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Quote from anorexic climber article "Chris Sharma's weight is 71 - 75 kg. This gives the 184 cm tall, and probably the best climber in the world..........."
Is he? He is certainly the most publicised in the world and he is pretty good but what makes him the best? Aren't there people out there bouldering harder, doing harder sport routes and harder trad?
Has he done Chilam Balam (9b+), Rhapsody (E11 7a) or Tonino 78 (Font 8c+)?
What about Dave Graham, Adam Ondra, Dave Mcleod, etc, etc....
I'm not disputing it just interested thats all.
Is he? He is certainly the most publicised in the world and he is pretty good but what makes him the best? Aren't there people out there bouldering harder, doing harder sport routes and harder trad?
Has he done Chilam Balam (9b+), Rhapsody (E11 7a) or Tonino 78 (Font 8c+)?
What about Dave Graham, Adam Ondra, Dave Mcleod, etc, etc....
I'm not disputing it just interested thats all.
In reply to Leek_lad: I reckon Ondra must be up there somewhere. The skinny yoof is blowing all competitors away at the moment.
In reply to Leek_lad: umm wel its completely debatable hoo the best climber is after all - what are the criteria for being the best?? best all round, best for being at the top for a long time, best at onsighting, best at redpointing, best at just one disciplne, best ethics, best in competition, having the most fun?? the criteria are endless!!
he is without a doubt one of the best and has been for ages! also why shoudl he chase these routes when he is obviously mroe psyched to do his own routes its a good question but i reckon without an answer reli he has won a few international comps anybody else reckon they can answer it!?!?
he is without a doubt one of the best and has been for ages! also why shoudl he chase these routes when he is obviously mroe psyched to do his own routes its a good question but i reckon without an answer reli he has won a few international comps anybody else reckon they can answer it!?!?
In reply to dunkymonkey17: He's got the nicest hair.
In reply to Leek_lad: i think people are forgeting steve mcclure....
In reply to Leek_lad:
I think it is likely impossible to have a single best climber in the world, unless the situation ever occurs in which one climber is clearly better than everyone else in every single field, which seems unlikely.
I think it is likely impossible to have a single best climber in the world, unless the situation ever occurs in which one climber is clearly better than everyone else in every single field, which seems unlikely.
In reply to dunkymonkey17:
That's a good point.
There's a very strong argument which simply says that if a climber doesn't do anyone else's confirmed routes, it's impossible to say how good they really are (think Si O'Connor), and moreover it's detrimental to the sport as a whole because it is so dependent on people climbing and confirming each others' routes.
> also why shoudl he chase these routes when he is obviously mroe psyched to do his own route
That's a good point.
There's a very strong argument which simply says that if a climber doesn't do anyone else's confirmed routes, it's impossible to say how good they really are (think Si O'Connor), and moreover it's detrimental to the sport as a whole because it is so dependent on people climbing and confirming each others' routes.
In reply to dunkymonkey17:
I suppose its a bit like someone asking who the best runner in the world is or who the best boxer in the world is.
I would have to answer for both that it depends on the discipline or weight category.
Most people would consider the best runner to be the fastest, i.e. 100m sprinter with most medals or the world record holder. In boxing most people would consider the heavyweight champion the best.
If we're talking strongest climber I suppose most people would consider this to be a boulderer.
If we're talking all rounder wouldn't Dave Mcleod be on top?
I suppose its a bit like someone asking who the best runner in the world is or who the best boxer in the world is.
I would have to answer for both that it depends on the discipline or weight category.
Most people would consider the best runner to be the fastest, i.e. 100m sprinter with most medals or the world record holder. In boxing most people would consider the heavyweight champion the best.
If we're talking strongest climber I suppose most people would consider this to be a boulderer.
If we're talking all rounder wouldn't Dave Mcleod be on top?
In reply to Leek_lad:
Further to that, who is the hardest (strongest) boulderer in the world. I was thinking Fred Nicole but I could be slightly out of touch.
Further to that, who is the hardest (strongest) boulderer in the world. I was thinking Fred Nicole but I could be slightly out of touch.
In reply to Alex Roddie: Why not have a 'climbing Iron Man'. - you have to climb a XI, ski down, climb Rhaps, run to a font 8c+ boulder, climb it and warm down on some sport route that is also rock 'ard?
In reply to Franco Cookson: -then do some abin.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
A friend of mine came up with the ultimate 8 challenge:
In 8 hours, Climb font 8a, sport 8a, scottish grade 8 and top it off with 8 cakes washed down with 8 pints.
After falling about laughing for a while it got me thinking..........it might just be feasible!
A friend of mine came up with the ultimate 8 challenge:
In 8 hours, Climb font 8a, sport 8a, scottish grade 8 and top it off with 8 cakes washed down with 8 pints.
After falling about laughing for a while it got me thinking..........it might just be feasible!
In reply to Leek_lad: Surely E8 as well?
In reply to Leek_lad:
Arguable whether anyone has done Chilam Balam (9b+), but Sharma reckons that he is getting close from what he said last time I saw him.
Arguable whether anyone has done Chilam Balam (9b+), but Sharma reckons that he is getting close from what he said last time I saw him.
In reply to tom.e: Ah yes, that too.
I think most climbers capable of such a feat would fall down on the cake and beer part though.
I think most climbers capable of such a feat would fall down on the cake and beer part though.
In reply to Leek_lad: I'm very capable of the last two. Unfortunately means no chance of the first three.
In reply to Leek_lad:
surley the best climber in the world needs to be good at proper mountains as well.
Presently, unless I'm much mistaken, Dave hasn't done anything on the alpine scene.
I reckon Franco's climbing iron man is nearly there as the ultimate test, but it needs a big hard alpine style ascent in there as well.
surley the best climber in the world needs to be good at proper mountains as well.
Presently, unless I'm much mistaken, Dave hasn't done anything on the alpine scene.
I reckon Franco's climbing iron man is nearly there as the ultimate test, but it needs a big hard alpine style ascent in there as well.
Who do you think would rank at the top these days on this scale? http://www.planetfear.com/article_detail.asp?a_id=165
In reply to Leek_lad:
i think Bert Zangeral (sp) must be up there.....his climbs tend to be proper bouldering rather than traverses and enduro fests.
i think Bert Zangeral (sp) must be up there.....his climbs tend to be proper bouldering rather than traverses and enduro fests.
In reply to davefount: iy, I was thinking of the Eiger Nord Wand- not very origional I know, but about the right level- not the hardest in the world, but pretty darn tricky. I think the 10 pints might be a good thing as well. You could probably give them a couple of weeks to do it.
So it would start off at Dumby- leg it up to the ben, a 'X' or summat ; down for Rhaps (or requiem (sp) -you don't want it ridiculously hard). Then a cycle to the alps- ticking off a font 8b and say an F8c- nothing too hard, on the way. Then Eiger Nord Wand in a few hours and back down for a fondue and ten pints. - sounds oright?
So it would start off at Dumby- leg it up to the ben, a 'X' or summat ; down for Rhaps (or requiem (sp) -you don't want it ridiculously hard). Then a cycle to the alps- ticking off a font 8b and say an F8c- nothing too hard, on the way. Then Eiger Nord Wand in a few hours and back down for a fondue and ten pints. - sounds oright?
In reply to Leek_lad:
Hi Leek_lad,
All I know is that by the time this debate is over, Chris Sharma will be several years older.
I don't think it actually matters. He's obviously in the very top performing group, and that'll do me.
Hi Leek_lad,
All I know is that by the time this debate is over, Chris Sharma will be several years older.
I don't think it actually matters. He's obviously in the very top performing group, and that'll do me.
In reply to Astral Highway: but the 'Igneous Man' would settle the matter.
In reply to Franco Cookson: * Patent Pending*
In reply to Leek_lad: I think he is as good as anyone as all round hard climber and boulderer (ok no trad.) Think Patxi Usobiaga is strongest climber of all.
In reply to Leek_lad:
Current top 3 sport is usobiaga, ondra, andrada.
Current top 3 boulderers are woods, schwaiger, robinson.
Going by 8a.nu points system! Which doesnt answer the question in the slightest! but there you go :P
Current top 3 sport is usobiaga, ondra, andrada.
Current top 3 boulderers are woods, schwaiger, robinson.
Going by 8a.nu points system! Which doesnt answer the question in the slightest! but there you go :P
In reply to sihills:
It is perhaps telling that extreme alpinists DONT have a website telling them who has the best "scorecard". Maybe they are the best climbers? Could Sharma get up and down the Rupal face alpine-style?
It is perhaps telling that extreme alpinists DONT have a website telling them who has the best "scorecard". Maybe they are the best climbers? Could Sharma get up and down the Rupal face alpine-style?
In reply to Jamie B.:
Chris did get benighted on the Incredible Hulk in the Sierra Nevada on one of his first alpine rock climbs.
Sharma is an excellent climber, but there again there are many climbing at his standard.
I do agree about 8a.nu, I understand why it is popular but it is symptom and a cause of the moral decay that's gnawing at the heart of the climbing nation.
> (In reply to sihills)
>
> It is perhaps telling that extreme alpinists DONT have a website telling them who has the best "scorecard". Maybe they are the best climbers? Could Sharma get up and down the Rupal face alpine-style?
>
> It is perhaps telling that extreme alpinists DONT have a website telling them who has the best "scorecard". Maybe they are the best climbers? Could Sharma get up and down the Rupal face alpine-style?
Chris did get benighted on the Incredible Hulk in the Sierra Nevada on one of his first alpine rock climbs.
Sharma is an excellent climber, but there again there are many climbing at his standard.
I do agree about 8a.nu, I understand why it is popular but it is symptom and a cause of the moral decay that's gnawing at the heart of the climbing nation.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
it is symptom and a cause of the moral decay that's gnawing at the heart of the climbing nation.
Huh?? Do explain, you lost me there.
it is symptom and a cause of the moral decay that's gnawing at the heart of the climbing nation.
Huh?? Do explain, you lost me there.
In reply to sihills: I dont think you want to hear it..
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Have you just conciously or unknowingly regurtitated (mostly) a lyric from a The The song?
> it is symptom and a cause of the moral decay that's gnawing at the heart of the climbing nation.
Have you just conciously or unknowingly regurtitated (mostly) a lyric from a The The song?
In reply to martin heywood:
8a.nu focus climbers on a narrow field of climbing achievement, sport and bouldering....great sub-cultures of our activity.
It doesn't attempt to give the big picture of climbing achievement.
It's great as a motivating tool, but it its sycophantic focus on climbing celebrity is nauseating and its self-importance is narcissistic in the extreme.
> (In reply to sihills) I dont think you want to hear it..
8a.nu focus climbers on a narrow field of climbing achievement, sport and bouldering....great sub-cultures of our activity.
It doesn't attempt to give the big picture of climbing achievement.
It's great as a motivating tool, but it its sycophantic focus on climbing celebrity is nauseating and its self-importance is narcissistic in the extreme.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: I interviewed Chris Sharma when he was over. Really nice person. He did say that, as regards to other climbers, there were plenty of good ones out there, but he sort of implied he could do what they were doing, not in a boastful way. However, he said Adam Ondra blew him away, that he was so much on the next level. he was just doing thiings in a way that no one else was doing. He was really inspired by him.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Ive got you under my skin where the rain cant get in...
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I salute your good taste; Soul Mining remains one of the freshest-sounding and most innovative albums of its era. * end of tangent *
I salute your good taste; Soul Mining remains one of the freshest-sounding and most innovative albums of its era. * end of tangent *
In reply to Leek_lad:
John Gaskins???? Fred Rouhling????
If Sharma wanted to (I'm sure he doesn't care though) really get noticed he should try Akira.
John Gaskins???? Fred Rouhling????
If Sharma wanted to (I'm sure he doesn't care though) really get noticed he should try Akira.
In reply to zorro:
Its about time someone noticed him...
> (In reply to Leek_lad)
>
> John Gaskins???? Fred Rouhling????
>
> If Sharma wanted to (I'm sure he doesn't care though) really get noticed he should try Akira.
>
> John Gaskins???? Fred Rouhling????
>
> If Sharma wanted to (I'm sure he doesn't care though) really get noticed he should try Akira.
Its about time someone noticed him...
In reply to martin heywood: Sharma's clearly the best....have you heard his power scream, you can't have a power scream like that and not be the best
In reply to Alasdair Fulton: Ah yes the power scream. Am thinking of starting a thread on that.Im surprised there is no way of scoring points for it on 8 f*cking a dot NU.
In reply to martin heywood: why is it so many on ukc aswell as ukc itself seem to have such animosity towards 8a. True they only cover bouldering and sport climbing, but they dont claim to cover everything and I really dont think they create any sort of superstar status' they praise and report on hard climbing and provide a logbook similar to that of ukc but amount points for grades.
In reply to sihills: Its not very "British". there is no humour (apart from unintentionally from some of the editorials), no recognition of where climbing has come from, It is kind of stupid "if we were to give half a point more for flash rather than pure onsight so and so would change place in top ten with so and so. Then you see all the lemmings have gone on holiday somewhere where theres an 8A thats really 7c plus and it appears on everyones wanky scorecard. Im starting to rant so Im off.Might put a thread up about it. Good night.
In reply to martin heywood:Err, perhaps I should tone down the above comments.I realize it is a useful forum to keep in touch with friends and news world wide, in the way that something like "Facebook" can be. I also understand that statistics appeal to the trainspotter in all of us,my main gripe I guess is that it is all taken so seriously.....
In reply to martin heywood: ofcourse they take it seriously, many of the people that use the site climb as a living! they need to take it seriously as recognision brings sponsors whichs brings money.
Disagree that there is no humour, there is loads, may not all be on purpose but they have me giggling quite often.
Disagree that there is no humour, there is loads, may not all be on purpose but they have me giggling quite often.
recognision brings sponsors whichs brings money.
>
This too could be part of my "problem" with this site,though really the above only applies to a tiny percentage at the very top of the "charts". 99 per cent of users have no illusions about making money from their climbing.
>
This too could be part of my "problem" with this site,though really the above only applies to a tiny percentage at the very top of the "charts". 99 per cent of users have no illusions about making money from their climbing.
In reply to Leek_lad: Does it really matter? Shouldn't you be more concerned about getting enjoyment out of it than saying - oh this person is the best in the World. I respect people who climb at the highest level - they inspire me, but don't say oh he must be the best in the World. There are people who are miles better than me, but then the line becomes blurred at the top end. Look for inspirations rather than comparing top end climbers.
And tell me how do you compare a sport climber/boulderer to someone who is leading hard trad routes onsight - Neil Dickson par example? Real inspiring...
And tell me how do you compare a sport climber/boulderer to someone who is leading hard trad routes onsight - Neil Dickson par example? Real inspiring...
In reply to datoon:
Sorry if I gave you the impression I was loosing sleep over this one!
Don't tell me what I should be concerned with, that's my business! I opened a discussion, It has been claimed that Sharma is the best in the world several times. My question was what quantifies the best in the world........go back to your knitting!
Sorry if I gave you the impression I was loosing sleep over this one!
Don't tell me what I should be concerned with, that's my business! I opened a discussion, It has been claimed that Sharma is the best in the world several times. My question was what quantifies the best in the world........go back to your knitting!
In reply to datoon:
Someone always has to spoil it dont they!? *TUT*
Back on subject. In my opinion the 'best' in any discipline has got to be an allrounder.
Take other sports and people see the allrounders as the greatest. Ian Botham, Daily Thompson, etc. All highly debatable of course which is wy its so hard to say who is the best. Its the classic school playground argument!
But in my opinion the greatest at the moment has to be either MacLeod or Ondra. Even tho Ondra hasnt done alot of climbing outside bouldering and sport, nowone can deny he's setting new standards way above the rest.
However Dave MacLeod in my opinion is the best allrounder, and therfore the bestist one
Someone always has to spoil it dont they!? *TUT*
Back on subject. In my opinion the 'best' in any discipline has got to be an allrounder.
Take other sports and people see the allrounders as the greatest. Ian Botham, Daily Thompson, etc. All highly debatable of course which is wy its so hard to say who is the best. Its the classic school playground argument!
But in my opinion the greatest at the moment has to be either MacLeod or Ondra. Even tho Ondra hasnt done alot of climbing outside bouldering and sport, nowone can deny he's setting new standards way above the rest.
However Dave MacLeod in my opinion is the best allrounder, and therfore the bestist one
In reply to Souljah: I'm not sure that alrounders are "best" in other sports - Phil Neville vs Pele for example - or a better example, Rooney (who can play anywhere on the pitch) or Ronaldo (who doesn't) - Ronaldo takes the plaudits.
For the pundit therefore, someone who specialises in the most entertaining or watchable discipline (goalscoring/dribbling in football, probably sport climbing and bouldering in climbing) will be seen as the best, hence the disproportionate attention lavished on Sharma, Graham, Ondra, Patxi et al.
Personally though I think whats his face who did N Face Teng Poche and the Eiger speed records is the daddy right now
For the pundit therefore, someone who specialises in the most entertaining or watchable discipline (goalscoring/dribbling in football, probably sport climbing and bouldering in climbing) will be seen as the best, hence the disproportionate attention lavished on Sharma, Graham, Ondra, Patxi et al.
Personally though I think whats his face who did N Face Teng Poche and the Eiger speed records is the daddy right now
In reply to dwtj: Ueli Steck
In reply to Souljah:
Don Bradman didn't bowl a lot did he?
> (In reply to datoon)
>> Take other sports and people see the allrounders as the greatest. Ian Botham [...]
Don Bradman didn't bowl a lot did he?
In reply to Leek_lad: I'll go back to my climbing rather than knitting.
Seems you spend a lot of time reading about the best climbers - maybe you should spend some more time climbing?
Seems you spend a lot of time reading about the best climbers - maybe you should spend some more time climbing?
In reply to dwtj:
At this point I spotted reading. you've obviuosly lost the plot.
> (In reply to Souljah) I'm not sure that alrounders are "best" in other sports - Phil Neville vs Pele for example......
At this point I spotted reading. you've obviuosly lost the plot.
In reply to galpinos:
yes indeed.
> (In reply to dwtj)
> [...]
>
> At this point I spotted reading. you've obviuosly lost the plot.
> [...]
>
> At this point I spotted reading. you've obviuosly lost the plot.
yes indeed.
In reply to martin heywood:
Ok, to put this back on track. I think we could argue that Dave MCleod is the best allrounder so forget allrounders. What specialism of climbing is Chris Sharma the best at?
Ok, to put this back on track. I think we could argue that Dave MCleod is the best allrounder so forget allrounders. What specialism of climbing is Chris Sharma the best at?
In reply to datoon: I asked a simple question. Which was, what makes Chris Sharma the best in the world?
Your reply was to tell me that I shouldn't be concerning myself with such things. If you've got nothing to say on the subject why bother typing?
Thanks for your input!
Your reply was to tell me that I shouldn't be concerning myself with such things. If you've got nothing to say on the subject why bother typing?
Thanks for your input!
In reply to Leek_lad: Well, I think he has bouldered font 8c and redpointed various 9a plus routes so I would say bouldering and sports climbing.
In reply to martin heywood: yeah, but what has done on Grit?!?!
In reply to martin heywood: If that is the case I suppose it could be argued that he is the strongest rock climber in the world. I think quite a few people have climbed 9a sport routes but to have bouldered 8c on top of that is quite exceptional.
In reply to martin heywood: Take a look at the ranking on 8a.nu
Adam ondra - Hardest Sport Route - La Rambla - 9a+
Hardest boulder problem dreamtime - font 8c (Took him 4 hours apparently)
Dani Andrada - Hardest Sport route - ali hulk (sit start extension) Rodellar / alibaba - 9b
Hardest Boulder problem - el picacho total rodellar / alibaba Font 8b+
Don't think Chris Sharma has an 8a.nu account. Shame really.
Adam ondra - Hardest Sport Route - La Rambla - 9a+
Hardest boulder problem dreamtime - font 8c (Took him 4 hours apparently)
Dani Andrada - Hardest Sport route - ali hulk (sit start extension) Rodellar / alibaba - 9b
Hardest Boulder problem - el picacho total rodellar / alibaba Font 8b+
Don't think Chris Sharma has an 8a.nu account. Shame really.
In reply to Leek_lad:
Dreamtime is 8B+
Quite a few have achieved both font 8C and route 9a+
In the UK, the only person to have done this is John Gaskins, with his route Violent New Breed (9a+) and several font 8C's (eg. Walk Away ss).
Dreamtime is 8B+
Quite a few have achieved both font 8C and route 9a+
In the UK, the only person to have done this is John Gaskins, with his route Violent New Breed (9a+) and several font 8C's (eg. Walk Away ss).
In reply to dwtj:
Who the heck is Ueli Steck? ;op
Got a point tho, just because the guy hasnt got an 8a profile or (like our crazy bandanna wearing friend ‘datoon’) dosent spend his evenings online grumbling about people enjoying climbing, dosent mean hes not up there amongst the best in the world!!!
Gaskins for example, he keeps himself to himself and just enjoys his bouldering for what it is.
Im sure there are far more out there probably as good if not better than John that aren’t bothered about being recognised as one of the best.
Who the heck is Ueli Steck? ;op
Got a point tho, just because the guy hasnt got an 8a profile or (like our crazy bandanna wearing friend ‘datoon’) dosent spend his evenings online grumbling about people enjoying climbing, dosent mean hes not up there amongst the best in the world!!!
Gaskins for example, he keeps himself to himself and just enjoys his bouldering for what it is.
Im sure there are far more out there probably as good if not better than John that aren’t bothered about being recognised as one of the best.
In reply to Souljah: Dunno about that mate. Can you imagine climbing font 8c or f9a+ and keeping it to yourself? You'd have a T-shirt made and it'd be in the Buxton advertiser!!!
In reply to Leek_lad:
If you boulder on your own (as Gaskins does) you can climb what you want and tell nowone.
Im sure Simon Nadin has a few hidden gems that hes forgotten to tell the locals about!
If you boulder on your own (as Gaskins does) you can climb what you want and tell nowone.
Im sure Simon Nadin has a few hidden gems that hes forgotten to tell the locals about!
In reply to Souljah: Naaah!
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