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In reply to ben stokes:
Maybe it's time to re-open the "Is climbing Art" debate!
Maybe it's time to re-open the "Is climbing Art" debate!
In reply to ben stokes: amazing isn't how, how two people post the same thing at the same time - re BBC bouldering by steve
In reply to ben stokes:
Well, I am totally gobsmacked.
I mean!
As you say: odd.
Do you think he got the idea from the Rocktalk thread where people wanted a boulder in their garden?
Well, I am totally gobsmacked.
I mean!
As you say: odd.
Do you think he got the idea from the Rocktalk thread where people wanted a boulder in their garden?
In reply to almost sane: What gets me, is that I spent a long time clearing boulders on Portland this winter, and this one seems to be as good or better than any of them...and it was shipped away!
Wonder how much it cost...and whether the BMC will fund the cutting and moving of more.
Wonder how much it cost...and whether the BMC will fund the cutting and moving of more.
In reply to ben stokes:
This one came up while you were in the Lakes, but until this latest information I understood the boulder was still in Portland. Not clear from the news if it is now at Compton Verney (although it does look like that in the picture) but I will check on the way home and if it is shall return later with my slippers and chalk bag. Joy a bouldering site in the middle of Warwickshire.
Any one else coming down?
This one came up while you were in the Lakes, but until this latest information I understood the boulder was still in Portland. Not clear from the news if it is now at Compton Verney (although it does look like that in the picture) but I will check on the way home and if it is shall return later with my slippers and chalk bag. Joy a bouldering site in the middle of Warwickshire.
Any one else coming down?
In reply to Horse:
Damn and blast, gardens don't open till Saturday which is when I go on hols to the beach for a week. Still something to look forward to for when I come home.
Damn and blast, gardens don't open till Saturday which is when I go on hols to the beach for a week. Still something to look forward to for when I come home.
In reply to ben stokes:
So who is claiming to be the sculptor of this! Typically arty-farty, the miners who actually dug it up get no credit as artists, but as soon as some toff calls it "Unnamed boulder" then he's a radical conceptual artist.
Load of arse.
So who is claiming to be the sculptor of this! Typically arty-farty, the miners who actually dug it up get no credit as artists, but as soon as some toff calls it "Unnamed boulder" then he's a radical conceptual artist.
Load of arse.
In reply to Willyb: Perhaps I should claim some of the boulders I cleaned this winter as art. I probably had more input than this (p***)artist. They already have names...Fiver to look at the 'Jungle Boulder'!
In reply to almost sane:
When I win the lottery i am going to live at Font cos they all have boulders in their gardens...sigh!
When I win the lottery i am going to live at Font cos they all have boulders in their gardens...sigh!
In reply to ben stokes:
Acess to the grounds and lake at Compton Verney is gratis.
Acess to the grounds and lake at Compton Verney is gratis.
In reply to Francine:
HAving the largest collection of art in yer back garden must be cool.
This settles the deabte of is climbing art? no, the rock is. Some artist put it in a garden for an exhibition and it is the rock itself that let's you climb. Rock climbing could not be art without the rock could it?
HAving the largest collection of art in yer back garden must be cool.
This settles the deabte of is climbing art? no, the rock is. Some artist put it in a garden for an exhibition and it is the rock itself that let's you climb. Rock climbing could not be art without the rock could it?
In reply to Willyb:
Did I miss the point? I thought the artist was suggesting the rock only became art with the addition of the climbers...... neither was art by itself?
Did I miss the point? I thought the artist was suggesting the rock only became art with the addition of the climbers...... neither was art by itself?
In reply to Carolyn:
That's what I was thinking... a post modern view of a transfoming art piece.
That's what I was thinking... a post modern view of a transfoming art piece.
In reply to Casey:
Eh?
Couldn't have put it better myself! (Obviously!!!)
Eh?
Couldn't have put it better myself! (Obviously!!!)
In reply to Willyb:
Last year the "art in the park" at Compton Verney feature the construction of three huge mushrooms. Not the correct name but thats what they look like, they are in fact supposed to be models of the stilt like things local barns and the like were built on to keep the rats out.
There are 3 of them just inside the main drive entrance made of local willow and cherry branches and you can walk around inside them. Not sure how high they but probably in the region of 5m or so.
Last year the "art in the park" at Compton Verney feature the construction of three huge mushrooms. Not the correct name but thats what they look like, they are in fact supposed to be models of the stilt like things local barns and the like were built on to keep the rats out.
There are 3 of them just inside the main drive entrance made of local willow and cherry branches and you can walk around inside them. Not sure how high they but probably in the region of 5m or so.
In reply to Horse: if it is on your way home see if they will let you in, they can only say no.
In reply to ben stokes: well im an artist. this kind of thing is tedious. we've all seen it a billion times at art college. the only reason this kind of thing gets done is because the "artist" grafts at the PR aspect. it doesnt make it art. it isnt art. it is pissing around.
In reply to sutty:
Called in on the way home. Fine lump of rock sitting in the middle of the lawn, good overhand and great landing of freshly laid turf.
There ended the fun. Uniformed security type arrives who is a sort of combination of "more than my jobsworth and get orff my land". Wasn't in the mood for negogiation of temporary relaxation of the rules.
Oh well doesn't look like the lump is going anywhere so have to wait till I return from hols.
Called in on the way home. Fine lump of rock sitting in the middle of the lawn, good overhand and great landing of freshly laid turf.
There ended the fun. Uniformed security type arrives who is a sort of combination of "more than my jobsworth and get orff my land". Wasn't in the mood for negogiation of temporary relaxation of the rules.
Oh well doesn't look like the lump is going anywhere so have to wait till I return from hols.
In reply to jude calvert-toulmin:
"well im an artist."
We all are Jude - every single one of us. Even those of us who haven't been to "art college".
Mick
"well im an artist."
We all are Jude - every single one of us. Even those of us who haven't been to "art college".
Mick
In reply to jude calvert-toulmin: Were you aware that your good friend Johnny Dawes is involved with this work of art?
In reply to John2: so what? ive got my own opinion on things. im not johnny's PR person, im his mate, give me a break. do you fawn over everything your friends do John? i doubt it.
Mick: is that another Aldous Huxley quote?
Mick: is that another Aldous Huxley quote?
In reply to jude calvert-toulmin:
No, just some homespun truth .
Like you say everyone has their own opinion on things - included art. Does that not make us all art critics? And hey - we can all make paper planes - that's art (and science) and we can all critique them.
Artist we all are I think. Let's celebrate this. Have a pint and curry for me and raise your glasses - to our art.
cheers,
Mick
No, just some homespun truth .
Like you say everyone has their own opinion on things - included art. Does that not make us all art critics? And hey - we can all make paper planes - that's art (and science) and we can all critique them.
Artist we all are I think. Let's celebrate this. Have a pint and curry for me and raise your glasses - to our art.
cheers,
Mick
jct sprayed: "im not johnny's PR person, im his mate"
Same thing in the climbing world Jude -ct. God you are inexperienced girl.
Mick
Same thing in the climbing world Jude -ct. God you are inexperienced girl.
Mick
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA: im not judging anything by it being "in the climbing world" Mick, and nor will i ever i hope. im judging things by the everyday world i see and experience around me. despite what people might think, i am not into toadying and arse-licking and being a "yes man". no siree. if i were, id be in politics not in full time parenthood.
i got a press release email about this artistic project. ive said off the top of my head what i thought. im entitled to do that, as a person with opinions.
people keep telling me i am "famous". well i am not famous and much as i would like to think that my opinions hold weight, they dont. i am nothing more than a housewife who has had a couple of articles published in a specialist sports magazine. my opinions matter zilch.
and i will continue to be honest even if it means not fitting in with what i am "supposed" to say as so and so's mate.
and dont be patronising to me Mick. you know i like it when you're fawning to me and agreeing with everything i say much better
by your logic, we've sent a few very nice emails therefore you should be licking ass right now. mine.
see? you knew you were making sense
i got a press release email about this artistic project. ive said off the top of my head what i thought. im entitled to do that, as a person with opinions.
people keep telling me i am "famous". well i am not famous and much as i would like to think that my opinions hold weight, they dont. i am nothing more than a housewife who has had a couple of articles published in a specialist sports magazine. my opinions matter zilch.
and i will continue to be honest even if it means not fitting in with what i am "supposed" to say as so and so's mate.
and dont be patronising to me Mick. you know i like it when you're fawning to me and agreeing with everything i say much better
by your logic, we've sent a few very nice emails therefore you should be licking ass right now. mine.
see? you knew you were making sense
In reply to Az:
See my earlier posts, basically the house and grounds have been shut for sometime due to major refurb work and don't reopen till tomorrow. I will be on hols then so went to try and get a sneak preview; unfortunately offialdom wouldn't let me play.
See my earlier posts, basically the house and grounds have been shut for sometime due to major refurb work and don't reopen till tomorrow. I will be on hols then so went to try and get a sneak preview; unfortunately offialdom wouldn't let me play.
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:
Can't agree with any of that, me ol' mucka mickey. Sadly, too many people won't even consider walking through the door of a gallery, let alone consider the work inside. It's easy to see a pile of bricks on telly and think "All modern art is bollocks.", but that's prejudice, not an opinion. It's easy to look at the Mona Lisa on the same page as a Boulder on a Lawn, and say "The one on the left is beautiful, therefore it is Art, but the one on the right is just a giant rock." That's illogical, and misses the point of Art.
With regard to this particular piece of Art, it could be that the artist is taking the piss, and it's just a piece of rock on a lawn. Bearing in mind however that it's intended to be viewed with climbers on it, then I imagine some people might think it's a metaphor for the ultimate futility of all mankind's trivial pursuits on the planet. Whether the artist intended them to think that or not, as far as those viewers are concerned, it's Art. To most people here however, it will remain a heinous figure of four to the sprag, then a slap for the top.
Which is cool, and would completely flummox the cravate-wearers.
Jeez, sorry, I'm rambling again. Nuff. What happened to the Fish's trip to Fife?
See ya,
al
> Like you say everyone has their own opinion on things - included art. Does that not make us all art critics? And hey - we can all make paper planes - that's art (and science) and we can all critique them.
Can't agree with any of that, me ol' mucka mickey. Sadly, too many people won't even consider walking through the door of a gallery, let alone consider the work inside. It's easy to see a pile of bricks on telly and think "All modern art is bollocks.", but that's prejudice, not an opinion. It's easy to look at the Mona Lisa on the same page as a Boulder on a Lawn, and say "The one on the left is beautiful, therefore it is Art, but the one on the right is just a giant rock." That's illogical, and misses the point of Art.
With regard to this particular piece of Art, it could be that the artist is taking the piss, and it's just a piece of rock on a lawn. Bearing in mind however that it's intended to be viewed with climbers on it, then I imagine some people might think it's a metaphor for the ultimate futility of all mankind's trivial pursuits on the planet. Whether the artist intended them to think that or not, as far as those viewers are concerned, it's Art. To most people here however, it will remain a heinous figure of four to the sprag, then a slap for the top.
Which is cool, and would completely flummox the cravate-wearers.
Jeez, sorry, I'm rambling again. Nuff. What happened to the Fish's trip to Fife?
See ya,
al
In reply to Al Downie: I thought the point was the problems that the climbers create on it, which will exist once they have been climbed even though they will not be visible to someone looking at the boulder. Objects in this world have a significance beyond their visual appearance.
In reply to John2:
You obviously haven't seen how much chalk I intend to put on the thing, my tracks will be blisteringly obvious to all concerned and they will remain on the overhang even after rain.
You obviously haven't seen how much chalk I intend to put on the thing, my tracks will be blisteringly obvious to all concerned and they will remain on the overhang even after rain.
In reply to Horse: Mine will get there before yours do - I'm not going on holiday next week. Thanks for the info concerning the access situation.
In reply to John2:
do they? i alwayz thort that nothin exists that u canna experience, so th boulder and enything on it doesnay exist until th moment u experience it, after all no one on this forum exists
do they? i alwayz thort that nothin exists that u canna experience, so th boulder and enything on it doesnay exist until th moment u experience it, after all no one on this forum exists
In reply to Soapy: Yes they do. Why do tourists trek to see the house that Handel used to live in in London, and why do Hendrix's guitars fetch so much at auction? It's nothing to do with the objects themselves, it's to do with their history and associations.
In reply to John2:
You'll have to be quick. Just had a call from the Boss and for completely unconnected reasons she has requested that we delay departure for Pembroke till tomorrow evening or Sunday morning. So I should be there tomorrow, when are you planning to go?
You'll have to be quick. Just had a call from the Boss and for completely unconnected reasons she has requested that we delay departure for Pembroke till tomorrow evening or Sunday morning. So I should be there tomorrow, when are you planning to go?
In reply to Horse: Damnit. I'll be going past on my way home tonight, so I'll see if I can sneak in. Otherwise not till Monday.
Just popped over and had a chat with the artist and and quick play on the boulder. there should be a good range of problems, although mainly eliminates. He's a sound chap and is quite interesting to listen to.
Get over there and play, he's really keen for people to get on it, after all... he's a climber too.
Mick if you can afford the plane ticket I'll put you up for a night. America may have boulders, but are they art?
Get over there and play, he's really keen for people to get on it, after all... he's a climber too.
Mick if you can afford the plane ticket I'll put you up for a night. America may have boulders, but are they art?
Would landscaping be considered art? Maybe if someone defaced this rock with some spray paint... then it could be considered art. Go throw some candy bar wrappers and soda cans on the rock, then it would really be art... Art is very subjective. Whether you agree with the statement or not, the artist is manipulating this natural object and placing it for others to view/climb and become part of the art piece.
Can't beleive there are so many local climbers. And you don't belong to the local club, Warwick Climbing Club!
We were generously invited to the special preview night on Wednesday. Had a lovely hour or so scrambling over it and, I agree with the previous poster, the artist does seem like a nice guy.
The whole point of the piece of art is to have people climbing on it, otherwise its just a dead piece of rock, so he is very keen for your support.
I've just booked myself on the first workshop with Jonny Dawes at 11am tomorrow so I'll see anyone down there.
Can't beleive we've suddenly got some real local rock!! Yippee.
We were generously invited to the special preview night on Wednesday. Had a lovely hour or so scrambling over it and, I agree with the previous poster, the artist does seem like a nice guy.
The whole point of the piece of art is to have people climbing on it, otherwise its just a dead piece of rock, so he is very keen for your support.
I've just booked myself on the first workshop with Jonny Dawes at 11am tomorrow so I'll see anyone down there.
Can't beleive we've suddenly got some real local rock!! Yippee.
In reply to Adrian Bates:
What a boulder and Johnny to boot, glad the Boss delayed kick off of the hols. Is Johnny there all day?
What a boulder and Johnny to boot, glad the Boss delayed kick off of the hols. Is Johnny there all day?
In reply to Horse:
Yep, as I understand it. He is doing a workshop for experienced climbers from 11-1 and a session for beginners 2-4 or some such. Check out his web site for details:
<a ref="http://www.johnnydawes.com">http://www.johnnydawes.com
Adrian Bates
<a ref="http://www.geocities.com/costablancaclimbing">Costa Blanca Climbing
www.geocities.com/costablancaclimbing
Yep, as I understand it. He is doing a workshop for experienced climbers from 11-1 and a session for beginners 2-4 or some such. Check out his web site for details:
<a ref="http://www.johnnydawes.com">http://www.johnnydawes.com
Adrian Bates
<a ref="http://www.geocities.com/costablancaclimbing">Costa Blanca Climbing
www.geocities.com/costablancaclimbing
In reply to Adrian Bates:
One day I'll get that to work.
Try this:
ROCKFAX web site
http://www.johnnydawes.com
Adrian Bates
Costa Blanca Climbing
www.geocities.com/costablancaclimbing
One day I'll get that to work.
Try this:
ROCKFAX web site
http://www.johnnydawes.com
Adrian Bates
Costa Blanca Climbing
www.geocities.com/costablancaclimbing
In reply to Adrian Bates:
Cheers mate. I'll try and get there for the workshop.
Cheers mate. I'll try and get there for the workshop.
In reply to Adrian Bates:
That would be this page as detailed in the UKClimbing news page.
This HTML stuff can be annoying, I agree. Got to do your closing </a>.
Anyway, who's going to be first to add this to the UKClimbing crags database? Full OS ref please.
Charles (crossed fingers I typed the HTML right... or hoist with own petard..)
That would be this page as detailed in the UKClimbing news page.
This HTML stuff can be annoying, I agree. Got to do your closing </a>.
Anyway, who's going to be first to add this to the UKClimbing crags database? Full OS ref please.
Charles (crossed fingers I typed the HTML right... or hoist with own petard..)
In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC editor:
Job Done.
Job Done.
In reply to Al Downie:
The trouble is that this kind of art is no longer about whether you know about art or not, or whether you've got a closed mind or not. Some modern art's point is precisely that it challenges what art is by being what we expect art not to be (e.g. Duchamps' toilet). This is fine, and all very conceptual and everything, but it has ended up with there being no boundries to what art is. Art has therefore ended up being an empty word that can mean anything, everything and nothing all at the same time. Wittgenstein said that a words meaning is nothing more than its use, and there has to be agreement on it. Since there is no agreement anymore 'art' no longer qualifies as a word and is just a sound to which we each atribute our own interpretation: it is useless. Is climbing art? Who cares!
The trouble is that this kind of art is no longer about whether you know about art or not, or whether you've got a closed mind or not. Some modern art's point is precisely that it challenges what art is by being what we expect art not to be (e.g. Duchamps' toilet). This is fine, and all very conceptual and everything, but it has ended up with there being no boundries to what art is. Art has therefore ended up being an empty word that can mean anything, everything and nothing all at the same time. Wittgenstein said that a words meaning is nothing more than its use, and there has to be agreement on it. Since there is no agreement anymore 'art' no longer qualifies as a word and is just a sound to which we each atribute our own interpretation: it is useless. Is climbing art? Who cares!
"we can all make paper planes" Does anyone know how to make the tubular paper planes - they fly brilliantly and you can stack them together. Sorry, dwelling from the point. How quickly is this boulder going to polish up! End of the year?
In reply to Chris Fryer:
This boulder aint art. It's quarrying - destruction. Any ninkumpoop can get a big piece of rock....hold on. I'll shut up.
Mick
This boulder aint art. It's quarrying - destruction. Any ninkumpoop can get a big piece of rock....hold on. I'll shut up.
Mick
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:
The boulder in itself is not art. How it is placed/used to be examined by others is art (albeit unsophisticated).
The boulder in itself is not art. How it is placed/used to be examined by others is art (albeit unsophisticated).
In reply to ben stokes:
anywayz, dipt th fare tae banbury, wez goin up ther cos froggerz missus livz in the bretch, shez a nice girl, no a lookah, but wiv sevn kids an a thirst on er like, nuff sed.
me bein th artic ulat one sez howz aboot casin this ere pile in th wudz, soz we hotwird a cav n aftr a spot o b&e arrivd at the verney manor.
wat cun ah say... a pishin pebbl in th grass, ah fookin tript oer it, ay yer man sez 'i want climbers to leave their tracks', well ah pisht on it right enuff.
theres a cupla otha jokerz a mr marcus coates whos, an ah haev to quote this 'His work is littered with the childlike attempts to transform himself from human to animal;wooden blocks are strapped to the artists feet as a way of replicating the stance of a stoat or the artist supends himself to a tree in the pose of a goshawk..' an ah thought ah wuz ravin afta a few swallys.
ah sez pity th poor imp ov erisht folks o th midlnds fer no crags, feckin sittin astryd a pebbl sdesperat, but is it art, ay its art if th luvviesll throw afew lotto grand at it rite enuff, an ah fackin do th lotto, n how many grantz hav i got, a big fat zero, ah cud ty mesel t a tree ' ah but soapy you haven't an MA and frankly we don't like the cut of your jib' aw pish, ere rummy pass us bit o pigeon, nay ahm off the ronnys, had a bad bigmac from the skip yestday
anywayz, dipt th fare tae banbury, wez goin up ther cos froggerz missus livz in the bretch, shez a nice girl, no a lookah, but wiv sevn kids an a thirst on er like, nuff sed.
me bein th artic ulat one sez howz aboot casin this ere pile in th wudz, soz we hotwird a cav n aftr a spot o b&e arrivd at the verney manor.
wat cun ah say... a pishin pebbl in th grass, ah fookin tript oer it, ay yer man sez 'i want climbers to leave their tracks', well ah pisht on it right enuff.
theres a cupla otha jokerz a mr marcus coates whos, an ah haev to quote this 'His work is littered with the childlike attempts to transform himself from human to animal;wooden blocks are strapped to the artists feet as a way of replicating the stance of a stoat or the artist supends himself to a tree in the pose of a goshawk..' an ah thought ah wuz ravin afta a few swallys.
ah sez pity th poor imp ov erisht folks o th midlnds fer no crags, feckin sittin astryd a pebbl sdesperat, but is it art, ay its art if th luvviesll throw afew lotto grand at it rite enuff, an ah fackin do th lotto, n how many grantz hav i got, a big fat zero, ah cud ty mesel t a tree ' ah but soapy you haven't an MA and frankly we don't like the cut of your jib' aw pish, ere rummy pass us bit o pigeon, nay ahm off the ronnys, had a bad bigmac from the skip yestday
In reply to ben stokes:
Pretty gutted actually!!!!!!
Just been down to warwick to see my sis.
Popped into lockwoods to get some new stickies and the guys there told me about this Crompton Verney thing and said that Johnny Dawes was gonna be their on saturday.
But I already planned to watch Robbie Williams @ Milton Keynes so I couldnt get down to see it.
The show was crap and I wish I'd gone to see "Living art" instead!!!!!!!
Pretty gutted actually!!!!!!
Just been down to warwick to see my sis.
Popped into lockwoods to get some new stickies and the guys there told me about this Crompton Verney thing and said that Johnny Dawes was gonna be their on saturday.
But I already planned to watch Robbie Williams @ Milton Keynes so I couldnt get down to see it.
The show was crap and I wish I'd gone to see "Living art" instead!!!!!!!
In reply to Soapy: flippin ek soapy, you made me laugh with your description of the compton verney boulder, wish you would put it into the vernacular for the southerners.
Casey , I hope you CAN understand it, he has it spot on.
Casey , I hope you CAN understand it, he has it spot on.
In reply to sutty: who needs the vernacular luv? just take it as it comes! soapy is a bit of a star isn't he? i dont mean in the Marc C vein, but he is def showing his mettle. rock on soapy, rock on
Has anyone actually been to this boulder? Is it any good? The point is that i now have a place to go bouldering on the way home. Obviously. What is art?
In reply to adam:
We went yesterday afternoon. Its good, in a smallish sort of way. Its a tilted cube about 12'x 12' x 12' on a lawn by a lake by a country house. Think straw hats and Pimms, Fontainbleau meets Glyndebourne. Two of the faces are very easy and cluttered with kids. Then there's a slabby wall with a couple of independent lines - maybe Brit 5c/6a? Then an overhanging flowstone (really!) face with two lines plus sit starts - a bit harder. Then quite a lot of scope for eliminates.
Weirdly we were told that after next weekend the whole place shuts down for two years. They didn't even know whether the boulder stays or gets trucked off somewhere else.
We went yesterday afternoon. Its good, in a smallish sort of way. Its a tilted cube about 12'x 12' x 12' on a lawn by a lake by a country house. Think straw hats and Pimms, Fontainbleau meets Glyndebourne. Two of the faces are very easy and cluttered with kids. Then there's a slabby wall with a couple of independent lines - maybe Brit 5c/6a? Then an overhanging flowstone (really!) face with two lines plus sit starts - a bit harder. Then quite a lot of scope for eliminates.
Weirdly we were told that after next weekend the whole place shuts down for two years. They didn't even know whether the boulder stays or gets trucked off somewhere else.
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