UKC

After spending ages the other evening trying to undo a fig. 8 knot after several shortish, leader-falls I was
wondering if there are any secret tips to ease the process in such eventualities.

My leader took maybe four or five 2m falls before finally getting through the crux, but when he got back
to the ground, the knot was incredibly tight and took a long time to undo. The rope in question was quite
well used, but it had recently had the original end cut off, so it wasn’t “super-furry”. Also, approx. 12 - 14m
of rope had been paid out at the point of falling.

I’ve heard that looping the rope once right through the leg loops and waist band before completing the
second part of the fig. 8 might help, but we didn’t try this on the night. Does this make any difference?

Any thoughts?

In reply to Fraser: use a bowline

In reply to deacondeacon:

Is that definitely easier to untie once loaded? (Never used it, so I don't know.)

In reply to deacondeacon: another vote for the bowline too.
In reply to Fraser: You can also try and push the top curve of the rope so that it sort of folds over the straight part of the rope, to try and loosen it (sorry can't explain it any better than that - you are trying to form a loop of rope through the centre of the 8). That has worked for me in the past.

In reply to Fraser: Oh yes, much easier to untie.

In reply to Fraser:

Yep

In reply to lynda:

You mean the final tail you'd normally have could be doubled back to form a loop, before putting it through the last part of the fig. 8?

Will maybe try a bowline next time....once I find out how to tie one!

In reply to Fraser:

I can't quite picture what you're suggesting here. Do you mean the rope passes twice through the tie-in loops?
I suppose that would reduce the strain on the knot slightly but I've never seen it done or suggested before. Would the friction cause problems in a fall?

In reply to Fraser:

you could do more finger strenght training.....the result being that you will both be able to undo your knot and potentially fall less in the first place :p

In reply to Fraser: No, the top part of the 8 can be pushed over the rope so that it forms a hump with the straight part of the rope coming out at 90 degrees to the loop of the 8. It just loosens the knot just enough

Next time I see you down the wall or out and about, I'll show you how to tie the bowline. Alan showed me and it was a revelation.

<hijack> We got engaged by the way <end hijack>

In reply to Fraser:
At the risk of derailing your thread into something thats been done to death on here, I'll tell you the secret to untying your knot after a succession of short falls...

Bowline

shhh...

In reply to deepsoup:
Blimey. I am slow off the mark.

In reply to Morgan Woods:

Ouch! But I reckon if you don't fall as much, then you're just not trying hard enough ("...or are good enough", I hear you say!)



In reply to Lynda:

Congrats you you both! Thanks, I'll try and see if I can make sense of your instructions on the deck.

F

In reply to deepsoup:

Has anybody suggested using a bowline yet?

In reply to Fraser:

Is there any connection between you finding it hard to untie the not after loading and the rope being shorter?

In reply to Fraser: http://www.animatedknots.com/bowlineclimbing/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.j...

Here you go mate. Always put a stopper knot on it. Its also worth noting that its not always obvious to see if you've done it incorrectly so make sure you've mastered it before you use it.

In reply to JimMcQ:

If I understand your qu. correctly, then I was meaning that the bit of rope being tightened, wasn't a piece (ie the original end of the rope) that had received lots of wear and tear/abuse from falls, tightening or knot-tying since it was new.

I don't know if that makes a difference or not, but had assumed it might.

I seem to remember reading that some ropes are slightly differently 'constructed' at the ends - maybe that's just a myth!

In reply to deacondeacon:

Cheers, yes found a couple of sites which also mention the stopper requirement.

In reply to Fraser: learn to tie a bowline.

In reply to Fraser: Many people like to use a bowline which is definately easily untied. However, I must admit that I don't think this is a particularly important atribute for attaching yourself to the rope with.

"Dressing" the knot, (i.e. making sure that it is nice and neat, the rope running next to each other exactly with no twists and pulling it tight before hand) should ensure that it is easy to undo in most cases.

If it is still hard work then try the following tricks: Try and "break" the knot by flexing it between two hands. Or, try rolling it under your palm over a surface, the crag is pretty useful for this.

In reply to Fraser:

Double-loop bowline with yosemite finish. It's a strong knot - the double-loop brings it up to pretty much fig-8 strength. It also (allegedly) cannot roll when cross-loaded so is technically safer when belaying from rope loop. I can tie it quicker than a rethreaded fig-8. It's easy to undo after repeated loading. The yosemite finish eliminates the need for a stopper knot. Can't see any down-side, m'self!

In reply to quadmyre:

Sounds interesting, just frmom the name (assuming you're not making it up!) Wil google and see what's what.


Re the other suggestion about 'dressing' and 'breaking' once back on ground: this know was waaaay too tight for that, I'm afraid. Well, I don't know exactly how dresed it was before setting off on the route, but once finished, we thought we were going to have to cut the damned thing!

In reply to Fraser:

Double bowline:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bowline

Then add the yosemite finish like this (shown on a single bowline):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Yosemitebowline.jpg

Job done.

In reply to quadmyre:

That's very helpful, cheers for the links.

F

In reply to Fraser:
I usually resort to teeth.