UKC

OK so everyone agrees that the bent gate and tight end go to the rope and the straight gate and baggy end go to the gear.

But ....
Is it better to have both biners opening on the same side, or opening one to the right one to the left?

In reply to Gavin Taylor: I don't think there's any advantage in having them all going the same way one direction or the other. I like to have mine half one way half the other. So that way if there's an edge on one side or the other i don't risk having the gate opening through contact.

In reply to Frank4short:

Do you keep them organized in different combinations or just fumble around for the right one?
(Is it obvious that I'm just trying to avoid working?)

Can't say I've ever done this, all my QDs are made with open slings so if I want to change gate side I'll just unclip the krab from the rope end and re-clip the other way round, but....

However you've got your QDs setup, is there anything wrong with spinning the gear end round if it turns out having the gate on one side is obviously better to the other, ie the narrow end of the krab would be through the gear and the wider end through the QD sling?

In reply to tommcdonna:

Apart from annoying your second, a brilliant solution!

(And now it's coffee time.)

In reply to tommcdonna:

Having now engaged brain and thought about this, I'd say you'd likely increase your chances the sling becoming unclipped from the gear end in a fall.

Sling rides up over the gate (which for arguements sake is facing up), you fall off, sling snags on krab nose preventing it from sliding back down onto the non-gate part of the krab, gate is opened, sling is now unclipped and you're falling further.

I reckon it's pretty unlikely, but is it a worthwhile risk?

In reply to Gavin Taylor: That will depend on how you naturally clip on gear/bolts.
Other than in specific situations like, let's say, an edge pushing on the gate, the rope should run from behind the gate side and out in front the solid side.
So, i normally grab the krab holding it so the gate faces towards my body, and, let's say, if i clip a bolt on my right, i'll be passing the krab right-to-left, so i'd want the 'rope krab' to be facing outwards. Hence, i got the krabs facing opposite ways.
People who'd naturally clip left-to-right with the right hand will want to have them opening the same way.
Confusing, i know, but it makes sense...

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Sounds quite convincing.
Just noticed in the little DMM banner advert to the left that they are shown facing opposite ways, which you assume is recommended (or does it just look nicer?)

In reply to Gavin Taylor: It depends on the way you hold the binners and clip them. It's like people racking them in the harness gate out or gate in...
Just grab some draws with the right hand and clip them somewhere on your right, then look which way the rope krab is facing. You want the gate to be facing away of you.

In reply to Gavin Taylor:

It makes no difference - its just personal preference ( i prefer opp facing)

In reply to tommcdonna:
Most my biners are designed so the sling can't snag above the gate anyway. Certainly seems to be bigger things to worry about to me.

In reply to Gavin Taylor:

The quickdraw is stronger if the gates are on opposite sides, because oriented like that the force is closer to the spine of the crab.

For crack-climbing I always orient my quickdraws the "wrong" way, i.e. gates on same side. That way both gates are facing away from the crack when I clip a piece of pro. That way there is less risk that the crab will be held open by rock. Shock-loading an open crab is one of the most common way for carabiner failure, something that often will have dire consequences.

In reply to jwi:


Another interesting idea - amazing how such a seemingly basic thing has so many subtleties

In reply to Gavin Taylor:

I always understood that having the gates in opposite direction makes clipping when you are gripped easier. If, for example you are forced to clip with your right hand, the draw will go into the gear from right to left, and then the rope will go into the draw from right to left, so everything can be done easily without having to swap hands or change position. It's hard to explain, but maybe have a play, you might see what I mean.

Personally, I can see that this might be useful if you are climbing hard sport routes or something. Personally, I don't climb hard enough for it to really make a difference, and I find there are plenty of instances in trad where you need the gates on the same side to avoid them being opened by projecting bits of rock. My own QDs are a real mish-mash as they are on open slings and often get swapped around depending on what my requirements are at the time.

As long as your gates aren't being held open by anything, I don't think there is any real safety advantage in having them one way round over the other, so just go with whatever works best for you....

In reply to jwi:


Are you certain that is true? Biners are designed to transfer the load onto the spine. I'm not sure if having them opposite directions makes much difference. I always do because that is what I'm used to but I don't see what's wrong with gates on the same side. For instance. BD sets its QDs up that way, I can't believe they would do that if they knew it would make the QD weaker.


Can you explain this further as I can't see why it would make a difference? There are two scenarios I can see as well crack climbing - where the gear is nuts and and where the gear is cams that will have the whole QD oriented 90 degrees differently anyway. If you are climbing a hand or fist crack and placing cams, then the QD is 'in the crack', parallel to the sides of the crack. If you are climbing fingers and placing nuts (the normal way round) then the QD is parallel to the outer rock face.

In reply to Gavin Taylor:

i prefer the same way, makes more sense in terms of gate against rock
to my mind, and more importantly i can trivially work out which way to put the rope in, something i find more difficult if they are opposite !

In reply to jwi:


Uhm... no. It makes no difference to the strength of the quickdraw which way around the krabs are - either way the force is transmitted down the spine.

For sport climbing at least I reckon you're better off (safer) with gates facing same way. The reason for this is that when clipping a bolt off to one side the and the draw gets pulled horizontal that orients the gate on the bolt biner in such a way that it can't slip and get the nose snagged in the bolt in any way which is a definite possibility if you clip the other way around - assuming you always clip the rope end such that the rope runs over the spine of the biner rather than the gate, which you should.

In reply to Gavin Taylor: Turning the Krab around so that the gate opening's at the sling end does introduce the possibility of the system failing in the same way as backclipping, especially on radically on asymmetric krabs.

No idea what the odds of this really happening are but it's easy enough to simulate that I'd be concerned.

In reply to Gavin Taylor:


I've started putting almost all of them on a bandolier; much less fumbling, not least because it significantly de-clutters my gear loops.

In reply to TobyA: Eh, I was told qds where stronger when the gates faces each other, by a guy on BD. That was a while ago, when the slings where fatter and crabs had slightly different geometry. Thought it made sense. Not that I can imagine that it will ever make a difference in real world, the sling will always break before the crab anyway.

For crack climbing, I find it very common that I clip a QD on a nut that is seated quite deep in a flaring crack, with gates on the same side the QD can be oriented so that both gates are facing away from the rock. This scenario happens quite often, pay attention to it the next few pitches of crack climbing and you will notice I am right.

In reply to Gavin Taylor:

The chances of the QD self-unclipping are reduced if the gates both face in the same direction.

http://www.climerware.com/unclip.shtml

In reply to Gavin Taylor:
you clip,you choose.