UKC

ive owned the rope from new, it has been cared for carefully and subject to what would typically be described as 'medium' use.

'out of the box', the rope flattened when lowering off and within less than a year it developed significant sheath slippage which contributed to the sheath being twisted around the core along the length of the rope giving poor handling. while giving soft falls, the rope, even from the start, has not been ideal.

the slippage has continued to worsen to the extent that i sent it back to the UK distributor last week; it was becoming very difficult (and dangerous - excessive locking off to pay out rope) to belay with a gri gri and the sheath had become worn near the ends. this wear happened virtually 'overnight' yet i can point to no particular incident that may have caused it. my view is that the wear was caused by the sheath bunching and therefore not running freely through the belay / quickdraw when lowering off / falling. this resulted in increased friction which created the wear (fuzz).

the rope has now been returned to me stating that the wear is congruent with use in a sport climbing situation (i thought sport ropes were designed to run through lower-offs and quickdraws!) 3M of sheath was also removed and it was suggested that i cut 5M rope at both ends to remove the worn sheath section.

i am unhappy with what has happened and under Beal's 3 year warranty would have expected a replacement rope. regardless of wear, the sheath should not have slipped to the extent that 3M excess sheath could be removed. i am annoyed with the wear near the ends - i dont think this excessive wear would have happened without sheath slippage in the first place.

the stated slippage performance for the rope is 0mm (and then in smaller writing below this '+/- 5mm / 2m') which i understand to mean that the max slippage is 1.5M. in this case slippage has been double this.

there are various posts on the forums relating to poor performance from Beal ropes, in particular slippage so i know im not alone in this.

- am i reading the slippage performance information correctly?
- is my suggestion as to how the wear happened (sheath bunching) plausible?
- should i be satisfied at the outcome here i.e. just accept that there has been slippage and that the distributor has concluded there is no fault or defect in manufacture or materials?
- anything else i should consider in terms of future use of the rope?

In reply to ksjs: a touch on the long side maybe so heres an abridged version:

should the sheath on a 60m rope slip to the extent that its possible for 3m excess sheath to be removed (manufacturers spec for slippage on the rope is 0mm and then in smaller writing below this '+/- 5mm / 2m')?

In reply to ksjs:

How old is the rope? How often has it been used (be truthful)? Did you cut either of the ends off the rope before the slippage occurred?

How did you uncoil the rope? Did you just dump it on the floor or uncoil it like the pic below

http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ropeuncoil5kd.jpg

Do you only use a grigri to belay with? Is the rope only used for sport climbing/indoor climbing?

Ropes are fragile and if you took repeated falls on a short section (like sport and indoor climbing can do) then some damage should be expected, sometimes this damage can manifest in strange ways. If you answer the questions we can get a clearer picture of the usage pattern.

Rob

In reply to ksjs: I have a beal edlinger II and i have only just noticed that the sheath slipped greatly when i was abbing off it the other day (full length). I spoke to someone in the know about ropes and he claimed that its just beal ropes that tend to slip the most. Im not sure how bad yours is but mine was pretty bad as i nearly got stuck 10 m from the group when the sheath got stcuk in my prussic!

In reply to anthonyecc: That's crazy, if I were you or ksjs I'd contact the shop you bought it from and beal, maybe i'm naieve but I'd always assumed that 0% slippage meant precisely that-but two cases seems more than a bit suspect, sounds like false advertisement at best and potentially dangerous at worst.As you say your prussic jammed, this could just have easily been your belay device, ascender etc. and just think if you were in a more committing situation like a multipitch or in winter this could have been a lot worse.Depending on how long you have the rope, send it to beal and get it checked out and hopefully you'll get your money back.There's no reason that you should accept a substandard product which is so integral to your safety.

In reply to ksjs:

i have had exactly that problem with a beal before. a mates rope goes from 10.4mm to 9.2 under load which makes lowering on a gri gri a nightmare esp if the cliomber is heavier than the belayer.

my old beal 10.2 seemed to fluff up with use, making it hard to use with a gri gri. it had some shetah slippage but fortunately didn't compress under load.

my opinion is that Beal quality is a mixed bag and they should be avoided.

In reply to anthonyecc: i think 3M is pretty bad (unacceptable): that means 5% slippage. there are various (too many) posts on here relating negative experiences about Beal ropes for it to be co-incidence. they seem have a real 'hit and miss' reputation and not without cause; a leading UK outdoor retailer (serious one not pretend) advised me that they do not stock Beal ropes for precisely the reasons i and others compalin about:

- flattening when lowering
- sheath slippage (resulting in)
- kinking / poor handling

In reply to john howard 1: my rope is about 4 years old and i have already had to chop 3 m of each end.

In reply to anthonyecc: the thing is tho that i haven't had any problem with the rope ( it has handled very well) I put it down to use but if ou guys think that its not then i might try send it off!!

In reply to anthonyecc: I also have an edlinger ii and whilst the sheath hasn't slipped at all yet,the rope flattens out a lot after even a few short falls?It also seems to be a fair bit thinner than the stated 10.2mm?My girlfriend however has a pair of 9mm superdry jokers and they are absolutly lovely ropes and seem to be very hard wearing so far?Looks to me to be a case of suck it and see?Not ideal when it's ropes we are talking about

In reply to roblo: rope is 18 months old. usage has been medium: occasional use in the UK (maybe 2 days a month on average prior to the last 2 months or so when ive been been doing more sport [maybe twice a week over this period] ), 15 weeks sport abroad when the ropes been used on average 4 days a week for about 6 ascents a day. its only been used rarely as a top rope.

rope flattened when lowering as soon as it was 'out of the box' and sheath slippage began in under a year. i havent cut the rope.

rope has been treated carefully throughout (im paranoid about my gear and ropes in particular): uncoiled properly, ropebag used, washed as required, brushed occasionally, ends swapped to keep wear even, rope pulled through regularly to remove kinks and always careful to avoid sharp edges / running over rock.

i use a gri-gri to belay and yes i fall but im not taking 10 consecutive falls or anything like that on same section.

the wear on the rope is a function of the sheath slippage (i believe). the rope has been used carefully, correctly and, based on industry usage notes, certainly not intensively.

the sheath should not have slipped as it did, the wear shouldnt have occured and i shouldnt be looking at having to buy a new rope after 18 months infrequent use.

In reply to mikekeswick:

Definitely not, I assumed that rope manufacturing was a highly regulated activity, with high standad quality control, because they're such a crucial item of safety equipment, but there you go.I'll definitely take all this into consideration when I buy my next rope.

In reply to ksjs:

I would understand that to be a 5mm slip per 2m of rope giving a total of

(60/2)*5mm = 150mm or 15cm sheath slippage for a 60m rope.

That would mean that your rope has failed their spec by a factor of 20?!? I'd point this out to them and suggest that they are clearly in breach of the Trades Descriptions Act. If your rope is representative of the product they need to change their stated specification, if it isn't then clearly they should replace it as defective.

Perhaps I misunderstand their specification though?

In reply to ksjs:

Incidentally is the rope one of the newer narrow 9mm type singles? I've always wondered if belaying a narrow single rope with a device designed for a standard thicker one would put more strain on the sheath? I can think of reasons why it might...

In reply to john howard 1: you have the wrong end of the stci, the slippage data attached to the rope relates to therope as tested when new and the figures stated are the actual and allowed results. Over time the rope softens and with use the tension that holds the sheath to the core is broken down (mainly by the action of belay devices). Therefore you cannot expect zero slippage after prolonged use, any rope that gave this would not pass the impact and other performance criteria dynamic ropes must deliver. Rope manufacture is a comprimise between a whole bunch of performance characteristics. Its up to you to match the rope to the intended usage.

In reply to Wrongfoot: its 10.2mm

In reply to nealh: Ah yeah, sorry if i didn't make it clear, but yes i know that all dynamic ropes stretch and sheaths slip over time and with prolonged use, but the sheath slippage from the core, stretch and flattening of the ropes seem a bit excessive in these cases, 3 metres and 6 metres respectively seems a bit much, I'd expect it from an old cheap single rope used excessively by climbing clubs for abseiling and dogging and which has pretty much served its time in terms of falls and general abuse, but after 18 months of light use on an expensive, suppsoedly top of the line rope?I know i'd want my money back.

In reply to ksjs:

Oh well that's that theory scuppered (for your rope anyway).

In reply to nealh: good knowledge BUT there is a difference between reasonable slippage and excess. i guess the crux of the issue is where this difference lies and how use changes this? FWIW i have owned 2 Mammut half ropes for 4 years and they are perfect compared to my 18 month old Beal rope. equally, my partner has a Mammut single rope (the Galaxy) that is older (3 years or so), has been used indoors regulary, used as an abseil rope on sea cliffs which is more confidence inspiring to climb on and better to belay with than my Beal.

regardless of the fact that Beal are undoubtedly within the letter of the law and any problem with my rope will be attributed to use i feel really disappointed with the rope / Beal. not just because of my experience, more because it seems that problems with Beal ropes are commonplace and i dont think this should be the situation for a serious piece of kit.

In reply to ksjs: I am actually quite shocked as it is a bit of a revelation that Beal ropes have a tendancy to not last as long as other makes. I assumed that Beal were somewhat market leaders when it comes to innovation and technology and testing (they were the first ropes to pass the sharp edge test).
I have had a good few years out of my rope but after my experience last week when the prussic came to jam on the sheath i will be treating it with dubiousness! I am due for a new rope anyway!