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Just reported about 20 mins ago on his blog.
http://www.sonnietrotter.com/roadlife.php
I expect there might be some more comment on it soon; however, given his penchant for reflective prose, it might not be the grade-affirming/refuting comment that some (including myself) are looking for. Ah well.
Pete.
http://www.sonnietrotter.com/roadlife.php
I expect there might be some more comment on it soon; however, given his penchant for reflective prose, it might not be the grade-affirming/refuting comment that some (including myself) are looking for. Ah well.
Pete.
In reply to PeteH:
A fine effort, well done.
A fine effort, well done.
In reply to PeteH:
Brilliant effort - great to see what determination gets you (plus a bit of talent I guess).
Brilliant effort - great to see what determination gets you (plus a bit of talent I guess).
In reply to PeteH:
Huge congratulations to Sonnie! What an absolutely fantastic effort. It's been nailbiting!
Davie
Huge congratulations to Sonnie! What an absolutely fantastic effort. It's been nailbiting!
Davie
In reply to PeteH:
It's been great following the story to it's nailbiting conclusion.
Good work Sonnie.. you've earned it dude!
It's been great following the story to it's nailbiting conclusion.
Good work Sonnie.. you've earned it dude!
In reply to PeteH:
Awesome. An epic effort: 24 fifty foot falls ....! I don't normally get worked up about other people's climbing but this news made my morning.
Symmetry and Scottish/ British honour must now demand that Dave Macleod spends the summer in Squamish trying for the repeat on Cobra Crack after his slideshow there in July ( http://www.squamishmountainfest.com/speakers.asp ). Maybe a UKC fund needs to be set up? I can offer accommodation in August at the non-ghetto end of town ...
Awesome. An epic effort: 24 fifty foot falls ....! I don't normally get worked up about other people's climbing but this news made my morning.
Symmetry and Scottish/ British honour must now demand that Dave Macleod spends the summer in Squamish trying for the repeat on Cobra Crack after his slideshow there in July ( http://www.squamishmountainfest.com/speakers.asp ). Maybe a UKC fund needs to be set up? I can offer accommodation in August at the non-ghetto end of town ...
In reply to tobyfk:
..there's a non-ghetto end?
> I can offer accommodation in August at the non-ghetto end of town ...
..there's a non-ghetto end?
In reply to PeteH:
btw - i look forward to news of dave mac having had a go at the cobra crack.. i don't think it's really his style though.
btw - i look forward to news of dave mac having had a go at the cobra crack.. i don't think it's really his style though.
In reply to PeteH: Inspiring start to the day... it has been nailbiting just reading his accounts, 'will he won't he' well Sonnie has... stunning
In reply to supafly:
What Dave 'The All-Rounder'?
Great effort to Sonnie, that's brill news. I look forward to hearing about 'the grade'!
> (In reply to PeteH)
>
> btw - i look forward to news of dave mac having had a go at the cobra crack.. i don't think it's really his style though.
>
> btw - i look forward to news of dave mac having had a go at the cobra crack.. i don't think it's really his style though.
What Dave 'The All-Rounder'?
Great effort to Sonnie, that's brill news. I look forward to hearing about 'the grade'!
In reply to PeteH:
Good effort there Sonnie.
So now you have warmed up a bit, are you coming down this way to do some proper climbing on grit
Good effort there Sonnie.
So now you have warmed up a bit, are you coming down this way to do some proper climbing on grit
In reply to PeteH:
Wow, what amazing news! I knew he'd get it in the end...
Wow, what amazing news! I knew he'd get it in the end...
In reply to PeteH: I knew he'd complete it, it was only a case of 'when', and he wouldn't leave until then.. and so he has
"Well done that man! Very well done!!"
"Well done that man! Very well done!!"
In reply to Mokkel: I wonder if this thread will be 100's of posts long by the time I get home at school end time!
Well done SonnieT, brilliant!
Well done SonnieT, brilliant!
In reply to PeteH: What a beast, what an inspiration - nice job Sonnie!
In reply to PeteH:
Excellent effort - well done Sonnie & Team!
(How's Cory getting on with Requiem?)
Excellent effort - well done Sonnie & Team!
(How's Cory getting on with Requiem?)
In reply to PeteH:
Top effort from what seems like a top bloke.
Congratz on the repeat Sonnie, and guid luck on whatever you decide to tackle next.
See you back in a couple of years for the Echo Wall repeat?
Top effort from what seems like a top bloke.
Congratz on the repeat Sonnie, and guid luck on whatever you decide to tackle next.
See you back in a couple of years for the Echo Wall repeat?
In reply to PeteH:
>"Sonnie Trotter bags second ascent of Rhapsody"
Cool! Hard work justly rewarded...
>"Sonnie Trotter bags second ascent of Rhapsody"
Cool! Hard work justly rewarded...
In reply to Nic: lol. Well done sonnie!
In reply to PeteH:
you have to read between the lines . . .
On top, I stood on cloud nine. I still am. Cloud ten maybe even, if there is such a thing.
;¬)
>
> http://www.sonnietrotter.com/roadlife.php
> . . . given his penchant for reflective prose, it might not be the grade-affirming/refuting comment that some (including myself) are looking for. Ah well.
> http://www.sonnietrotter.com/roadlife.php
> . . . given his penchant for reflective prose, it might not be the grade-affirming/refuting comment that some (including myself) are looking for. Ah well.
you have to read between the lines . . .
On top, I stood on cloud nine. I still am. Cloud ten maybe even, if there is such a thing.
;¬)
In reply to PeteH: hats off to him - especially for doing Dave's "eliminate" line rather than the easier options he found. A good way to knock any controversy on the head.
In reply to Northern Alliance Commander:
He did both.
Rhapsody and Direquiem a new finish to the Requiem crack.
> (In reply to PeteH) hats off to him - especially for doing Dave's "eliminate" line rather than the easier options he found. A good way to knock any controversy on the head.
He did both.
Rhapsody and Direquiem a new finish to the Requiem crack.
In reply to PeteH:
cool - was just reading through his blog entries since last week and was genuinely surprised, and relieved, when he did it. Who says climbing isn't a spectator sport...
cool - was just reading through his blog entries since last week and was genuinely surprised, and relieved, when he did it. Who says climbing isn't a spectator sport...
In reply to PeteH:
32 posts and as yet no one has asked what he's done on grit......
32 posts and as yet no one has asked what he's done on grit......
In reply to PeteH: Well done that man.
Im glad he stuck around to finish the big one after climbing Requiem and Direquiem... unlike the others who seemed to turn up, have a look at the line, turn there noses up and go home!
Sonnie seems like a really nice bloke. Bravo
Sonnie seems like a really nice bloke. Bravo
In reply to rich:
Nice idea, but I suspect too cryptic and the space between his lines is just that - space. I don't think he'll comment on the grade. Yet.
> (In reply to PeteH)
> [...]
>
> you have to read between the lines . . .
>
> On top, I stood on cloud nine. I still am. Cloud ten maybe even, if there is such a thing.
>
> ;¬)
> [...]
>
> you have to read between the lines . . .
>
> On top, I stood on cloud nine. I still am. Cloud ten maybe even, if there is such a thing.
>
> ;¬)
Nice idea, but I suspect too cryptic and the space between his lines is just that - space. I don't think he'll comment on the grade. Yet.
In reply to Fraser:
He already has.
Go on Fraser, speculate.
Direquiem, Trotter's Requiem Direct, weighs in at the North American grade of 5.14a R (proposed); 5.14a translates as sport 8b+ climbing and the 'R' means that you can expect long but safe falls if you lob.
Dave MacLeod said:
"It's the hardest link I've ever done, so harder than the F8cs and Font 8bs. 8c+? maybe, I haven't done one so I don't know. So we'll say 8c."
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=198
Sonnie said, "Rhapsody is basically a 5.13c/d (8a+/8b) into a V10/V11 (Font7c+/8a) "
http://www.sonnietrotter.com/roadlife.php
Looks like Rhapsody is 8c R - so no change.
Bring on the McClure.
> (In reply to rich)
> [...]
>
> Nice idea, but I suspect too cryptic and the space between his lines is just that - space. I don't think he'll comment on the grade. Yet.
> [...]
>
> Nice idea, but I suspect too cryptic and the space between his lines is just that - space. I don't think he'll comment on the grade. Yet.
He already has.
Go on Fraser, speculate.
Direquiem, Trotter's Requiem Direct, weighs in at the North American grade of 5.14a R (proposed); 5.14a translates as sport 8b+ climbing and the 'R' means that you can expect long but safe falls if you lob.
Dave MacLeod said:
"It's the hardest link I've ever done, so harder than the F8cs and Font 8bs. 8c+? maybe, I haven't done one so I don't know. So we'll say 8c."
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=198
Sonnie said, "Rhapsody is basically a 5.13c/d (8a+/8b) into a V10/V11 (Font7c+/8a) "
http://www.sonnietrotter.com/roadlife.php
Looks like Rhapsody is 8c R - so no change.
Bring on the McClure.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
>"Bring on the McClure."
He might as well do it this week to save Hotaches re-rigging the camera positions...
>"Bring on the McClure."
He might as well do it this week to save Hotaches re-rigging the camera positions...
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:So, as another excercise in pure speculation let's guess the grade of Direquiem.
E10? (Or could it still be E11, as it's only a wee bit easier?)
I'm just amazed that there's two feasible lines up that blank section of rock!
E10? (Or could it still be E11, as it's only a wee bit easier?)
I'm just amazed that there's two feasible lines up that blank section of rock!
In reply to Alasdair Fulton:
>"I'm just amazed that there's two feasible lines up that blank section of rock!"
Perhaps the video might show differently but from what I could see the 'Direquiem' link consisted of a stretch from the holds of 'Requiem' into the holds of 'Rhapsody'. I don't know that any extra holds were actually needed but like I say I'm sure the Hotaches video will reveal all.
>"I'm just amazed that there's two feasible lines up that blank section of rock!"
Perhaps the video might show differently but from what I could see the 'Direquiem' link consisted of a stretch from the holds of 'Requiem' into the holds of 'Rhapsody'. I don't know that any extra holds were actually needed but like I say I'm sure the Hotaches video will reveal all.
In reply to JLS: That sounds about right, Dave did seem to mention at some point that the line of Direquiem was a more direct line than Rhapsody, but that he felt it used too much of Requiem for his liking.
Either way, it now looks like Dumby has got 2 stonkingly hard routes that none of us will ever be able to climb!
Either way, it now looks like Dumby has got 2 stonkingly hard routes that none of us will ever be able to climb!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I shouldn't, but as a technical point on grades.....
Both these statements make it sound like 8c+ to me. Even if you take the lower of Sonnie's slash grades then 8a+ into 7C+ is pretty stiff for 8c, particularly when you're talking about a route of this length. If you take the higher (8b into 8A) then it's going to be 8c+ for definite.
If everyone cares so much then perhaps someone should ask Dave McLeod. As he has now climbed 8c+ and 9a he will probably have a better idea of what sport grade Rhapsody is?
Personally I don't really think it matters.
Great effort Sonnie! I'm very pleased that such a seemingly top bloke has achieved what he came for. Hope there's time for your mate to get Requiem ticked too.
>
> Dave MacLeod said:
>
> "It's the hardest link I've ever done, so harder than the F8cs and Font 8bs. 8c+? maybe, I haven't done one so I don't know. So we'll say 8c."
>
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=198
>
> Sonnie said, "Rhapsody is basically a 5.13c/d (8a+/8b) into a V10/V11 (Font7c+/8a) "
>
> Dave MacLeod said:
>
> "It's the hardest link I've ever done, so harder than the F8cs and Font 8bs. 8c+? maybe, I haven't done one so I don't know. So we'll say 8c."
>
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=198
>
> Sonnie said, "Rhapsody is basically a 5.13c/d (8a+/8b) into a V10/V11 (Font7c+/8a) "
>
I shouldn't, but as a technical point on grades.....
Both these statements make it sound like 8c+ to me. Even if you take the lower of Sonnie's slash grades then 8a+ into 7C+ is pretty stiff for 8c, particularly when you're talking about a route of this length. If you take the higher (8b into 8A) then it's going to be 8c+ for definite.
If everyone cares so much then perhaps someone should ask Dave McLeod. As he has now climbed 8c+ and 9a he will probably have a better idea of what sport grade Rhapsody is?
Personally I don't really think it matters.
Great effort Sonnie! I'm very pleased that such a seemingly top bloke has achieved what he came for. Hope there's time for your mate to get Requiem ticked too.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
What'sheeverdoneonegri-I'llgetmecoat.
> 32 posts and as yet no one has asked what he's done on grit......
What'sheeverdoneonegri-I'llgetmecoat.
In reply to seagull:
yes great effort. also fantastic that he is there supporting his mates easier project.
i also wouldn't underestimate the beneficial effect this will have on british trad climbing in terms of global exposure.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]
> > Great effort Sonnie! I'm very pleased that such a seemingly top bloke has achieved what he came for. Hope there's time for your mate to get Requiem ticked too.
> [...]
> > Great effort Sonnie! I'm very pleased that such a seemingly top bloke has achieved what he came for. Hope there's time for your mate to get Requiem ticked too.
yes great effort. also fantastic that he is there supporting his mates easier project.
i also wouldn't underestimate the beneficial effect this will have on british trad climbing in terms of global exposure.
>
> On top, I stood on cloud nine. I still am. Cloud ten maybe even, if there is such a thing
> On top, I stood on cloud nine. I still am. Cloud ten maybe even, if there is such a thing
Hmmmm
In reply to Morgan Woods:
'easier' being a relative term - Requiem still weighs in at E8, and was a contender for hardest trad route in the world when Cubby did it in 1983. If Cory succeeds on it, it'll only be the 6th or 7th repeat I think.
> (In reply to seagull)
> [...]
>
> yes great effort. also fantastic that he is there supporting his mates easier project.
> [...]
>
> yes great effort. also fantastic that he is there supporting his mates easier project.
'easier' being a relative term - Requiem still weighs in at E8, and was a contender for hardest trad route in the world when Cubby did it in 1983. If Cory succeeds on it, it'll only be the 6th or 7th repeat I think.
In reply to tony:
>"Cory succeeds on it, it'll only be the 6th or 7th repeat I think."
So who's done it?
Cubby
John Dunne
Dave Macleod
Alan Cassidy
Sonnie Trotter
Steve McClure?
(Bear in mind Cory is 'only' trying to climb it on preplaced gear)
>"Cory succeeds on it, it'll only be the 6th or 7th repeat I think."
So who's done it?
Cubby
John Dunne
Dave Macleod
Alan Cassidy
Sonnie Trotter
Steve McClure?
(Bear in mind Cory is 'only' trying to climb it on preplaced gear)
In reply to Bill Davidson: Have you noticed he's completely dropped off the radar recently...not a peep!
In reply to Bill Davidson: Who's Si'O?
In reply to PeteH:
Awesome effort, congratulations Sonnie! Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.
Awesome effort, congratulations Sonnie! Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.
In reply to Alasdair Fulton:
I think it was the John Watson video that started his demise. Closed his blog down & everything. If you knew he was a complete charlatan then he was actually very amusing & wrote some really good stuff! IMHO
I think it was the John Watson video that started his demise. Closed his blog down & everything. If you knew he was a complete charlatan then he was actually very amusing & wrote some really good stuff! IMHO
In reply to Bill Davidson:
That and the fact that one of his boulder problems was downgraded from V14 to V4.
> (In reply to Alasdair Fulton)
>
> I think it was the John Watson video that started his demise.
>
> I think it was the John Watson video that started his demise.
That and the fact that one of his boulder problems was downgraded from V14 to V4.
In reply to tony:
Aye, that was the one I was talking about, Atlantic Bridge or Crossing or summit like that. Even some of his training tips were actually quite good. I miss his craic but not the fact he devalued what other climbers were doing.
Aye, that was the one I was talking about, Atlantic Bridge or Crossing or summit like that. Even some of his training tips were actually quite good. I miss his craic but not the fact he devalued what other climbers were doing.
In reply to Bill Davidson:
I agree. Once everyone knew that he was completely full of s**t then he wasn't really doing any harm with his fantasies of E10s and 8C problems. What were his training tips? Drink whiskey, smoke tabs and hang around the crag telling people what you've done rather than actually climbing anything?
I agree. Once everyone knew that he was completely full of s**t then he wasn't really doing any harm with his fantasies of E10s and 8C problems. What were his training tips? Drink whiskey, smoke tabs and hang around the crag telling people what you've done rather than actually climbing anything?
In reply to JLS:
You missed Stork, Paul Thingymabob... Thorburn is it?
> >"Cory succeeds on it, it'll only be the 6th or 7th repeat I think."
>
> So who's done it?
>
> Cubby
> John Dunne
> Dave Macleod
> Alan Cassidy
> Sonnie Trotter
> Steve McClure?
>
> So who's done it?
>
> Cubby
> John Dunne
> Dave Macleod
> Alan Cassidy
> Sonnie Trotter
> Steve McClure?
You missed Stork, Paul Thingymabob... Thorburn is it?
In reply to Bill Davidson:
Last time I looked he was the most extreme sea kayaker in the world. Teaching the Eskimos how to do it etc. He didn't paddle to far did he?
I never really worked out whether it was all some massive elaborate art project or just mental illness over the web...
> I miss his craic but not the fact he devalued what other climbers were doing.
Last time I looked he was the most extreme sea kayaker in the world. Teaching the Eskimos how to do it etc. He didn't paddle to far did he?
I never really worked out whether it was all some massive elaborate art project or just mental illness over the web...
In reply to Red Rover:
Si O'Connor. He made up a load of fictitious routes and problems and claimed to be climbing the hardest stuff in the World in remote Scottish areas. His blog (and website) was an amazingly crafted work of complete bulls**t. For a while people believed him, as climbing is a trusting community, but eventually the truth came out and he disappeared off the face of the web.
Toby A - I believe it was the latter.
> (In reply to Bill Davidson) Who's Si'O?
Si O'Connor. He made up a load of fictitious routes and problems and claimed to be climbing the hardest stuff in the World in remote Scottish areas. His blog (and website) was an amazingly crafted work of complete bulls**t. For a while people believed him, as climbing is a trusting community, but eventually the truth came out and he disappeared off the face of the web.
Toby A - I believe it was the latter.
In reply to seagull: He was amusing though.
In reply to TobyA:
Yup, looks like summit I've read before!!!
'Secondly:
He is a highly motivated yet self-effacing Greenland style sea kayaker, with literally thousands of miles of water behind him. He has made many wild unassisted solo expeditions & is obsessed with perfect execution of the Inuit art. With equal passion, his dedication to improving the experience, skills & awareness of others whether out in the ocean environment or treading water in the still lochs, shines through. He can build clay ovens out of mud & performs a comedy Pusilluni Paarneq if harrassed enough. When not somewhere out in the North Atlantic, he can often be found tangled in his own washing line, back on the island. He is also an enormously experienced & accomplished climber.'
Yup, looks like summit I've read before!!!
'Secondly:
He is a highly motivated yet self-effacing Greenland style sea kayaker, with literally thousands of miles of water behind him. He has made many wild unassisted solo expeditions & is obsessed with perfect execution of the Inuit art. With equal passion, his dedication to improving the experience, skills & awareness of others whether out in the ocean environment or treading water in the still lochs, shines through. He can build clay ovens out of mud & performs a comedy Pusilluni Paarneq if harrassed enough. When not somewhere out in the North Atlantic, he can often be found tangled in his own washing line, back on the island. He is also an enormously experienced & accomplished climber.'
In reply to anonymous1:
who?
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> wont take mcclaw 14 days to do it though .
>
> wont take mcclaw 14 days to do it though .
who?
In reply to Tyler:
3rd ascent I think. Story went he thought he was the second, got to the top and saw JD scrawled at the top of the route.
> (In reply to JLS)
>
> Paul Laughlin (Frodo?)
>
> Paul Laughlin (Frodo?)
3rd ascent I think. Story went he thought he was the second, got to the top and saw JD scrawled at the top of the route.
In reply to catt: Is this someone different from Paul Thorburn? I googled - I did remember his name right.
In reply to PeteH:
"I fell into a place of power that I have not been to for a while" what a cracking line trhat is.sounds to me like he thought it was as very very hard.
jas
"I fell into a place of power that I have not been to for a while" what a cracking line trhat is.sounds to me like he thought it was as very very hard.
jas
In reply to PeteH:
Well done to Sonny!!!
Well done to Sonny!!!
In reply to andi turner:
i'm not sure the "all-rounder" part includes his experience/ability on overhanging cracks.
nonetheless it will be interesting to hear of any news should he happen to "give it a go".
> What Dave 'The All-Rounder'?
i'm not sure the "all-rounder" part includes his experience/ability on overhanging cracks.
nonetheless it will be interesting to hear of any news should he happen to "give it a go".
In reply to supafly: Yeah I concur, it would be an interesting analogy.
In reply to JLS:
Important question!
Why didn't Sonnie put his 'Sending Outfit' on weeks ago and get Rhapsody done quicker...?
The Path
http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/Sonnie-Trotter-ThePath07.jpg
Rhapsody
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=89524
Important question!
Why didn't Sonnie put his 'Sending Outfit' on weeks ago and get Rhapsody done quicker...?
The Path
http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/Sonnie-Trotter-ThePath07.jpg
Rhapsody
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=89524
In reply to PeteH:
Awesome send by the skinny white kid!, genius blog, hope he keeps on posting. It is also a pretty impressive time scale for the ascent - considering temps, this hombre really kicks ass.
Awesome send by the skinny white kid!, genius blog, hope he keeps on posting. It is also a pretty impressive time scale for the ascent - considering temps, this hombre really kicks ass.
In reply to JLS: I'm sure the backwards cap was in evidence during his send of Cobra Crack as well. It must surely be considered a point of aid, redneck aid maybe, but aid still.
In reply to JLS:
Interesting.. I was thinking of that earlier and it might actually point to a possibility that Sonnie knows when he will send his projects - and has the shirt freshly washed and ironed in preparation.
> Important question!
> Why didn't Sonnie put his 'Sending Outfit' on weeks ago and get Rhapsody done quicker...?
Interesting.. I was thinking of that earlier and it might actually point to a possibility that Sonnie knows when he will send his projects - and has the shirt freshly washed and ironed in preparation.
In reply to TobyA:
The cap was the most disappointing aspect of an otherwise inspirational send...
> (In reply to JLS) I'm sure the backwards cap was in evidence during his send of Cobra Crack as well. It must surely be considered a point of aid, redneck aid maybe, but aid still.
The cap was the most disappointing aspect of an otherwise inspirational send...
In reply to whispering nic:
The cap was great.
Additional coverage by Dougald at Climbing magazine
http://climbing.com/news/hotflashes/sonnie_trotter_repeats_rhapsody/
Paul at Rock and Ice
http://rockandice.com/inthemag.php?id=197&type=onlinenews
David at Climb magazine
http://www.climbmagazine.com/RhapsodyTrotter.aspx
8a.nu
http://8a.nu/
Planet Mountain
http://planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews.lasso?l=2&keyid=36178
and Alpinist leads with an E15 ascent
Less than a month after making the first free ascent of Magic Mushroom (VI 5.14, 2,900') on El Capitan with Justen Sjong (read the May 19 and May 20, 2008 NewsWires), Tommy Caldwell returned to lead every pitch free on June 8 in 20:02, with his wife Beth Rodden belaying (and power-jugging) in support.
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08x/newswire-magic-mushroom-free-day
The cap was great.
Additional coverage by Dougald at Climbing magazine
http://climbing.com/news/hotflashes/sonnie_trotter_repeats_rhapsody/
Paul at Rock and Ice
http://rockandice.com/inthemag.php?id=197&type=onlinenews
David at Climb magazine
http://www.climbmagazine.com/RhapsodyTrotter.aspx
8a.nu
http://8a.nu/
Planet Mountain
http://planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews.lasso?l=2&keyid=36178
and Alpinist leads with an E15 ascent
Less than a month after making the first free ascent of Magic Mushroom (VI 5.14, 2,900') on El Capitan with Justen Sjong (read the May 19 and May 20, 2008 NewsWires), Tommy Caldwell returned to lead every pitch free on June 8 in 20:02, with his wife Beth Rodden belaying (and power-jugging) in support.
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08x/newswire-magic-mushroom-free-day
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
All the same he was wearing a base ball cap back 2 front. I don't wish to distract from the acheivement at all, but a beanie might habve been more acceptable?
All the same he was wearing a base ball cap back 2 front. I don't wish to distract from the acheivement at all, but a beanie might habve been more acceptable?
In reply to whispering nic:
Nahhh...back to front baseball caps, like wife-beater tank tops, are where it is at.
Get upto speed will ya!
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> All the same he was wearing a base ball cap back 2 front. I don't wish to distract from the acheivement at all, but a beanie might habve been more acceptable?
> All the same he was wearing a base ball cap back 2 front. I don't wish to distract from the acheivement at all, but a beanie might habve been more acceptable?
Nahhh...back to front baseball caps, like wife-beater tank tops, are where it is at.
Get upto speed will ya!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Redneck wonderland is here! Never thought it would spread to the UK - I blame global warming?!!
Redneck wonderland is here! Never thought it would spread to the UK - I blame global warming?!!
In reply to James Jackson:
Dude, send it...
Dude, send it...
In reply to whispering nic:
Redneck culture was invented in the UK - except the rednecks are caused by beer not sunlight.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> Redneck wonderland is here! Never thought it would spread to the UK - I blame global warming?!!
> Redneck wonderland is here! Never thought it would spread to the UK - I blame global warming?!!
Redneck culture was invented in the UK - except the rednecks are caused by beer not sunlight.
In reply to James Jackson:
Old hat James, get over it dude.
Word.
> Am I the only one who gets annoyed by the use of the word 'send'?
Old hat James, get over it dude.
Word.
In reply to James Jackson:
I'm with you on this one...
> Am I the only one who gets annoyed by the use of the word 'send'?
I'm with you on this one...
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: typical its the english mag which appears the most 'scathing' of Rhapsody
well done Sonnie Trotter
well done Sonnie Trotter
In reply to Erik B:
"Scathing"? Perhaps the difference is not the nasty English are once again trying to do down the entire Scottish nation over one climb, but that rather as Simmonite writes, he was there right by the route so has seen it rather more closely than the American writers?
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com) typical its the english mag which appears the most 'scathing' of Rhapsody
"Scathing"? Perhaps the difference is not the nasty English are once again trying to do down the entire Scottish nation over one climb, but that rather as Simmonite writes, he was there right by the route so has seen it rather more closely than the American writers?
In reply to PeteH: A big up to Sonnie - well done.
In reply to Erik B: yes, well done Sonny Trotter. yes, we are a bunch of whinging Poms but how many of you Johny Foreigners even understand our grading system? (How many of us Brits do for that matter?)
>
> has his cloud level been upgraded? Only time will tell.
> has his cloud level been upgraded? Only time will tell.
In reply to TobyA:
Simmonite may have seen the route - so have I, but so what? - but Sonnie has had rather closer aquaintance with it, and I'd value Sonnie's comments rather more highly than anyone else's, apart from Dave MacLeod.
Simmonite may have seen the route - so have I, but so what? - but Sonnie has had rather closer aquaintance with it, and I'd value Sonnie's comments rather more highly than anyone else's, apart from Dave MacLeod.
In reply to tony:
I'm seeing both of them at the Rock Mountain Film festival, in Squamish in July, and I am so looking forward to it
I'm seeing both of them at the Rock Mountain Film festival, in Squamish in July, and I am so looking forward to it
In reply to tony: Of course, and it was Sonnie's excellent blog that put the cat among the pigeons originally with the "eliminate" reference. Hasn't Dave always said it's a two star route? I think everyone else was just so impressed with Dave's (and now Sonnie's) tenacity, bravery and skill that nobody really cared - it had to be an amazing route just because of the audacity of doing it. I'm sure there are some 100 mtr world record holders who wish they broke the record at the Olympic finals rather than some minor meeting, but no one else cares - they're just amazed by the feat.
I though Erik was bringing up a personal bugbear - that's all.
I though Erik was bringing up a personal bugbear - that's all.
In reply to TobyA: Im sure these fuds de anglais would take great joy in announcing that Rhapsody is in fact an E9. I dont know about anyone else but I have detected a growing level of negativity towards Rhapsody from the land of the grit eliminates, I suspect it is because this route, which has inspired one of north america's finest, wasnt climbed by one of the sheffield starlets and was in fact climbed by a lad from Bearsden on an intimidating scottish piece of rock that makes a mockery of the highball grit edges
just my opinion of course... think I'll stick to reading the quality international mags and UKC of course Mick.
just my opinion of course... think I'll stick to reading the quality international mags and UKC of course Mick.
In reply to Erik B: Not sure why you need to make and English/Scottish ("fuds de anglais") thing out it, Sheffield/grit arguably perhaps, but thousands of climbers from all over the UK see Dave as total hero for his amazing achievements in all parts of climbing short of big mountains and his modest and friendly style.
climbed by a lad from Bearsden on an intimidating scottish piece of rock that makes a mockery of the highball grit edges
>
Not that I really care but could you please explain how this route makes a mockery of the "highball grit edges"In reply to Erik B: "Im sure these fuds de anglais would take great joy in announcing that Rhapsody is in fact an E9. I dont know about anyone else but I have detected a growing level of negativity towards Rhapsody from the land of the grit eliminates"
Well read through this thread and point out a single negative comment on Sonny's achievement from an Englishman (or indeed a Scotsman). The only negativity that I detect is the chip on your shoulder with regard to the English.
Well read through this thread and point out a single negative comment on Sonny's achievement from an Englishman (or indeed a Scotsman). The only negativity that I detect is the chip on your shoulder with regard to the English.
In reply to Erik B:
Where do you get this strange attitude from? How many people from Sheffield have you spoken to in order to make the decision that there is a "growing level of negativity" from them towards this route? Or perhaps you have based your opinion on hearsay and non-quotes that you've read on the internet instead? I'd be interested to know.
Where do you get this strange attitude from? How many people from Sheffield have you spoken to in order to make the decision that there is a "growing level of negativity" from them towards this route? Or perhaps you have based your opinion on hearsay and non-quotes that you've read on the internet instead? I'd be interested to know.
In reply to PeteH:
This is the ideal outcome for all concerned isn’t it?
It’s good for Sonnie – he gets the girl and everyone says what a splendid fellow he is.
It’s good for Dave – it took a world-class climber a serious amount of effort to repeat his route. He also gets an invitation to a palace in the hills over Squamish.
It’s good for Mick and UKC – Sonnie is clearly a master of media manipulation, deliberately takes maximum time over the repeat ensuring blanket publicity over several weeks, and stokes the fires of controversy with ‘Rhapsody – it’s an eliminate’. Next time, get the web-cam set-up, eh?
It’s good for Steve Mac – We know he was just toying with the route but had the decency to let Sonnie take the honours.
It’s good for Brits – International climbing person from credible climbing country takes a serious interest in UK trad. and doesn’t piss up our routes like a Belgian.
It’s good for Scots – Rhapsody still hasn’t had an English ascent.
It’s good for Dumbarton – has a decaying post-industrial wasteland ever looked so appealing? http://www.sonnietrotter.com/blogimg/sunset.jpg
This is the ideal outcome for all concerned isn’t it?
It’s good for Sonnie – he gets the girl and everyone says what a splendid fellow he is.
It’s good for Dave – it took a world-class climber a serious amount of effort to repeat his route. He also gets an invitation to a palace in the hills over Squamish.
It’s good for Mick and UKC – Sonnie is clearly a master of media manipulation, deliberately takes maximum time over the repeat ensuring blanket publicity over several weeks, and stokes the fires of controversy with ‘Rhapsody – it’s an eliminate’. Next time, get the web-cam set-up, eh?
It’s good for Steve Mac – We know he was just toying with the route but had the decency to let Sonnie take the honours.
It’s good for Brits – International climbing person from credible climbing country takes a serious interest in UK trad. and doesn’t piss up our routes like a Belgian.
It’s good for Scots – Rhapsody still hasn’t had an English ascent.
It’s good for Dumbarton – has a decaying post-industrial wasteland ever looked so appealing? http://www.sonnietrotter.com/blogimg/sunset.jpg
In reply to Erik B:
I doubt it, I'm pretty sure most people don't see it is a Scotch v English thing in the way you do.
> Im sure these fuds de anglais would take great joy in announcing that Rhapsody is in fact an E9
I doubt it, I'm pretty sure most people don't see it is a Scotch v English thing in the way you do.
In reply to duncan:
Is it that good? I'm booking a ticket on your recommendation!
The rest - the proverbial LOL.
> It’s good for Dave – it took a world-class climber a serious amount of effort to repeat his route. He also gets an invitation to a palace in the hills over Squamish.
Is it that good? I'm booking a ticket on your recommendation!
The rest - the proverbial LOL.
In reply to Erik B:
Perhaps that's true for the Sheffield/ Yorkshire mafia but not all englishmen are from those grimey post-industrial towns and thus may have a more objective view of The Fabled Gritstone. FWIW, my main observation from this focus on Dumby of the last few weeks is that the original Requiem is an amazing line and one of the most compelling high-grade trad routes in the UK. It surprising to me that it hasn't had more ascents. Talking of which, is there any more gear on Requiem above the level where Rhapsody leads left or does it have a similar if easier runout to the top?
> (In reply to TobyA) Im sure these fuds de anglais would take great joy in announcing that Rhapsody is in fact an E9. I dont know about anyone else but I have detected a growing level of negativity towards Rhapsody from the land of the grit eliminates, I suspect it is because this route, which has inspired one of north america's finest, wasnt climbed by one of the sheffield starlets and was in fact climbed by a lad from Bearsden on an intimidating scottish piece of rock that makes a mockery of the highball grit edges
Perhaps that's true for the Sheffield/ Yorkshire mafia but not all englishmen are from those grimey post-industrial towns and thus may have a more objective view of The Fabled Gritstone. FWIW, my main observation from this focus on Dumby of the last few weeks is that the original Requiem is an amazing line and one of the most compelling high-grade trad routes in the UK. It surprising to me that it hasn't had more ascents. Talking of which, is there any more gear on Requiem above the level where Rhapsody leads left or does it have a similar if easier runout to the top?
In reply to Tyler:
Even if it wasn't already, you might just have made it so. One sure fire way to wind up the Scots is to refer to them as Scotch...
>
> I doubt it, I'm pretty sure most people don't see it is a Scotch v English thing in the way you do.
> I doubt it, I'm pretty sure most people don't see it is a Scotch v English thing in the way you do.
Even if it wasn't already, you might just have made it so. One sure fire way to wind up the Scots is to refer to them as Scotch...
In reply to button:
Nah. Doesn't wind anyone one up. They just think you're a plampf.
Nah. Doesn't wind anyone one up. They just think you're a plampf.
In reply to tobyfk:
Who are these people who only think that climbing on grit is impressive? I've lived in Sheffield for 17 years and know hundreds of climbers, from novice punters to many of the best in the country. I've never met one person who has this attitude. It's either a myth or I've somehow managed to not bump into any of them?
>
>
> Perhaps that's true for the Sheffield/ Yorkshire mafia but not all englishmen are from those grimey post-industrial towns and thus may have a more objective view of The Fabled Gritstone.
>
> Perhaps that's true for the Sheffield/ Yorkshire mafia but not all englishmen are from those grimey post-industrial towns and thus may have a more objective view of The Fabled Gritstone.
Who are these people who only think that climbing on grit is impressive? I've lived in Sheffield for 17 years and know hundreds of climbers, from novice punters to many of the best in the country. I've never met one person who has this attitude. It's either a myth or I've somehow managed to not bump into any of them?
In reply to button:
> (In reply to Tyler)
> [...]
>
>
> Even if it wasn't already, you might just have made it so. One sure fire way to wind up the Scots is to refer to them as Scotch... In his defence, he thought the thread was about whisky, "Trotter bags second bottle of Rhapsody 12 year old malt." OK I am getting my coat.
> [...]
>
>
> Even if it wasn't already, you might just have made it so. One sure fire way to wind up the Scots is to refer to them as Scotch... In his defence, he thought the thread was about whisky, "Trotter bags second bottle of Rhapsody 12 year old malt." OK I am getting my coat.
In reply to seagull:
To be precise, you're narrowing the category beyond what others have been discussing.
ie is the topic:
1. Sheffield-dwellers who think grit is impressive relative to Dumby
2. Sheffield-dwellers who think grit is impressive
3. Sheffield-dwellers who think only grit is impressive
I'd suggest that the size of groups 1 and 2 may be larger than 3.
Anyway, whatever, I am a Canadian.
> Who are these people who only think that climbing on grit is impressive?
To be precise, you're narrowing the category beyond what others have been discussing.
ie is the topic:
1. Sheffield-dwellers who think grit is impressive relative to Dumby
2. Sheffield-dwellers who think grit is impressive
3. Sheffield-dwellers who think only grit is impressive
I'd suggest that the size of groups 1 and 2 may be larger than 3.
Anyway, whatever, I am a Canadian.
In reply to tobyfk:
ergo you can climb 5.14d?
> (In reply to seagull)
>
> I'd suggest that the size of groups 1 and 2 may be larger than 3.
>
> Anyway, whatever, I am a Canadian.
>
> I'd suggest that the size of groups 1 and 2 may be larger than 3.
>
> Anyway, whatever, I am a Canadian.
ergo you can climb 5.14d?
In reply to tobyfk:
That is extremely pedantic. Of course the size of groups 1 and 2 will be greater but so what?!
Seriously. What I meant (as I think you know) is that I have never met anyone who would consider gritstone to be so superior to other rock types that the achievements of people on those other rock types are in any way devalued.
It's a common theme on these boards. The "Sheffield mafia" who see anything other than grit as lesser.
It's a load of utter crap in my experience.
That is extremely pedantic. Of course the size of groups 1 and 2 will be greater but so what?!
Seriously. What I meant (as I think you know) is that I have never met anyone who would consider gritstone to be so superior to other rock types that the achievements of people on those other rock types are in any way devalued.
It's a common theme on these boards. The "Sheffield mafia" who see anything other than grit as lesser.
It's a load of utter crap in my experience.
In reply to tobyfk: I exagerate the english bit, anyone who is aware of the politics and machinations of the UK scene for the last few decades knows what Im on about
ask cubby about his Requiem ascent, its only now its getting the worldwide recognition it deserves, thanks to messers Trotter and Richards
ask cubby about his Requiem ascent, its only now its getting the worldwide recognition it deserves, thanks to messers Trotter and Richards
In reply to Erik B:
Cubby has never been one for self promotion. He just got on with climbing bloody hard. Self promotion gets recognition in this game, unfortunately.
Cubby has never been one for self promotion. He just got on with climbing bloody hard. Self promotion gets recognition in this game, unfortunately.
In reply to Erik B:
Unfortunately not many people know or understand that.
> (In reply to tobyfk) I exagerate the english bit, anyone who is aware of the politics and machinations of the UK scene for the last few decades knows what Im on about
Unfortunately not many people know or understand that.
In reply to :
How did grit even get into this conversation.
Great job Sonnie, brillaint to see someone go so out there way to get on these routes.
How did grit even get into this conversation.
Great job Sonnie, brillaint to see someone go so out there way to get on these routes.
In reply to Erik B: I know what you means about some of the mags - many years ago I wrote a very sarcy letter to OTE telling them how to find Scotland on a map, and to their credit they did publish it. But at the time Climber was published in East Kilbride and did balance it a bit. I've stopped reading Climber now so can't say but Climb has pretty fair coverage of the whole country, although filled with typos and spelling mistokes... Because Dave Macleod's climbs have been so central to British climbing over the last decade, he has single handedly dragged much more attention northwards.
In reply to tobyfk:
Most Sheffield dwellers dont have a view as most won't have been to Dumbarton.
It also depends what you find impressive as well - an uban crag or the 5 miles of moorland gritsone of Stanage ? - forget the heighth look at the breadth.
If you take the trouble to drive that far you would carry on to Glencoe.
Anyway, whatever, I am a Devonian..0o-Ar
Most Sheffield dwellers dont have a view as most won't have been to Dumbarton.
It also depends what you find impressive as well - an uban crag or the 5 miles of moorland gritsone of Stanage ? - forget the heighth look at the breadth.
If you take the trouble to drive that far you would carry on to Glencoe.
Anyway, whatever, I am a Devonian..0o-Ar
In reply to Simon Lee:
And when has the latter ever precluded the former?!
I'm sure that's what you try telling all the girls.
You could break your journey and enjoy some of the excellent climbing Dumby offers. I would recommend Dumbarton Chimney or Monsoon Gulley as suitable introductions to the Rock.
> Most Sheffield dwellers dont have a view as most won't have been to Dumbarton.
And when has the latter ever precluded the former?!
> - forget the heighth look at the breadth.
I'm sure that's what you try telling all the girls.
> If you take the trouble to drive that far you would carry on to Glencoe.
You could break your journey and enjoy some of the excellent climbing Dumby offers. I would recommend Dumbarton Chimney or Monsoon Gulley as suitable introductions to the Rock.
In reply to TobyA: Dumbarton Chimney or Monsoon Gulley
Well the view that it is a graffiti emblazened, meteorologically challenged, rubbish strewn, midge ridden quarry in the middle of a council estate is I suppose the view that springs to mind. Thank you for the route recommendations, I am sure the climbing is as inspiring as the route names.
Best, Justin Stumpy
Well the view that it is a graffiti emblazened, meteorologically challenged, rubbish strewn, midge ridden quarry in the middle of a council estate is I suppose the view that springs to mind. Thank you for the route recommendations, I am sure the climbing is as inspiring as the route names.
Best, Justin Stumpy
In reply to tobyfk:
>"Talking of which, is there any more gear on Requiem above the level where Rhapsody leads left"
There is more gear. At least one bit (maybe two) which reduces any potential fall considerably.
>"Talking of which, is there any more gear on Requiem above the level where Rhapsody leads left"
There is more gear. At least one bit (maybe two) which reduces any potential fall considerably.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: anyone who cant see the climb mag articles agenda should read the article again, and I quote:
"This rather controversial route has recently seen plenty of comments on the climbing website forums regarding the contrived nature of the route and also whether it merits the grade of E11"
controversial? contrived? first Ive heard of it being controversial, Dave Macleod has been entirely honest with the style and route taken coupled with the number of stars he gave it, see his original scottish climbs FA description. As for contrived, the flange and traverse right into the crux follows the most obvious features on that headwall, creative use of words to promote the general air of negativity which continues throghout the article.
"And having been there with three of Britain’s most talented and experienced climbers for a couple of days it was easy to see why the route had lost some of its sparkle"
blatant deliberate stirring, none of these starlets climbed Rhapsody, end of story, the sparkle is still there, just ask Sonnie
"Prior to his ascent of Rhapsody Sonnie also made the first ascent of one of the more obvious variations to the route with a new direct finish to the original Requiem crack which he named Direquiem and graded it 5.14a R or about F8b+."
Trotters variation was a variation finish to the Requiem crack, as is Rhapsody, so Direqueiem is not a variation of Rhapsody, innacurate and very misleading with undertones of knocking Rhaposdy and adding to this eliminate myth and further perpetuating an imaginary controversy
"Maybe a sport grade of around F8c (based on comments from all four climbers at the time I was there) and an old school HXS would be more appropriate? If we go down the E grade route is it E10 or E11, after all F8c is roughly E9 and with a big, but relatively safe, fall potential then perhaps you could add a grade, so E10? Who knows and perhaps further ascents will sort it all out? This is a debate that will rage on...."
there is no debate at present, trotter will give an american grade, there has been no repeat by anyone who understands the E grade system, again, smacks of stirring and continues the theme of the article of knocking Rhapsody and ultimately of Macleod its creator.
"This rather controversial route has recently seen plenty of comments on the climbing website forums regarding the contrived nature of the route and also whether it merits the grade of E11"
controversial? contrived? first Ive heard of it being controversial, Dave Macleod has been entirely honest with the style and route taken coupled with the number of stars he gave it, see his original scottish climbs FA description. As for contrived, the flange and traverse right into the crux follows the most obvious features on that headwall, creative use of words to promote the general air of negativity which continues throghout the article.
"And having been there with three of Britain’s most talented and experienced climbers for a couple of days it was easy to see why the route had lost some of its sparkle"
blatant deliberate stirring, none of these starlets climbed Rhapsody, end of story, the sparkle is still there, just ask Sonnie
"Prior to his ascent of Rhapsody Sonnie also made the first ascent of one of the more obvious variations to the route with a new direct finish to the original Requiem crack which he named Direquiem and graded it 5.14a R or about F8b+."
Trotters variation was a variation finish to the Requiem crack, as is Rhapsody, so Direqueiem is not a variation of Rhapsody, innacurate and very misleading with undertones of knocking Rhaposdy and adding to this eliminate myth and further perpetuating an imaginary controversy
"Maybe a sport grade of around F8c (based on comments from all four climbers at the time I was there) and an old school HXS would be more appropriate? If we go down the E grade route is it E10 or E11, after all F8c is roughly E9 and with a big, but relatively safe, fall potential then perhaps you could add a grade, so E10? Who knows and perhaps further ascents will sort it all out? This is a debate that will rage on...."
there is no debate at present, trotter will give an american grade, there has been no repeat by anyone who understands the E grade system, again, smacks of stirring and continues the theme of the article of knocking Rhapsody and ultimately of Macleod its creator.
In reply to Erik B:
I agree that the statements in that article are intentionally inflamatory at best and at worst, plain wrong. However, they are the words of one journalist and you have taken them as being indicative of the general views of climbers in England, particularly in Sheffield.
I can tell you that this is not the case.
P.S. Describing JD as a "starlet" raised a smile.
I agree that the statements in that article are intentionally inflamatory at best and at worst, plain wrong. However, they are the words of one journalist and you have taken them as being indicative of the general views of climbers in England, particularly in Sheffield.
I can tell you that this is not the case.
P.S. Describing JD as a "starlet" raised a smile.
In reply to Erik B:
I had problems with the final paragraph of the Simmonite report too. If you take Partheon Shot as a point of reference (as one of the more regularly repeated E9s), it has (to the best of my knowledge) 8a+ climbing above a stack of wires that hold an exciting but so-far safe fall.
Rhapsody is essentially similar in nature, but is longer, more sustained and 8c to climb i.e. 3 French grades harder than Partheon Shot. It doesn't seem that much of a stretch therefore to imagine that it might be a couple of E grades harder in the UK grading system.
Like you say, Erik, the Climb article just smacks of pointless stirring, particularly when Rhapsody has not yet been repeated by anyone in a position to comment meaningfully on the original grade.
I had problems with the final paragraph of the Simmonite report too. If you take Partheon Shot as a point of reference (as one of the more regularly repeated E9s), it has (to the best of my knowledge) 8a+ climbing above a stack of wires that hold an exciting but so-far safe fall.
Rhapsody is essentially similar in nature, but is longer, more sustained and 8c to climb i.e. 3 French grades harder than Partheon Shot. It doesn't seem that much of a stretch therefore to imagine that it might be a couple of E grades harder in the UK grading system.
Like you say, Erik, the Climb article just smacks of pointless stirring, particularly when Rhapsody has not yet been repeated by anyone in a position to comment meaningfully on the original grade.
In reply to Erik B: I always thought it was considered controversial from the start? If you say something is the hardest of its kind people are always going to ask questions. Dunne got a lot of stick for Parthian Shot.
In reply to Simon Lee:
Is or has Dumby ever been a quarry?
Or indeed is it in the middle of or even directly adjacent to a council estate?
> (In reply to TobyA) Dumbarton Chimney or Monsoon Gulley
>
> Well the view that it is a graffiti emblazened, meteorologically challenged, rubbish strewn, midge ridden quarry in the middle of a council estate is I suppose the view that springs to mind.
>
> Well the view that it is a graffiti emblazened, meteorologically challenged, rubbish strewn, midge ridden quarry in the middle of a council estate is I suppose the view that springs to mind.
Is or has Dumby ever been a quarry?
Or indeed is it in the middle of or even directly adjacent to a council estate?
In reply to Ben C:
That was nowt to do with the grade though.
The "F8c is E9" comment is indeed total bollocks.
> Dunne got a lot of stick for Parthian Shot.
That was nowt to do with the grade though.
The "F8c is E9" comment is indeed total bollocks.
In reply to All: I like Dave M's account saying he's climbed confirmed E10's and Rhapsody was harder ergo E11 and he's a nice bloke to boot.
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
Dave MacLeod has always been very open and honest about his routes, Rhapsody in particular.
Dave told UKClimbing.com about his ascent of Rhapsody,
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=198
“I am well psyched and very relieved. I've hardly done anything else except try this route for nearly 2 years.
Rhapsody is the true finish to Requiem at Dumbarton Rock. It follows the crack of Requiem before continuing up the seam on the headwall all the way to the top. There is no more protection after the crack and this section is about French 8c-ish climbing. I fell from the last few moves 8 times last autumn before pulling off a crucial hold and having to start from scratch with a new crux sequence.
This year, with stronger fingers I still took one bad fall from the last move, spraining my ankles, cutting up my feet and generally making a mess of myself. The swing in was really bad, I was worried that if I could sprain my ankles going feet first, what would happen if I flipped and went head first, even with a helmet on? I nearly tested it once in October when the rope wrapped around my leg as I fell, crushing my calf. I just managed to pull my head out of the way and messed up my back instead. The other major thing on my mind was that the top RP snapped on one fall and I glanced the belay ledge as I went passed (70 footer). If it had snapped a split second later there is potential to die on the belay ledge? Well, it doesn't matter now I did it on Sunday.
Because of the very high technical difficulty and the danger, I thought a tentative E11 7a was warranted."
Rhapsody E11 7a (35m) 2 stars 09-04-2006
An exceptionally arduous experience in every way. This climb takes the true line of the Requiem crack, following it to the top of the wall. Start up Persistence of Vision to gain the ledge. Climb the main Requiem crack to where it fades and Requiem goes right. Step left (good shake out). Launch directly up the wall, climbing a thin flange to gain better edges in a thin horizontal (avoiding escape left). Traverse desperately right along the horizontal to regain the crack, get established in this (crux) and continue up the crack without respite to the top. F8c/8c+ climbing with the prospect of falling the length of the pitch from the final moves. FA headpointed placing gear on lead. Notes on the grade: E11 7a.
Obviously this is a remarkable grade. It arises mainly from the physical and technical difficulty of the climb. It's the hardest link I've ever done, so harder than the F8cs and Font 8bs. 8c+? maybe, I haven't done one so I don't know. So we'll say 8c. But it's also very technical climbing, a very devious sequence. The other aspect is the danger; a 60/70 foot fall from the top moves, sometimes glancing off the belay ledge. The swing in is extremely violent, sprained ankles, badly cut and bruised feet, legs and back and a crushed calf muscle were experienced. If you flipped and hit head first? I think the new grade might be justified as this route will only go if you are a high standard sport climber as well as bold. That sets it apart from previous routes. It's definitely 2 E grades harder than my E9s and 3 E's harder than Breathless. Grading hard routes is really just speculating about something where you have very little to go on. If not E11 then E10, repeaters will find out...
Dave MacLeod has always been very open and honest about his routes, Rhapsody in particular.
Dave told UKClimbing.com about his ascent of Rhapsody,
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=198
“I am well psyched and very relieved. I've hardly done anything else except try this route for nearly 2 years.
Rhapsody is the true finish to Requiem at Dumbarton Rock. It follows the crack of Requiem before continuing up the seam on the headwall all the way to the top. There is no more protection after the crack and this section is about French 8c-ish climbing. I fell from the last few moves 8 times last autumn before pulling off a crucial hold and having to start from scratch with a new crux sequence.
This year, with stronger fingers I still took one bad fall from the last move, spraining my ankles, cutting up my feet and generally making a mess of myself. The swing in was really bad, I was worried that if I could sprain my ankles going feet first, what would happen if I flipped and went head first, even with a helmet on? I nearly tested it once in October when the rope wrapped around my leg as I fell, crushing my calf. I just managed to pull my head out of the way and messed up my back instead. The other major thing on my mind was that the top RP snapped on one fall and I glanced the belay ledge as I went passed (70 footer). If it had snapped a split second later there is potential to die on the belay ledge? Well, it doesn't matter now I did it on Sunday.
Because of the very high technical difficulty and the danger, I thought a tentative E11 7a was warranted."
Rhapsody E11 7a (35m) 2 stars 09-04-2006
An exceptionally arduous experience in every way. This climb takes the true line of the Requiem crack, following it to the top of the wall. Start up Persistence of Vision to gain the ledge. Climb the main Requiem crack to where it fades and Requiem goes right. Step left (good shake out). Launch directly up the wall, climbing a thin flange to gain better edges in a thin horizontal (avoiding escape left). Traverse desperately right along the horizontal to regain the crack, get established in this (crux) and continue up the crack without respite to the top. F8c/8c+ climbing with the prospect of falling the length of the pitch from the final moves. FA headpointed placing gear on lead. Notes on the grade: E11 7a.
Obviously this is a remarkable grade. It arises mainly from the physical and technical difficulty of the climb. It's the hardest link I've ever done, so harder than the F8cs and Font 8bs. 8c+? maybe, I haven't done one so I don't know. So we'll say 8c. But it's also very technical climbing, a very devious sequence. The other aspect is the danger; a 60/70 foot fall from the top moves, sometimes glancing off the belay ledge. The swing in is extremely violent, sprained ankles, badly cut and bruised feet, legs and back and a crushed calf muscle were experienced. If you flipped and hit head first? I think the new grade might be justified as this route will only go if you are a high standard sport climber as well as bold. That sets it apart from previous routes. It's definitely 2 E grades harder than my E9s and 3 E's harder than Breathless. Grading hard routes is really just speculating about something where you have very little to go on. If not E11 then E10, repeaters will find out...
In reply to Fraser: I was thinking the same myself, but couldn't be arsed bringing it up......probably a subtle bit of trolling, or just plain ingorance!
In reply to Erik B: You have given a few quotes which describe the route as controversial and as having lost some of its sparkle. Any one of them could have easily been made by a Scotsman as an Englishman. There is no foundation whatsoever in your anti English sniping.
In reply to Simon Lee:
Speaking of views, the view from the top of Dumbarton Rock, looking west down the Clyde at sunset is rather delightful. Sonnie was also quite impressed at being able to see the start of the Highlands - Ben Lomond - from the top of the Requiem crack.
PS It's most certainly not a quarry, nor is it in the middle of a council estate.
> (In reply to TobyA) Dumbarton Chimney or Monsoon Gulley
>
> Well the view that it is a graffiti emblazened, meteorologically challenged, rubbish strewn, midge ridden quarry in the middle of a council estate is I suppose the view that springs to mind.
>
> Well the view that it is a graffiti emblazened, meteorologically challenged, rubbish strewn, midge ridden quarry in the middle of a council estate is I suppose the view that springs to mind.
Speaking of views, the view from the top of Dumbarton Rock, looking west down the Clyde at sunset is rather delightful. Sonnie was also quite impressed at being able to see the start of the Highlands - Ben Lomond - from the top of the Requiem crack.
PS It's most certainly not a quarry, nor is it in the middle of a council estate.
In reply to duncan:
Well said I say!
Sod all this animosity and let's just try to get on.
And Dumbarton rock is definitely not a quarry... Ya b*stard.
Pete.
Well said I say!
Sod all this animosity and let's just try to get on.
And Dumbarton rock is definitely not a quarry... Ya b*stard.
Pete.
In reply to tony:
Did he try the alternative router down from the top?
Over the castle walls and then out over the castle gate.
Did he try the alternative router down from the top?
Over the castle walls and then out over the castle gate.
In reply to Erik B:
I have to agree with you in general, but I don't know about 'eliminate myth' - wasn't Dave M quoted as saying it was a 'nice wee eliminate for local climbers', or some such?
jcm
I have to agree with you in general, but I don't know about 'eliminate myth' - wasn't Dave M quoted as saying it was a 'nice wee eliminate for local climbers', or some such?
jcm
Dave Simmonite's piece at Climb magazines website has now been slightly revised:
http://www.climbmagazine.com/RhapsodyTrotter.aspx
Some points from Dave that he phoned through: (he's away from his computer)
"1. The route is controversial because it was given the new grade of E11 and because it is not a pure line - it is escapable......but very hard climbing. People will discuss this.
2. Dave is having a go at the UK grading system, not the route or Dave MacLeod, he believes that perhaps the E system shouldn't be applied to this route. Hence his comments on the Climb website.
3. Maybe time to reassess how we grade top end routes in the UK."
END TRANSMISSION.
http://www.climbmagazine.com/RhapsodyTrotter.aspx
Some points from Dave that he phoned through: (he's away from his computer)
"1. The route is controversial because it was given the new grade of E11 and because it is not a pure line - it is escapable......but very hard climbing. People will discuss this.
2. Dave is having a go at the UK grading system, not the route or Dave MacLeod, he believes that perhaps the E system shouldn't be applied to this route. Hence his comments on the Climb website.
3. Maybe time to reassess how we grade top end routes in the UK."
END TRANSMISSION.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Not quite:
"Talking of which, I read that folk have been disappointed that Rhapsody has an escape line at a couple of points. I was disappointed with this also when I was working on it, but hey sometimes you can’t have everything. It’s got good moves, good rock, good difficulty and good situation even if the line is not 100% perfect. What it really is, is a wee gem for locals with nice moves. It’s not important anyway – if it appeals to the climber, they will climb it or otherwise…"
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/DaveMacleod/~3/305727016/flying-visits-all-r...
"Talking of which, I read that folk have been disappointed that Rhapsody has an escape line at a couple of points. I was disappointed with this also when I was working on it, but hey sometimes you can’t have everything. It’s got good moves, good rock, good difficulty and good situation even if the line is not 100% perfect. What it really is, is a wee gem for locals with nice moves. It’s not important anyway – if it appeals to the climber, they will climb it or otherwise…"
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/DaveMacleod/~3/305727016/flying-visits-all-r...
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Evidently not quite, on looking at his blog. Sorry. But he's always said it was escapable - isn't that what 'eliminate' means.
Anyway, more to the point I see he can quote my favourite poet Housman. My respect for himm moves up yet another notch.
David Simmonite - hole, digging, stop.
jcm
Evidently not quite, on looking at his blog. Sorry. But he's always said it was escapable - isn't that what 'eliminate' means.
Anyway, more to the point I see he can quote my favourite poet Housman. My respect for himm moves up yet another notch.
David Simmonite - hole, digging, stop.
jcm
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: the route is escapeable at a measely grade of E8, isnt that what variations are all about? also once committed to the E11 climbing you cant escape.
it appears David is back tracking, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it was just a poorly thought out piece of writing
(of course I have my own opinions on whether that is indeed the case)
it appears David is back tracking, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it was just a poorly thought out piece of writing
(of course I have my own opinions on whether that is indeed the case)
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Revised or not the grading stuff's still complete nonsense. Why doesn't an E grade work for this route in particular? And just saying 8c = E9 so add an E point for the fall and you get E10. Sorry, that's not how it works.
I prefer the measured and considered reasoning behind the grade given to the route by the bloke who climbed it first (and who has climbed plenty of E9s and E10s) to the daft and incorrect conjecture in that article.
Revised or not the grading stuff's still complete nonsense. Why doesn't an E grade work for this route in particular? And just saying 8c = E9 so add an E point for the fall and you get E10. Sorry, that's not how it works.
I prefer the measured and considered reasoning behind the grade given to the route by the bloke who climbed it first (and who has climbed plenty of E9s and E10s) to the daft and incorrect conjecture in that article.
In reply to PeteH:
To those muttering about the grade...
I really don't see what the issue is. Dave has climbed E10's. These are recognised as being harder than the E9's.
Rhapsody was harder than the E10's so it gets E11. It really is as simple as that.
To those muttering about the grade...
I really don't see what the issue is. Dave has climbed E10's. These are recognised as being harder than the E9's.
Rhapsody was harder than the E10's so it gets E11. It really is as simple as that.
In reply to Erik B:
I thought it was a lousy piece of writing It should have celebrated a terrific ascent. I really do not care what Dave thinks of the route Sonny Trotters view as the second ascensionists is far more relevant and his blog says this about Rhapsody
"Rhapsdoy is a good route, actually no, it's a terrifc route, it climbs so f**king well, it's actually fun to fall off of. There is not a painful or scary move on it, it's a brilliant line. Compared to say Cobra Crack, as easthetic and direct as it may be - it's stings like a son of a bitch. I always dreaded going back up for another burn when I knew how much it was going to hurt. There is not a bad move on Rhapsody. It flows like fifty cent. It deserves three stars in my books".
I thought it was a lousy piece of writing It should have celebrated a terrific ascent. I really do not care what Dave thinks of the route Sonny Trotters view as the second ascensionists is far more relevant and his blog says this about Rhapsody
"Rhapsdoy is a good route, actually no, it's a terrifc route, it climbs so f**king well, it's actually fun to fall off of. There is not a painful or scary move on it, it's a brilliant line. Compared to say Cobra Crack, as easthetic and direct as it may be - it's stings like a son of a bitch. I always dreaded going back up for another burn when I knew how much it was going to hurt. There is not a bad move on Rhapsody. It flows like fifty cent. It deserves three stars in my books".
In reply to Erik B:
Why don`t you share them then ? Rather than the thinly veiled racist sheeite about fud de anglais ?
> (of course I have my own opinions on whether that is indeed the case)
Why don`t you share them then ? Rather than the thinly veiled racist sheeite about fud de anglais ?
In reply to ClimberEd:
Brilliantly Put !!!
> I really don't see what the issue is. Dave has climbed E10's. These are recognised as being harder than the E9's.
>
> Rhapsody was harder than the E10's so it gets E11. It really is as simple as that.
>
> Rhapsody was harder than the E10's so it gets E11. It really is as simple as that.
Brilliantly Put !!!
In reply to kipster:
Wish I'd have said what kipster said.
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
>
> [...]
>
> Brilliantly Put !!!
>
> [...]
>
> Brilliantly Put !!!
Wish I'd have said what kipster said.
In reply to many-a-person: go climbing, get better, climb rhapsody, comment on the grade. That is what I intend to do and so should you.
In reply to lummox: get a grip, it was humour. im not racist afterall my dad is english
Congratulations Sonnie. What a great achievement and thanks for coming over and entertaining us. I had a great time following the blog and it is good for British and Scottish climbing and confirms that Rhapsody is where even the best need to dig very deep.
Regarding Dumbarton and the line of Rhapsody. I have visited Dumby only once but the Requiem crack and Rhapsody continuation line look as one of the hardest trad climbs in the world should look like. This line is the line that your eye choses to follow first. You just can't help standing there and wondering how the climbing on the blank, overhanging wall and the fall might be.
Finally, just don't forget to tick the box here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=79571
Regarding Dumbarton and the line of Rhapsody. I have visited Dumby only once but the Requiem crack and Rhapsody continuation line look as one of the hardest trad climbs in the world should look like. This line is the line that your eye choses to follow first. You just can't help standing there and wondering how the climbing on the blank, overhanging wall and the fall might be.
Finally, just don't forget to tick the box here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=79571
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
The thing is though Dave has been photographing his friends on headpoints for years, many of which fall into the category of "safe" with big falls. Obviously he's not going to bite the hand that feeds but it does seem a bit disingenuous to suddenly decide now that it "maybe time to reassess how we grade top end routes in the UK" and use Rhapsody as an example (a route he didn't photograph the first ascent of) rather than say the Groove at Cratcliffe.
> 2. Dave is having a go at the UK grading system, not the route or Dave MacLeod, he believes that perhaps the E system shouldn't be applied to this route. Hence his comments on the Climb website.
> 3. Maybe time to reassess how we grade top end routes in the UK."
The thing is though Dave has been photographing his friends on headpoints for years, many of which fall into the category of "safe" with big falls. Obviously he's not going to bite the hand that feeds but it does seem a bit disingenuous to suddenly decide now that it "maybe time to reassess how we grade top end routes in the UK" and use Rhapsody as an example (a route he didn't photograph the first ascent of) rather than say the Groove at Cratcliffe.
In reply to whoever:
An E grade for Rhapsody would seem more appropriate than anything else because the nature of the route/protection means an onsight attempt by a strong climber would be considerably less than suicidal. I can see young Franco having a go at the on-sight in ten years time (if not solo).
So Franco, don't go spoiling your onsight by watching videos of Rhapsody.
An E grade for Rhapsody would seem more appropriate than anything else because the nature of the route/protection means an onsight attempt by a strong climber would be considerably less than suicidal. I can see young Franco having a go at the on-sight in ten years time (if not solo).
So Franco, don't go spoiling your onsight by watching videos of Rhapsody.
I have removed the comment about grades on the end of the Rhapsody report on the Climb magazine website.
In hindsight the report should have only been about celebrating Sonnie's ascent and not about discussing the grading of hard routes.
There is a time and a place for this and this was not it.
So humble pie twice please and don't forget the cream.
http://www.climbmagazine.com/RhapsodyTrotter.aspx
Dave
In hindsight the report should have only been about celebrating Sonnie's ascent and not about discussing the grading of hard routes.
There is a time and a place for this and this was not it.
So humble pie twice please and don't forget the cream.
http://www.climbmagazine.com/RhapsodyTrotter.aspx
Dave
In reply to David Simmonite: I see you have edited the original piece significantly, does this mean you are admitting your article had a more sinister slant to it?
In reply to Erik B: Give it a rest Erik unless you want admit to deliberately stirring the pot with some vaguely racist, or at the very least offensive, language. And don't say you were just having laugh until you've been abused in Scotland by drunk idiots you don't know from Adam for the "crime" of being English (and I'm sure lots of Scots have had to listen to the same shit in reverse in England). Then petty prejudice might seem a bit more "sinister" as well.
In reply to David Simmonite:
Well done Dave its good for you to be open and admit an error on your part. You get lots of respect from me for that.
Best wishes
Well done Dave its good for you to be open and admit an error on your part. You get lots of respect from me for that.
Best wishes
In reply to Simon Lee:
Have you ever been to Dumby?
> (In reply to TobyA) Dumbarton Chimney or Monsoon Gulley
>
> Well the view that it is a graffiti emblazened, meteorologically challenged, rubbish strewn, midge ridden quarry in the middle of a council estate is I suppose the view that springs to mind.
>
> Well the view that it is a graffiti emblazened, meteorologically challenged, rubbish strewn, midge ridden quarry in the middle of a council estate is I suppose the view that springs to mind.
Have you ever been to Dumby?
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