/ UK Bolt Fund Appeal
To date, rebolting seems to have remained the province of the few – although, with workshops, this will hopefully change. Understandably most of us are nervous about placing bolts; there’s more than a little skill involved.
There’s also considerable cost involved in rebolting. This cost has been borne by regional bolt funds and (again!) by local activists, the most notable being Pete Oxley (now emigrated) and Gary Gibson. It’s easy for us to do hundreds of routes that they’ve equipped while never giving a thought to the costs involved. It’s a bit like having permanent free outdoor climbing walls that mysteriously maintain themselves.
My suggestion is to have a centralised website (ukboltfund.org??) with listings of different regional bolt funds (or links to their websites). The re-equippers could be groups or individuals. The funds would not be for new routes, unless otherwise stated. Any retro-bolting would have to be democratically agreed.
Thus Freda Bloggs could send a donation to Area X. Unless she wanted anonymity, her name and donation could be listed periodically (quarterly?) with subsequent periodic reporting of what was achieved. Ideally she could see her money being used well. The re-equippers would be funded. The crags would benefit.
What do people think?
see further down.
It's a really important issue to raise, Mick. We have a dedicated webpage for UK bolt funds on the BMC website. Currently active funds can be contacted via this. There are some other groups and activists who could probably be added to this - just send me the details people. I'm sure that there are probably webpages and wikis as well, detailing the latest news from different areas, which could be linked.
Instead of yet another website, why not have a sticky forum thread, or premier post supplied free by UKC, with quarterly updates from bolt funds? If people can see where their money has been spent, they'll be more likely to donate again. Make no mistake, money is needed. The BMC donated 10K last year, which hardly touched the sides as it went down!
There's the issue of recruitment as well. Some areas have bolts, drills and donated funds. Just nobody to do the work! Hence the focus on running some workshops. A permanent premier post could help alert potential recruits to training events etc.
Finally, you mention democratic agreement for retrobolting. Again, this system is already in place - BMC area meetings (complete with free chips etc).
Hi Dan, Many thanks for your reply. There's certainly an argument that this ought to reside on the BMC website which, as a member, I should visit more. < embarrassed cough >
I asked Mick about this a couple of months back and, while he was undoubtedly sympathetic to the cause, he didn't seem to think it appropriate. Maybe we could ask him again...
I think this is the nub of the argument. I just think that feedback loops are motivating! You think, "I gave 'em £10 last time, well they made bloody good use of it, might give 'em £20 next time... or a day's work."
I just put that in to pre-empt nasty anti-bolting posts. Looks like we had one deleted.
Really all I'm suggesting is a well publicised, well updated central access point where people can go to and get involved regionally. It would be good if this could run in tandem with crag cleanups.
I've added links to the Slate and North Wales Limestone wikis to the page, so you can now access up to date info on routes in these area. You can report damaged bolts, missing holds etc, and also find out if a route has been re-equiped or is scheduled to be.
cosidering all the work I have done, which is considerably more than most in the Peak, South Wales, Wye Valley, Clwyd and Mid Wales is there any chance of putting my name on the BMC list? The Peak bolt fund doesn't seem to function properly despite its good intentions and I have loads of areas I am about to re-equip: Masson Lees, Cawdor Quarry - which incidentally has cleaned up - Harpur Hill, Crag X, some at Clwyd etc. And these are areas for the masses rather than just the high7s/8s climber.
My home address is Keristone, Carr Bank, Oakamoor, Stoke-on-Trent, Staffs. ST10 3DG
You might want to email your address rather than listing it on an open forum.
The local system that operates in most places means that people can choose where there money goes, and in the case of North Wales they have seen that money go to what some believe good use, whilst other can and will criticise what has gone on. What the local funds do allow is local debate through BMC area meetings, and awareness of the work that has gone on through websites.
The north wales bolt fund has done well, probably on the back of the many people that have been involved in the process, which has lead to an obvious change in use of some areas in and around the area, from not only the slate, but various limestone venues that you will no doubt be made aware of when the developments are complete.
Most of the money that comes into the North Wales bolt fund, and funds like the dorset fund, as far as i am aware is through the activitist basically shaking a collection tin at crags and large events like the Tremadog Fest, LLAMFF, Gogarth Fest, etc... Whilst there are cash and cheque donations made to the funds it is more about getting 100 climbers to donate £2 each.
I may be wrong as I don't know how the Peak Bolt Fund(?It might be another fund from over that way?) that set up a paypal account fair on attracting donations that way.
It is a valid question to put to UKC, however the 'think globally, act locally' approach is hopefully working.
Good point Gary about the popularity of the 6 grades. Peak district quarry climbing on bolt protection is a branch of climbing with many devotees in the Peak and from outside.
In my view, the main funding for Peak bolting should be raised in the Peak area , and you should be certainly included as a special case for financial support.
Some of us would also be more than willing to get out there and do some of the work!
Mark, thanks for your contribution. All I was suggesting was a national portal (website/premier post/access point) which would devolve to the regions. If you lived and climbed in Dorset, you might choose to send your money there. Alternatively, if you'ld just been up to North Wales/Clwyd, you might like to send your money there. Either way, you'ld get some kind of feedback as to what resulted.
I'm glad that what you're doing in Wales is working. The last time I saw the local collection tin in Dorset was seven years ago, so it's about time I put in a contribution! Meanwhile Gary (and others?) struggle on.
It would be good if we would access the undoubted power of UKC to help. There are a few well heeled people on here who could afford quite a bit. There are lots of skint students who could carpool and help out with physical work. And we could all consider what we pay on a visit to a climbing wall (£5 to £10 with tea and buns for a dozen routes?) versus what we contribute towards a dozen routes outside - usually sod all!
Just some thoughts... What you and others have done in Wales sounds great. The personal abuse you got last year was well out of order. Hopefully some people have come to their senses.
> Lots of local bolt funds in the USA and then some national ones too.
Can somebody please give a simple, but accurate explanation of how the equipping and re-equipping get funded and done in France/Spain etc?
Not sure this is 100% accurate but I think that local councils fund approved climbers to bolt - on the basis that it adds to the infrastructure and encourages climbing tourism. I guess we could ask David Mora, for instance, as to what happens on the Costa Blanca.
Hi John, did your new routes on the New Cuttings with Jon. The slab's a real gem. It's going to give so many people such a fun outing, rather than the more normal New Cuttings experience of, "I've been here half an hour; I'm sure I'll be leaving the ground some time soon..."
With Portland, there certainly is a case for the local council to chip in. Sadly, they're more likely to try and ban climbing, when the local scallies finally manage to kill someone by lobbing stuff off the top.
I was replying to the previous poster's query about continental ways more out of politeness than anything else. I don't think that we have the same commitment to creating infrastructure in this country (but it would be great to be proved wrong!) Meanwhile Gary (and Pete in the past) struggle on. Ain't right somehow.
I'll give you a shout over the weekend. Be good to get out.
All best wishes,
If the bolt fund could be made a charitbale organisation the tax could also be reclaimed. I don't know enough about the legislation to know if this is possible but might be worht a go.
Good idea. If we can just get a highly visible central access point (a portal) that people can use to make regional donations, then we can refine it.
This is pretty much what happens, climbing/crags are seen as being of great benefit to an area, well worth the investment..
on another point, why couldn't the BMC act as a wholesale hanger supplier, spending £10,000 would allow them to deal direct with the likes of petzl fixe etc. thus driving the price down to rock bottom, these could then be purchased by the relevant bolt funds saving them ££££'s
I don't buy hangers in this country as they are too expensive. I bring them back from France. For my last two projects
I purchased 300 hangers 10mm fixe passivate or chromate these cost 60cents each or 49pence at todays rate I also bought 70 stainless steel 10mm they cost 1 euro or 82pence, this is from a shop where the guy is making a profit aswell... can someone tell me where i can buy hangers in this country at these prices???
I prefer to go it alone in South Wales as the rules and reg's laid down by the local SWMC/bolt funds?? as to how their gear is used is too restrictive
On the wholesale idea, maybe, although most bolt funds with a bit of nous seem to already have arranged trade deals with suppliers.
Whats the restriction problem in S.Wales? I was at a meeting the other week and things sounded very positive from all concerned, inc. the SWMC. Email me direct, I may be able to help.
Well, I'll be...
Gilwern Hill crags eh? Blimey. I used to play about on those when I was a kid growing up in Govilon in the early 70's.
Good effort. I will have to have a ganders next time I'm over.
yes i was at the meeting aswell, the SwMc only allow their gear to be used for re-equipping retro bolting.... no new routing..
go to newsletter spring 2008 read their article on 'The club and fixed gear'
In 'restrictive' i mean you have to pass through a number of hoops before you can get started. I prefer to own all my own gear provide all my own hardware thus by by-passing the hoops..
yep... proving to be a very popular crag... lots of low to middle grade routes in a very nice setting, one of the best crag views in south wales i think... just need some warmer weather as it can be chilly at 400mts asl.
I'll be waiting for the next heat wave before heading up there.
I've had tooo many brass monkey days at Llangattock as it is.
On the topic of buying whole sale from fixe, in el chorro the fixe hangers that the shop owner puts up are all engraved with the El chorro logo and name, infact I got two sat next me now, I paid around 60cents for these aswell.
If there was to be bulk buying either buy the BMC, a local bolt fun or from a national collective, The then the BMC name or otherwise could be put on the hangers, this gives people a good sense of where there money is going as when they climb they see BMC (or other name) bolts. This will also work as a confidence thing (in theory), ensuring people the bolts they are climbing on have been placed properally and safely.
Totally off the subject, anybody happen to know what the compressive strength is of St Bees Sandstone? I'm specifying a suitable bolt for this type of rock, and the alternative is heading up there and doing some test installations.
> On the topic of buying whole sale from fixe, in el chorro the fixe hangers that the shop owner puts up are all engraved with the El chorro logo and name, infact I got two sat next me now, I paid around 60cents for these aswell.
> If there was to be bulk buying either buy the BMC, a local bolt fun or from a national collective, The then the BMC name or otherwise could be put on the hangers, this gives people a good sense of where there money is going as when they climb they see BMC (or other name) bolts. This will also work as a confidence thing (in theory), ensuring people the bolts they are climbing on have been placed properally and safely.
the ones i bought recently have faders stamped on them, i think it would help stop any theiving, i had 35 hangers taken from routes last year, they were plain fixe so hard to tell if they turned up some where else, a logo would alert anyone if they turned up on some new route elsewhere
Faders are another indipendant company are they not? not related to fixe.
BMC engraved (or other agreed name) would also stop people getting "chop-happy" as the fact "offical bolts" have been supplyed suggests a concensous has been made as to the suitability of placing the said bolt/bolts.
Just an idea, but i'm sure its not a difficult or challanging idea to pursue.
> Faders are another indipendant company are they not? not related to fixe.
> BMC engraved (or other agreed name) would also stop people getting "chop-happy" as the fact "offical bolts" have been supplyed suggests a concensous has been made as to the suitability of placing the said bolt/bolts.
> Just an idea, but i'm sure its not a difficult or challanging idea to pursue.
yep faders are independent... fixe produced hangers for faders who failed to complete on the deal... my guy in france buys up the lot sells them for 60 cents each perfect....
another good suggestion for a logo
Ah your on a winner!
We should deffinatly push the idea, (if anyone from the BMC is reading)
With the amounts I use, and believe me they are a lot more than anybody else, I can't afford not to find the cheapest deal.
Last year I did 140 new routes and the majority had fixed gear in them, so with that number perhaps you see the reason why I can't afford them to be expensive: and this year I'm already up to 50+.
I must spend £1500, or more, a year on new routes and re-equipping on the gear front alone and that doesn't account for drill bits, petrol etc.
We did give this idea serious consideration, when we were looking at buying bolts for repairing lower offs at Pen Trwyn, and those we bought for the Better Bolts Campaign.
Why didn't we? Well, and it sounds daft, but it is a serious point, we were worried that people would blindly assume that if it had an official BMC stamp on it, then people might start making assumptions about the integrity of such anchors, and relinquish responsibility for checking their condition themselves before using them.
Sorry to be a killjoy!
Sorry mate, but I think you're being a little naive. If people are of a mind to chop bolts then they won't give a damn who placed them or who agreed to it.
If that was in South Wales Paul, then you're only going to find your stolen 'branded' or 'logo'd' hangers down a cave.
It ain't climbers nicking them
> >i had 35 hangers taken from routes last year, they were plain fixe so hard to tell if they turned up some where else, a logo would alert anyone if they turned up on some new route elsewhere
> If that was in South Wales Paul, then you're only going to find your stolen 'branded' or 'logo'd' hangers down a cave.
> It ain't climbers nicking them
yeah.. that's what we thought but no way of proving it... the way they had been stripped was very unusual, very random.
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