as soap flakes. How true this is I don't know, but soap flakes are certainly available in greater volume and cheaper than Nikwax!

In reply to bpmclimb:

If you sign up and do a quiz on their website they will send you some for free - its not a huge amount but its worth doing imo.

In reply to bpmclimb: I have just paid £19.99 for a ltr bottle of Tech Wash... Is that too much?

In reply to Mita: Are you sure it wasn't £9.99?!! C-:

In reply to CarolineMc: I got the big bottle, I'm sure it was £19.99, or was that for something else I bought? mmm

In reply to Mita: Don't know if it's the normal price or not - but it's definitely too much!

In reply to bpmclimb: I've also heard that ecover washing products are good for washing technical clothing, is this true?

In reply to wiwwim:

I suspect the cheaper alternatives generally do the job, but when you've forked out so much for the technical clothing, you want to be sure you're not going to damage them.

Companies like Nikwax know this and that's why they can get away with the high prices, I suppose. Whether the products are significantly safer/better at the job - well, there may be some truth in it, but it's hard to say for sure.

In reply to bpmclimb: Soap flakes work very well. The trouble is you cannot generally put them in a normal washing machine (top loaders are OK but not modern front loaders) and so you need to wash by hand. If you have time to wash by hand you can get things just as clean as with a machine. The question is whether you can be bothered - I can't and have gone back to the more expensive tech wash. I certainly don't do two garments at a time though like it says on the label, I fill the machine.

In reply to kairenong: I've disolved soap flakes in warm water, and then tipped the soap mixture into the dispenser whilst the washer has been on. Which is still a bit of a faff, but much less than a faff than hand washing.

In reply to wiwwim:

Ecover products still contain detergents.

Soap flakes dissolved in hot water before chucking in the machine is the way to go on the washing front.

In reply to anyone:
I was going to use nikwash and the tech thing for my gortex stuff...do I leave them to dry naturally or can i put them on a low heat in the drier?

In reply to elsiem:

TxDirect doesn't need heat to activate. Nor does it incrase the life of the treatment.

In reply to bpmclimb:
Trail did a test a while back where they reproofed jackets using the proper stuff and compared them with jackets washed with fabric conditioner containing silicon and the fabric conditioner turned out to work better (they tested them at the techincal fabric testing centre at leeds uni). I cant remember any more detail than that but maybe someone has an old copy? Its certainly cheaper than Nikwax and you could combine with soapflakes for washing

In reply to CarolineMc: Sorry McStig, I had a look last night and you are right, it was only £9.99 for the Tech Wash....

In reply to bpmclimb:
discussion here with a guy from Trail about the findings fo using fabric conditioner to reproof

http://www.livefortheoutdoors.com/Community-Landing/Forum-Landing/Forum-Cat...

In reply to Mita:

Field & Trek are doing 20% off everything at the moment and that includes the sort of stuff that you don't normally see discounted. I've stocked up on loads of Nikwax product and picked up a Satmap for £240, by far the cheapest I've seen anywhere, though it's pot luck as to whether a store has them in. They don't appear on their web site

In reply to ayuplass:

The relevant section is a long, poorly formatted post:

"[Graham Thompson]It should be noted that Comfort Fabric conditioner, is not recommended by any manufactures and that some products state on the care label that fabric conditioner should not be used on them. Therefore it is possible that fabric conditioner may adversely effect the materials of the jacket if it is used. Therefore I would suggest that Comfort Fabric Conditioner is not recommended to be used on waterproof clothing, even though it provides a high level of water repellency."

I wouldn't use fabric conditioner on waterproof clothing because:

a) I'm not sure I'd trust anything Trail had to say
b) the formulations of things like Comfort change on a regular basis. Who knows whether the stuff on the shelf is the same as what was tested?

In reply to captain paranoia:

"I'm not sure I'd Trust anything Trail had to say"

When it comes to bearings of the Ben I tend to agree, but if you care to look at the article in Trail you may find the research and testing was done by Leeds Universities world respected fabric tech department. While you may chose to laugh at boffins in ivory towers you may find that not only do they test designs and fabrics for companies ranging from Alpkit to Mountain Equipment but the people they train work for Sprayway, paramo etc etc.

Trail employed Leeds to do further testing that showed how limited the DWR is when a garment is reproofed.

So my monies on those stumblers and bumblers at Trail, just not their compass work.

PS it's been an open secret in the outdoor trade for at least 15 years that pure soap flakes are as effective as branded cleaning products. So the Leeds research was no great news.

In reply to Simon Wells:


Yes, I know who did the research, and I'm familiar with the work and reputation of Leeds.

What worries me is the way in which Trail may have reported that research. After all, I don't have access to Leeds original reports, so can't examine their methodology, or know who actually performed them. And I'm not prepared to rely on Trail's interpretation.

Anyway, my primrary objection is the variation in formulation. At least with the priorietary products, I know they've been designed to work as a DWR, and not to make towels appear fluffy (for a while, at least...)

In reply to captain paranoia: was a test done to see how the moisture transpiration was effected by the different DWR treatments?

most accept a clean jacket is better than a dirty one, but after that i am not aware of evidence regarding a fabric softener and how it effects the breathability

In reply to bpmclimb: http://www.surplusandadventure.com/shopscr2108960.html

In reply to captain paranoia:
"Yes, I know who did the research, and I'm familiar with the work and reputation of Leeds."

Excellent! So you'll have no problems excepting the research? Or are you prejudiced because the words are printed in a magazine you choose not to like?

"my primrary objection is the variation"
Well why not test it? you could proof one jacket with comfort and one with a branded product and do a test in real conditions, bring a mate along or maybe two and have a control.

I've been using non-branded products that make "towels look fluffy" for a number of years, not just at weekends but f/t in the full spectrum of conditions and I've found my anecdotal experience backs up Leeds research published in Trail. Yep, pure soap and the right comfort last about 30 hours of use.

But I'm keen for people to pay full price for branded products as a small percentage will get put back into R & D and hopefully improve the products and then I might go back to them. So please do not tell anyone else, lets keep it a secret just like the BMG who told me about pure soap flakes in 1993. SSSHHHHHhhh!

Its interesting that such a shockingly kitch magazine such as Trail keeps on coming up with such relevant information, not just DWR and proofing agents but the UV resistance of tents. Other 'series' mags never seem to run such articles. Wonder why?

In reply to bpmclimb: Nikwax/Grangers techwash is just a pure soap. You cant use the normal detergent you use for your normal clothes, ie persil,etc, because it has lots of additives in it to make clothes look brighter, etc... These products wash far to aggressively and will scrub the DWR coating off your jacket.

All you need is a pure soap, something like lux flakes that you can buy in the supermarket is exactley the same as techwash. Only time you might want to avoid using this is if your washing down or softshell garments as the washer that nikwax make specifically for them use a much lower concentration of soap than in the standard techwash.

You can get a box of soap flakes from sainsburys for a couple of quid!

In reply to Simon Wells:


Since I've not seen the original research, I'm hard pushed to accept or reject it.

I'm prejudiced against the magazine, not because I choose not to like it, but because I have seen too many errors and inaccuracies reported in it.

In reply to bpmclimb:

I bought 3 litres of both tech wash and the reproofing stuff direct from nikwax for about 30 quid...that was about 4 years ago and I've still got loads left, probably enough to see me through next winter.