UKC

Hi all
I was out after work today with Roger Webb. We were climbing in Corrie an Sneachda between Patey's Route and Alladins Mirror Direct. We had just climbed a great new pitch "Here today, gone today" 35m HS when i suggested to Roger that he should trundle this large perched block that looked dangeriously unstable a few metres away from my belay off to the side.

It had some tat on it (presumably from the winter) but looked like it would go if some one sneezed on it never mind abbed off it. He went over and it fell with a very slight prod. However the ensuing rock fall was a bit more than we intended. We picked up some hitch-hikers on the way home who were on the other side of Cairngorm and heard the rockfall.

It seems to have affected the ground between Kurtykin's corner over toward but not at all at Alladins Mirror Direct (routes 23 to 27?). I don't have the new guide book handy but a lot of rock has come down. The rib i was belayed on thankfully didn't go but it did move and settle and it was a bit of a fight to get the belay back out as everything had shifted. The ledge Roger was stood on just below and to the side did fall off and he was sort of running up the cliff on colaspsing blocks (think keystone cops and you have then mental image)

I would recomend staying away from this area this winter and if you are going into Alladins Mirror this winter, wait for a good freeze and lots of snow to fill up the fresh debris in the gully. This area has been known to be loose is undergoing a bad period of instability. I have some pictures that i will try and up load tommorow late afternoon.

Otherwise quite a nice evening out after work.

Stay safe out there people!

James e

In reply to James Edwards: the corrie could do with a complete overhaul of new routes, bit like a climbing wall. Keep up the good work!

In reply to James Edwards:

Yikes! Are you sure you're not some kind of Jonah when is comes to rock fall, what with the Dru thing as well?! Thinks I might stay away from you on future.

See you in Wales the week after next.

In reply to James Edwards: bl**dy vandal! I don't know destroting classic routes. Hope you're well, haven't seen you for quite while, saw Miles and Alice a few weeks ago in the Lakes. Seem to be doing mor mountain biking than climbing at the minute, have moe or less stopped winter climbing due to dodgy ankles, far to much effort and suffering,

Take care with those loose blocks!
Gareth

In reply to James Edwards:

How big was the block with tat on it...!

Is the lower start of Terms of Endearment about 5-10 metres up and right Patey's affected - the jumbled fin of wedged blocks on the RHS of the rib?

How is the popular summer walker and scramblers approach to Pygmy Ridge up via the Mirror gully affected or should it be avoided?

Could you post some photos with lines and arrows on them indicating the damaged area and where the blocks fell from.

Glad you are both ok

In reply to SuperTed:

So it was Jame's that trundled a wee loose block off the Dru that caused the whole face to collapse you think he would have learned better...!!!!!

;-0

In reply to Ron Walker: I'm sorry to say that start to terms of endearment is no more, or at least radically different.

There's a large block (fresh from last night) poised about two metres above mirror gully about two metres right of terms of endearment that looks highly suspect and threatens the start of the gully. It could do with trundling but I really didn't fancy a repeat performance. The amount of abseil tat that went was quite sobering.

In reply to James Edwards:

This sounds like the area on the right hand side of Terms of Endearment that I flagged up last winter as seeming very loose.

In reply to rogerwebb:
>

... and just after the SMC have published their new guide. How incnosiderate

In reply to James Edwards:

I guess you are lucky he doesn't practice civil law!

Have put some rough info shots on www.highmountaineering.com my dormant website. Hope this info helps.

James e

In reply to James Edwards:

Not as bad as I'd thought but the lower start of Terms of Endearment might need re-grading not that it was ever grade III IMHO.

Looks as though the gully approach to the Mirror and Pygmy Ridge need even more care though.

BTW the furry red and yellow speckled 9 mm rope tat was mine from about three seasons ago...!

Cheers Ron

In reply to Ron Walker:

What do you reckon Tearms of Endearment is?

In reply to Donald M:

The easiest variation I've found is at least 4 in normal conditions as far as I am concerned but I'm hopeless at climbing and grading...!
I've done so many variations of the route to try and find the grade III line!!!!!

In reply to Ron Walker:

I did it about 6 years ago but can't rememember much about it. I do remember some tricky bits trying to surmount shelfs and things.

In reply to Donald M:

I did the route several times one winter and within a few days the difference between having some consolidated snow and the mantle onto the granite slab after the techy mixed and before the blocky fin that has now collapsed was quite different. If that makes sense!!

A lot of the mixed routes are a bit like that though - a bit of ice here and a bit of neve there and the whole character and grade has changed.

Correctly judging the conditions is the great thing about winter climbing

In reply to Ron Walker:

When I worked at Glenmore Lodge in 1987/88, I used to do it every other week with groups, usually with them leading and me soloing ahead. It was good because it was short (takes a while with beginners doing their own ropework) and included an abseil (OK you don't need to, but abseiling into The lower Mirror saved me worrying about them on exposed Grade I). Also it was low in the grade - I think it was originally II/III. But the essentail thing is that the first step of Patey's Route was banked out, which it never is nowadays. So you would climb a pitch up Patey's Route, then traverse out along a ledge on to the crest. The direct start only appeared later and I'm sure is harder, but I've never done it. But looking at James's photos, it looks a lot easier than it was, climbing up through the rockfall. So maybe it will be a III again. But of course will need to be well frozen!

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


Changed days....

I seem to remember the Mirror Direct as grade II in the Hamish MacInnes guidebook.

I've got a photo of Coire an t-Sneachda from sometime in the eighties where the Mess of Pottage was almost banked out and only the main buttress of Aladdin's is visible from the steep snow slopes on either side.

In reply to James Edwards:

"We had just climbed a great new pitch "Here today, gone today" 35m HS "

Hey James, glad you're having fun. 'Gone today, Climbed 10 years ago' (in a lean winter)... always assumed it was a (desperate) variation start to Terms of Enderament. And unless you found an old hex of mine in the crack, I guess a fair few others have been there too over the years!

Mark

In reply to Ron Walker:
>


Ah, very interesting. I'll have to confess that I have only done a handful of winter routes of grade III or above, so I'm no seasoned expert of anything like it. But one of my first mixed leads was The Haston Line,graded III,4, on the Mess O' Pottage. It seemed, shall we say, rather adventurous in places (in a good way, you understand) including the initial traverse before the corner, the corner itself, and the ground above that. Directly compared with Invernookie, for example, it was way more serious. In banked-out condition I imagine it was a rather less worrying proposition.

In reply to Astral Highway:

Graded IV,4 in the new Cairngorms guide

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

I did my first ascents of the Haston line and Invernookie on successive days and thought they were of very similar difficulty, although the latter was probably more sustained.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

Thanks Andy, that's good to know. When did this new guide come out? Did you contribute? What do you reckon to it?

In reply to Jamie B.:

Hi Jamie, that's interesting. I'm just thinking about the relative aspects of these climbs, and I suppose they do actually face in completely different directions, an are perhaps almost 180 degrees to each other. So depending on the history of recent snowfall when we both climbed them, they could each have been very different in character. I'm allowing for the fact that you also climbed them very close together.

I climbed 'nookie first and Haston the following day, with little change in conditions overnight. Whereas the initial easy snows of Haston up to that first little step were deep, the traverse itself was extremely bare, as well as the corner.

Invernookie was everywhere much snowier but looking down at it from the Seam a couple of years ago, it was then extremely lean indeed.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

I'm thinking Grade III is a vanishing grade in the 'Gorms - it seems as if all mixed Grade IIIs are becoming Grade IVs - and more suited to longer snowier/icier lines.

In reply to george mc:

No, you're safe. I've put Haston Line back to III,4 in the selected guide

In reply to Jamie B.:

See the previous response. I agree with you that they are much the same. And yes, Invernookie is more sustained

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

Whew!