UKC

I'm a bit bamboozled by the sheer variety and apparent quality of the E3s at Gogarth. Can anyone recommend some good 'early' E3s, that is, fairly accessible/less serious? In fact, 'safe' would be another good category. I'm thinking Supercrack might be a good starter for ten, and I've wanted to do The Moon for a long time.

Cheers

In reply to Stig: Kalahari (Castell Helen) is an easy one (E2?). The Moon (Yellow Wall) is very good, a bit of confidence required for traversing. South Sea Bubble (North Stack Wall) is good, again could be soft-touch. The Sun (Rhoscolyn), now downgraded but I feel a little stiff for E2.

In reply to Stig:

Bog Groove is an obvious one

In reply to Stig:

Was gonna say South Sea Bubble as well but I remember the start being a little interesting, a thin move to a good hold and it was a bit wet which is probably quite common at the start. Not Gogarth but how about Centrefold at Rhoscolyn, it's very good.

In reply to Stig:

I also remember doing either Syringe or The Rat Race and it was very very good, I think it was the latter cause I remember belaying on a sloping ledge/slab which would make sense according to the guide. The Sun is supposed to be super awesome but I haven't done it (yet), and I seem to remember someone saying the Big Groove was a bit dirty. Same goes for T-Rex which I always wanted to do but got put off by someone telling me it was a bit minging.

In reply to Stig: Aardvark at N Stack was good and felt more like e2 than e3, just make sure you've got a load of small wires

In reply to Matt Vigg: T Rex has a very intimidating start which could probably be made slightly less so with a friend 6. It's a good idea to attempt it when the tide is low in the afternoon, to give the sun time to dry it off a bit.

In reply to John2:

I know a man who's got one of those (or something close) so maybe I should put it back on my wish list....

In reply to Matt Vigg: Take a 4 as well.

In reply to John2:

Blimey, sounds tiring.

In reply to Matt Vigg: Don't mind some tricky bold moves at the start so South Sea Bubble sounds like a good one. And I can stick my mate on The Cad! The Sun also sounds brilliant.

In reply to Stig:

Rat Race, The Moon are a doddle for E3.
TRex is a horror show (E4 I say)
Big Groove is also soft.
Needle is good.
The Sind is not hard but wierd rock so maybe no.
Supercrack is E2; short and safe.
Wonderwall is safe and reasonable.

In reply to Stig: Strike Upper Tier.....grade debate starts again pumpy maybe E4

In reply to Stig:

Go for it, it's a great route. And you could do Talking Heads as a warm up which is also good and pretty straightforward as I remember it.

In reply to Anonymous: am voting for The Sun at E3 (i thought very similar to Plumbline at Pen Trwyn and thats E3 no questions asked). Aardvark no pushover at E2 (high in the grade and technical). Strike is safe, easily accessed and superb (if you like that sort of thing) but possibly low-end E4. Sai Dancing on Holyhead is again very good and safe but theres a distinctly 6b feeling move on it.

In reply to ksjs:

At Rhoscolyn the Sun is borderline at E3 but very good anyway, Centrefold is excellent and solid E3. Mask of the Red Death is also worthwile, I think its E3 in the guide but felt more like E2, Savage Sunbird is also very good at E2. If you're going well Electric Blues and Trail of Tears are both really good and not bad for E4. Overall I think Rhoscolyn is a great area and a bit underratted in the old guide.

In reply to Stig: I was going to reccomend some routes on the red walls but you want safe so here goes - strike E3 5c/6a good route with bombproof gear. The Moon E3 5c fantastic 2nd pitch, top pitch at 5b is great as well. Rhoscolyn - The Sun E3 5c sustained with lots of gear, a corker of a pitch. Centrefold E3 5c one of the best of it`s grade I think ! And there`s loads of cracking E2s which should not be missed either ! p.s - there`s a bird ban on red walls anyway !

In reply to Stig:

I love Gogarth and E3 is a great grade

Moon is a great trip an easy for E3
Sun at Roscollyn is correctly (IMHO down to E2, but still a fantastic route)

Rat Race is another soft touch at E3

The routes mentioned on North Stack wall really need a spring low tide as opposed to a normal low tide. However Blue Peter as E4 would get E3 (but poorly protected) at many crags and is at the less tidal end of the crag

T Rex is superb, E4 in the morning, E3 on a sunny afternoon

Nobody mentioned The Assasin, superb and reasonable pro, check out Syringe near by, superb but a bit rickety in places. Needle is good but maybe a bit of an eliminate

Sai Dancing on HM is also an excellent pitch

Kalahari is (IMHO) better than The Moon, albeit more seroios on account of the age of the pegs

I could go on and on and on

Kevin Stephens at Cork AIrport

In reply to mr mills: Don't worry I read the recent red walls thread! Just been reading the guide and salivating over The Sun and Centrefold. Look like stunning lines.

In reply to Kevin and everyone: Kalahari looks amazing. Cheers for the tips.

In reply to Stig: Re-anonymous - Blue Peter is a solid E4 not E3 ! possibly one of the hardest/scariest E4 Iv`e been on ! might be that i did the Sarah Green start ! not recomended as you`r first E4 but a thrilling route nevertheless !

In reply to Stig:

I know its on red walls but Fantasia is superb, one of the best, and not unsafe

In reply to mr mills:

Did it today, fantastic climbing

First (belated) visit to the area this year, reminds me how much, and why I love Gogarth so much

I can't wait for the imminent new guide, especially after seeing the sample pages on Groundup's website

In reply to Stig:

n grade order:
The Sun - E2
Penny (or what used to be called Penny, not sure what its called now that Katana is called Penny!) - Easy (E2?)
Big Groove - Can't remember so safe to assume it's ok
Centrefold - Pumpy, take lots of gear, a long pitch
Needle -Very pumpy
Syringe - Surprisingly tricky
Fantasia - Not too bad but it starts up Red Wall which I feel is a dangerous route.
Strike - Very, very pumpy
Rat Race - Third pitch is lethal, one to avoid
T-Rex - Only seconded main pitch, glad I did

In reply to mr mills:

>strike E3 5c/6a good route with bombproof gear.

C'mon, man, have a heart! Introductory E3 indeed!

In reply to the OP; Syringe, Rat Race and Winking Crack are all reasonable in a Gogarth kind of way.

There seems to have been some upgrading going on. Where on earth did Aardvark E3 come from? If that's really E3 now then that would also do splendidly.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

That's true, actually I thought Aardvark had been downgraded, although from E2 6a to E2 5c...

In reply to Matt Vigg: OK, these are all mine (or a bit mine).
Aardvark, never was E3, always been E2, but it is 6a!
Assassin, A great route and steady E3.
South Sea Bubble, A great one pitcher, soft at E3.

Other good E3's
The Strand, probably E2 today
Winking Crack, probably undowngradeable
Strike, desperately technical on one move.
Quartz Icicle, probably E2 with modern gear.

On the Main Cliff
The Needle
Big Groove

More adventurous stuff
The Moon
Mantrap
Left Hand Red Wall
Any one of the 'Red Wall' routes, Wendigo is probably the only one still getting E3.

In reply to Al Evans:

Did the strand used to get E3? I remember it only having one move on it going left near the top, brilliant route of course.

In reply to Matt Vigg: At first it did, it was also heralded as the first ever proper 6a in the UK, I'll try and sort out the original description for you

In reply to Matt Vigg:

Ok, I was wrong it was UK's first 6b, I have not found the original description yet, but I have posted the relevant page of 'Welsh Rock' in the historical gallery if the mods pass it.
Al

In reply to Stig: I did super crack this weekend and found it to be a bit pumpy and greasy. Jams felt insucure and its steep.

I do however agree with most of the comments below, and the moon isnt that serious and soft at E3 I think.

Sun is superb, rat race, needle, assasin etc all good too,

last years model (or is it this years, i forget) very good but again pumpy.

Pergyl was great too - done that twice, though the first time i went off line and did the slab section of the drunk.

Mask of the red death is very good

Tried T rex in the morning once both myself and a friend failed to keep our feet on and popped. I recomend the afternoon and large cams.

In reply to Al Evans:

That would be interesting to read, maybe it felt like 6a with dodgy shoes and high above your last chockstone! I remember watching a brilliant video of some (probably extremely well known) American solo the strand and it looked at least E3.

In reply to Al Evans:

6b, blimey! Sounds like there's a story behind that. How do I get to the historical gallery?

In reply to Matt Vigg: 'I remember watching a brilliant video of some (probably extremely well known) American solo the strand'

Henry Barber.

In reply to Tyler: I thought Penny was hard. Found "Electric spanking of war babies" much easier. Do these count as Gogarth E3s?

In reply to Matt Vigg: Just click on photos at the top of the page, then you will be given an option which gallery to visit, but I dont think it has been posted yet Still worth a visit though

In reply to Al Evans:

Excellent, it's there already, thanks.

In reply to Al Evans: Fantastic, now I really do have a ticklist!

Sorry to disappoint but with decent weather and perfect conditions coinciding on the correct weekend (for the first time ever!), we stayed in the Pass.

between us we did:
Left Wall Direct
Memory Lane
The Thing

Superdirect
Resurrection
Comes the Dervish

Incredible weekend!

In reply to Stig:

What is Left Wall Direct?

In reply to The Purple Pimpernel:

Straight up for the last few moves where the original jugs left, I guess.

In reply to The Purple Pimpernel:

The 6b direct finish.

In reply to The Purple Pimpernel: The direct finish, E3 5c

In reply to Stig: I`ll second that ! But do you think it warrants a whole extra E grade though ! ! !

Very good pro, just a tad bit more techy !

In reply to Matt Vigg: get this as 6b? as suggested im not even sure if this warrants the extra E grade. the pockets on the left are total sinkers, you shouldnt fall once you get them and getting to them is no more technical than the climbing on the 'normal' version of Left Wall.

this whole thing is a bit of an enigma: the natural line for Left Wall is the direct finish. quite why it has 'always' been done going left is strange. equally so with Cemetery Gates and the Grim Jim finish: i did this recently and it is utter quality and should be THE way to do Cemetery Gates (in 1 pitch too and none of this splitting it at the ledge business).

i havent done the right hand finish to Resurrection but this also looks like the natural / logical line rather than stepping left. i wouldnt be surprised if this was THE way to do Resurrection.

In reply to ksjs:

>the natural line for Left Wall is the direct finish.

Nonsense. The natural line is to follow the enormous jugs leftwards. That's why that's what everyone did for forty-five years or so.

jcm

In reply to ksjs: I thought it was worth 6A (which is what it gets in the Ground Up guide). It definitely makes the route harder because it comes when you're pretty pumped. Agree totally about the finish to Cemetery Gates - the Grim Jim finish makes it a proper E1.

In reply to ksjs: The line of least resistance...

In reply to ksjs:

Yeah actually I haven't done the direct finish so that was second hand knowledge. Thinking back to who told me that it probably wasn't very reliable second hand knowledge either...

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: but the direct finish to Left Wall is THE natural end to the line. surely one of the characteristics of a good trad route is a natural line? going left avoids the line and the climbing and seems slightly artificial.

In reply to Matt Vigg: ive only seconded the direct finish but the climbing is certainly no harder than 6a and didnt really that seem different from whats lower down.

In reply to ksjs: But the direct finish is eliminate keith....

In reply to ksjs:

Rubbish. The natural way to go is the easiest way (almost always, not I suppose if the easiest way is particularly devious, as on Resurrection). The direct finish might have various qualities, but being the natural end to the line certainly isn't one of them. You might as well say Lord of the Flies is the 'natural' line of Right Wall.

jcm

In reply to ksjs:

Both are slightly flawed - the easiest one by being a deviation and the direct by being escapable

In reply to martin heywood: hello Martin! yes, maybe you and JCM are right but it does seem somehow logical / correct to finish up the crack, it is a crack climb after all.

In reply to ksjs: If and when I get back up there I would like to do it.I cant see many E2 leaders going for the onsight though, what a pisser to fall off the last move. Bet its been onsighted in ignorance a fair few times though..

In reply to all:

So where exactly is this other Left Wall on Gogarth?

In reply to Stig:

I was very impressed by The Sind on Yellow Walls a couple of weeks ago. Sitting under the 2nd pitch looking at it trying to work out how else to get out is delightfull.

In reply to kevin stephens: Left Hand Red Wall? A brilliant route!

In reply to Al Evans:

Great, back on topic!

So far i've only climbed Wendigo on Red Walls so lots to go at, LHRW and Infidel for starters