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"On Monday night (July 28th) I led my Echo Wall project. It was for me a perfect climbing day.
Read more: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=07&year=2008#n45231
Read more: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=07&year=2008#n45231
In reply to UKC News: Great News, Just waiting for Sonnie and Steve to do it now?
In reply to UKC News:
Wow! Well done Dave. Really enjoyed reading about the build-up to the climb on your blog, feeling inspired to go out and push my own limits a little...
Wow! Well done Dave. Really enjoyed reading about the build-up to the climb on your blog, feeling inspired to go out and push my own limits a little...
In reply to UKC News: Nice on Dave, a great looking line. It was funny to see the first report of this on Facebook!
G
G
In reply to UKC News:
Well done Dave!
(Really interesting blog entries from both Dave and Claire, too.)
Well done Dave!
(Really interesting blog entries from both Dave and Claire, too.)
In reply to UKC News:
Just awesome. Got woken up with a message from my mate to say it had been led. Didnt believe him so dragged my ass out of bed to check. Congratulations all round. Look forward to seeing the footage.
Stewart
Just awesome. Got woken up with a message from my mate to say it had been led. Didnt believe him so dragged my ass out of bed to check. Congratulations all round. Look forward to seeing the footage.
Stewart
In reply to UKC News: what a guy, totally inspiring stuff, legend. Looks like he has finally had a haircut too!!
In reply to UKC News:
Holy f*ck, different world Dave, tremendous achievement.
Looking forward to the video
12/10 for style and effort!
Holy f*ck, different world Dave, tremendous achievement.
Looking forward to the video
12/10 for style and effort!
In reply to UKC News:
Good effort there. Even the description is nails.
Good effort there. Even the description is nails.
In reply to UKC News: Nice one Dave, and nice one Claire.
In reply to UKC News: Yeah, well done, Dave!
PS Weren't some major first ascents done recently in Lancashire & at The Roaches by a UKC contributor? Maybe I missed the news item...
PS Weren't some major first ascents done recently in Lancashire & at The Roaches by a UKC contributor? Maybe I missed the news item...
In reply to Matt Vigg:
Maybe it's a reverse Samson effect?
Good Effort.
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Thank God, at last - he cut his hair.
>
> Thank God, at last - he cut his hair.
Maybe it's a reverse Samson effect?
Good Effort.
The man's unstoppable.
Oh and a sainthood for claire - the world's most long-suffering wife?
Oh and a sainthood for claire - the world's most long-suffering wife?
In reply to Marc C: Yawn...
In reply to Marc C:
Please try to understand that lower forms of climbing life aren't comfortable with seeing their mediocre efforts so thoroughly put into perspective. Struggle with it in the knowledge that history will (or at least might) vindicate you! You're a modern day Fred Rhouling!
> PS Weren't some major first ascents done recently in Lancashire & at The Roaches by a UKC contributor? Maybe I missed the news item...
Please try to understand that lower forms of climbing life aren't comfortable with seeing their mediocre efforts so thoroughly put into perspective. Struggle with it in the knowledge that history will (or at least might) vindicate you! You're a modern day Fred Rhouling!
In reply to UKC News: Well done Dave, what a mental looking line, it looks amazing! Brilliant effort as ever.
In reply to ClimberEd:
Dave did it for you:"Grade: Harder than Rhapsody (or anything else I've been on)"
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Can't wait for the grade debate on this one!
>
> Can't wait for the grade debate on this one!
Dave did it for you:"Grade: Harder than Rhapsody (or anything else I've been on)"
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
That's only the first blood. Harder technical grade or harder subjective grade? :-p
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
> [...]
>
> Dave did it for you:"Grade: Harder than Rhapsody (or anything else I've been on)"
> [...]
>
> Dave did it for you:"Grade: Harder than Rhapsody (or anything else I've been on)"
That's only the first blood. Harder technical grade or harder subjective grade? :-p
In reply to The Bantam:
ps. I couldn't care less by the way. A great achievement on a great line, and that is what counts - not which way you combine the letters and numbers at the end.
ps. I couldn't care less by the way. A great achievement on a great line, and that is what counts - not which way you combine the letters and numbers at the end.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
so it is E12 then? or 7b? or both???
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
> [...]
>
> Dave did it for you:"Grade: Harder than Rhapsody (or anything else I've been on)"
> [...]
>
> Dave did it for you:"Grade: Harder than Rhapsody (or anything else I've been on)"
so it is E12 then? or 7b? or both???
In reply to The Bantam:
Well said.
> (In reply to The Bantam)
> A great achievement on a great line, and that is what counts
Well said.
In reply to UKC News: Congratulations, an amazing achievement and a stunning jump in standards for rock climbs on Ben Nevis.
What happened to the original thread reporting this last night?
What happened to the original thread reporting this last night?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Yeah I saw that, on that basis it should be E12 - straightforward, harder than anything else he has been on, so a grade step up.
Of course they'll be loads of people saying, oh no, E12 can't possibly exist. You die if you climb an E10 route so it can't be harder than that, or some such nonsense....
Yeah I saw that, on that basis it should be E12 - straightforward, harder than anything else he has been on, so a grade step up.
Of course they'll be loads of people saying, oh no, E12 can't possibly exist. You die if you climb an E10 route so it can't be harder than that, or some such nonsense....
Congratulations Dave on an utterly awesome effort! The sheer logistics of getting to the base of the route look hard enough ... let alone the climbing above.
I think he should go straight in with E13 ... skip a grade ... that'd start some real controversy!
I think he should go straight in with E13 ... skip a grade ... that'd start some real controversy!
In reply to ClimberEd:
Or E11. Just because it's harder doesn't mean it's a grade up.
Not that it matters, congratz to Dave anyway!
> Yeah I saw that, on that basis it should be E12 - straightforward, harder than anything else he has been on, so a grade step up.
Or E11. Just because it's harder doesn't mean it's a grade up.
Not that it matters, congratz to Dave anyway!
In reply to UKC News:
I accidentally walked up to this wall over the weekend (whilst getting lost). Couldn't believe how mental it looks, nice one Dave.
Incidentally, I'm impressed that Dave didn't lose motivation just walking up that scree all the while
Awesome!
I accidentally walked up to this wall over the weekend (whilst getting lost). Couldn't believe how mental it looks, nice one Dave.
Incidentally, I'm impressed that Dave didn't lose motivation just walking up that scree all the while
Awesome!
In reply to UKC News: inspirational as always, need to go work on my bat hangs now
In reply to UKC News:
Good effort Dave! Yes the grade matters, but only because it illustrates the level that Dave is operating at. Its nice to see that, for the likes of Steve and Dave, the climbing is doing the talking. The lines are there for anyone else to come and try, if they have any doubts about the grades.
Ben
Good effort Dave! Yes the grade matters, but only because it illustrates the level that Dave is operating at. Its nice to see that, for the likes of Steve and Dave, the climbing is doing the talking. The lines are there for anyone else to come and try, if they have any doubts about the grades.
Ben
In reply to Anonymous:
Dave seems to be in a really awkward situation with naming a grade. Especially after the fuss that E11 seems to have kicked off, I'm not surprised he's unwilling to name anything definite. Must be quite demoralising to give a project that has been your life, your best shot, literally put your life on the line, succeed, give it a grade you think fair for the investment of time, effort and training you put in, and to watch UKC then endlessly speculate as to whether that grade really exists or is 'just a franchise', whatever that means.
Good effort Dave! Hope he doesn't feel like he needs to justify it with a number to satisfy punters like us.
Dave seems to be in a really awkward situation with naming a grade. Especially after the fuss that E11 seems to have kicked off, I'm not surprised he's unwilling to name anything definite. Must be quite demoralising to give a project that has been your life, your best shot, literally put your life on the line, succeed, give it a grade you think fair for the investment of time, effort and training you put in, and to watch UKC then endlessly speculate as to whether that grade really exists or is 'just a franchise', whatever that means.
Good effort Dave! Hope he doesn't feel like he needs to justify it with a number to satisfy punters like us.
The line looks stunning.... Amazing achievement... The scale looks quite overwhelming.... Whats is left for him to do!?
In reply to david Pike:
nice one Dave! A fantastic achievement, one that took me by surprise! I had been following the blog and thought that Dave was not quite ready and then boom in the bag...inspirational!!
nice one Dave! A fantastic achievement, one that took me by surprise! I had been following the blog and thought that Dave was not quite ready and then boom in the bag...inspirational!!
In reply to UKC News:
1. 30m Climb easy slabs to a belay at the foot of the grossly overhanging arête of the buttress.
2. 70m Pull into an overhung groove and exit this with immediate difficulty.
dammit! my rope is only 60m. guess i'll just have to pass on it...
fantastic effort, can't wait to see the video,
cheers
gregor
1. 30m Climb easy slabs to a belay at the foot of the grossly overhanging arête of the buttress.
2. 70m Pull into an overhung groove and exit this with immediate difficulty.
dammit! my rope is only 60m. guess i'll just have to pass on it...
fantastic effort, can't wait to see the video,
cheers
gregor
In reply to UKC News: Well done, fantastic effort.
Marc: are you SURE that Roaches route isn't chipped?
Marc: are you SURE that Roaches route isn't chipped?
In reply to UKC News:
Good God, I thought this was years away. Fantastic.
And I would say thank God it's over - I'm sure I wasn't the only armchair viewer wondering whether this was really a wise undertaking - except of course that the incredible DM may well have some more projects in mind shortly...
jcm
Good God, I thought this was years away. Fantastic.
And I would say thank God it's over - I'm sure I wasn't the only armchair viewer wondering whether this was really a wise undertaking - except of course that the incredible DM may well have some more projects in mind shortly...
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
You certainly weren't alone. It does make me wonder what he's got lined up for his next project.
Something else that has struck me has been the acceleration in the way he's doing harder and harder routes. Rhapsody took about 2 years from first top-rope look to success, while this project has taken considerably less time (although to be honest, I'm not sure what the comparison is in terms of days on the route). It seems like Dave must be climbing at a significantly higher level than he was just two years ago.
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Good God, I thought this was years away. Fantastic.
>
That was one of my thoughts too. It all seems to have come together very quickly. >
> Good God, I thought this was years away. Fantastic.
>
> And I would say thank God it's over - I'm sure I wasn't the only armchair viewer wondering whether this was really a wise undertaking
You certainly weren't alone. It does make me wonder what he's got lined up for his next project.
Something else that has struck me has been the acceleration in the way he's doing harder and harder routes. Rhapsody took about 2 years from first top-rope look to success, while this project has taken considerably less time (although to be honest, I'm not sure what the comparison is in terms of days on the route). It seems like Dave must be climbing at a significantly higher level than he was just two years ago.
In reply to tony:
Well done Dave.
Anybody have any word on what rope tactics were used in the end?
There was talk of droping the rope and soloing the last bit to get free from rope drag on the 70m pitch, is this what he done?
Well done Dave.
Anybody have any word on what rope tactics were used in the end?
There was talk of droping the rope and soloing the last bit to get free from rope drag on the 70m pitch, is this what he done?
In reply to JLS:
That's what was said in the full route description:
"Continue with more ease up the arête (runout) to a small ledge (drop your left hand rope to relieve drag). Continue up steep flakes in a great position to gain easy ground and a short solo to reach Tower Ridge."
>
> Anybody have any word on what rope tactics were used in the end?
>
> There was talk of droping the rope and soloing the last bit to get free from rope drag on the 70m pitch, is this what he done?
> Anybody have any word on what rope tactics were used in the end?
>
> There was talk of droping the rope and soloing the last bit to get free from rope drag on the 70m pitch, is this what he done?
That's what was said in the full route description:
"Continue with more ease up the arête (runout) to a small ledge (drop your left hand rope to relieve drag). Continue up steep flakes in a great position to gain easy ground and a short solo to reach Tower Ridge."
In reply to UKC News: ok, for the sake of argument, let's say it's just makes the 7b grade. the UKC grade chart suggests this is about E9, so to be generous, I suggest a grade of E10 7b. of course it follows that Rhapsody should be downgraded to E9 7a, or thereabouts
In reply to Anonymous:
Oh, come on, do we have to have an arguement?
> (In reply to UKC News) ok, for the sake of argument,
Oh, come on, do we have to have an arguement?
In reply to Anonymous: troll
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Very much my thoughts. But then was the danger bigged up for marketing purposes? I don't think so, but interesting thought.
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Good God, I thought this was years away. Fantastic.
>
> And I would say thank God it's over - I'm sure I wasn't the only armchair viewer wondering whether this was really a wise undertaking - except of course that the incredible DM may well have some more projects in mind shortly...
>
> jcm
>
> Good God, I thought this was years away. Fantastic.
>
> And I would say thank God it's over - I'm sure I wasn't the only armchair viewer wondering whether this was really a wise undertaking - except of course that the incredible DM may well have some more projects in mind shortly...
>
> jcm
Very much my thoughts. But then was the danger bigged up for marketing purposes? I don't think so, but interesting thought.
In reply to Chris F: there is a strong argument for capping grades at E10, until some consensus is arrived through repeats
In reply to Anonymous: Great idea. Scottish VS worked well, didn't it?
In reply to Anonymous: and all the other E10 routes dm has done, not to mention the dave birkett E9s? E11 stands up, there is no argument.
In reply to climbingpixie:
He'd blogged it up to be so hard, he'd convinced me it was too hard to be done anytime soon given how hard it must be to find Ben Nevis the condition to even practice the route never mind the perfect conditions needed to actually lead something so mental.
He should have said,"F*ck em, it's E12", if that's what he believes. I don't think grade consensous it reached any quicker if people hold back.
Still the grade is written in stone on the Ben for thoughs that have the strength to read it.
(Perhaps Dave should literally write what he thinks the grade is on the rock after the crux in a Redhead sort of stylee.)
He'd blogged it up to be so hard, he'd convinced me it was too hard to be done anytime soon given how hard it must be to find Ben Nevis the condition to even practice the route never mind the perfect conditions needed to actually lead something so mental.
He should have said,"F*ck em, it's E12", if that's what he believes. I don't think grade consensous it reached any quicker if people hold back.
Still the grade is written in stone on the Ben for thoughs that have the strength to read it.
(Perhaps Dave should literally write what he thinks the grade is on the rock after the crux in a Redhead sort of stylee.)
In reply to Anonymous:
What does UKC know, anyway?
> (In reply to UKC News) ...the UKC grade chart suggests this is about E9, so to be generous, I suggest a grade of E10 7b. of course it follows that Rhapsody should be downgraded to E9 7a, or thereabouts
What does UKC know, anyway?
In reply to Richard Bradley:
only some light brushing. it's so "thin" am thinking of calling it Gecko Wall or maybe G-Echo Wall?
> Marc: are you SURE that Roaches route isn't chipped?
only some light brushing. it's so "thin" am thinking of calling it Gecko Wall or maybe G-Echo Wall?
In reply to Anonymous: have you ever seen iplayer.. volume goes up to 11 on that too.. always makes me laugh
In reply to Mattyk: ..and a none more black background, like the E11 DVD
Can't see this one quite getting the same repeat treatment as Rhapsody - at least not from the same people
In reply to Yorkspud:
I wonder if Dave Birkett might be interested? He did do that Skye Wall route.
> Can't see this one quite getting the same repeat treatment as Rhapsody - at least not from the same people
I wonder if Dave Birkett might be interested? He did do that Skye Wall route.
In reply to niggle: DB would probably be most likely to have a look at it.
In reply to UKC News:
Awesome - congrats dave, be interesting how long it takes for anyone to even consider repeating this...
Awesome - congrats dave, be interesting how long it takes for anyone to even consider repeating this...
In reply to teddy:
Nooooooooooooooooooooo!
2 years of us all idly speculating about Rhapsody was bad enough.
The sooner it's repeated the better I reckon. Preferably by a brit who climbs trad a lot and is willing to comment on the grade...
Mr Birkett is definitely the man for the job...
Nooooooooooooooooooooo!
2 years of us all idly speculating about Rhapsody was bad enough.
The sooner it's repeated the better I reckon. Preferably by a brit who climbs trad a lot and is willing to comment on the grade...
Mr Birkett is definitely the man for the job...
In reply to UKC News:
And hats off to Dave, of course. A sterling effort.
Call it E7 6b - (reckless maybe? But) that'd reel in the repeaters and make for some tremendous entertainment...
And hats off to Dave, of course. A sterling effort.
Call it E7 6b - (reckless maybe? But) that'd reel in the repeaters and make for some tremendous entertainment...
In reply to UKC News:
I added my congratualtions at around midnight (Eastern Summer Time, US) on a thread that seems to have disappeared today. It wasn't me guv!
I added my congratualtions at around midnight (Eastern Summer Time, US) on a thread that seems to have disappeared today. It wasn't me guv!
In reply to UKC News: Well Done. I'm looking forward to watching the film. It was really interesting reading the blog for the last half a year, seeing how his preparation unfolded, with bouldering, sports climbing, soloing, stamina bouldering and then redpointing the route. But I was really suprised that he climbed it all of a sudden as his last post suggested that it was still sometime off. That's very interesting. I guess you get to a certain point where you think you can not get to know the route any better and any more top roping could be detrimental like in Johnny Dawes's "Indian Face" essay. Well done again. You should retire now Just spend the rest of your life enjoying HS's.
In reply to Anonymous: care to register, or just looking for an afternoon troll?
Hats off to Dave Macleod. Personally I think it would be a measure of the man if he doesn't grade Echo Wall at all, and just lets the armchair punters stew.
Cheers
F
Hats off to Dave Macleod. Personally I think it would be a measure of the man if he doesn't grade Echo Wall at all, and just lets the armchair punters stew.
Cheers
F
In reply to UKC News: Well done Dave. Great to see those hours of digging snow finally got you somewhere. Inspiring stuff!
In reply to UKC News: amazing ascent of a super futurisitic mountain line on one of the most historically significant cliffs in one of the most climatically challenging mountain ranges in the world.
Ben Nevis - home to the hardest traditional winter and summer routes on the planet?
well done Dave, what an achievement!
Ben Nevis - home to the hardest traditional winter and summer routes on the planet?
well done Dave, what an achievement!
In reply to ClimberEd:
Bring on Sonnie!
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Can't wait for the grade debate on this one!
>
> Can't wait for the grade debate on this one!
Bring on Sonnie!
In reply to UKC News:
well done Dave, really insightful report on your blog too. How can you top that! massive respect.
well done Dave, really insightful report on your blog too. How can you top that! massive respect.
More inspiring pics and reports on here: http://www.velvetantlers.co.uk/blog.html
Might be worth putting the link on the news page Mick,
Gareth
Might be worth putting the link on the news page Mick,
Gareth
In reply to UKC News: How many grades less than Indian Face is it?
In reply to UKC News:
Seems to me he's inadvertantly given the grade, specific to this genre of climbing, "****", which makes rhapsody ***.
I think Indian Face will prove to be undergraded and get upped to ****.
I guess "If 6 were 9" would get **.
Perhaps the old E grade system is only applicable when a route has been onsighted.
Seems to me he's inadvertantly given the grade, specific to this genre of climbing, "****", which makes rhapsody ***.
I think Indian Face will prove to be undergraded and get upped to ****.
I guess "If 6 were 9" would get **.
Perhaps the old E grade system is only applicable when a route has been onsighted.
In reply to idc: 4 stars as in quality
In reply to UKC News:
UKC armchair critic - "yep cheers for the beta Dave, you've blown my o/s"
The point being, almost no-one here is going to be able to repeat that achievement. Attacking the grade he gives it is an insult. To suggest it's some sort of gimmick to get more sponsorship / infamy is frankly ridiculous.
Let's make this clear:
He.
Did.
It.
UKC armchair critic - "yep cheers for the beta Dave, you've blown my o/s"
The point being, almost no-one here is going to be able to repeat that achievement. Attacking the grade he gives it is an insult. To suggest it's some sort of gimmick to get more sponsorship / infamy is frankly ridiculous.
Let's make this clear:
He.
Did.
It.
In reply to Jazzy Jeff:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> (In reply to UKC News) How many grades less than Indian Face is it?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
In reply to Jazzy Jeff:
Why don't you climb it then tell us?
> (In reply to UKC News) How many grades less than Indian Face is it?
Why don't you climb it then tell us?
In reply to UKC News: is it just me or is this a bit of an anti-climax?? i was expecting it to be like autumn time!! i reckon its gotta be E12 7b cos its harder n more dangerous than rhapsody! wow just realised dave got it on his first lead attempt??
anyway congrats dave whatever the grade that was inspiring stuff, as all ur achievments are!!
anyway congrats dave whatever the grade that was inspiring stuff, as all ur achievments are!!
In reply to Erik B:
That's it! Perfectly put Erik. No more need be said. So lets put the best crag on the best hill right in the centre of the world map and big-up us Brits!
> (In reply to UKC News) amazing ascent of a super futurisitic mountain line on one of the most historically significant cliffs in one of the most climatically challenging mountain ranges in the world.
>
> Ben Nevis - home to the hardest traditional winter and summer routes on the planet?
>
> well done Dave, what an achievement!
>
> Ben Nevis - home to the hardest traditional winter and summer routes on the planet?
>
> well done Dave, what an achievement!
That's it! Perfectly put Erik. No more need be said. So lets put the best crag on the best hill right in the centre of the world map and big-up us Brits!
In reply to UKC News: There is a lot talk about the horrendous walk-in. Just wondering: How long is it to get there? Sorry, I have never been there!
In reply to Waldmeister:
To get to that part of the mountain, 3 hours-ish for most folk I would imagine.
> There is a lot talk about the horrendous walk-in. Just wondering: How long is it to get there? Sorry, I have never been there!
To get to that part of the mountain, 3 hours-ish for most folk I would imagine.
In reply to Waldmeister:
Dave had access to the Dam track, had much of his gear stashed on Tower Ridge and is pretty fast on his feet. I reckon he'd take an hour and a half or thereabouts to get from his car to the top of the route.
For the rest of us, fully laden from the bottom car park 2/3 hours, which is probably enough to ruin the on-sight in itself...
Dave had access to the Dam track, had much of his gear stashed on Tower Ridge and is pretty fast on his feet. I reckon he'd take an hour and a half or thereabouts to get from his car to the top of the route.
For the rest of us, fully laden from the bottom car park 2/3 hours, which is probably enough to ruin the on-sight in itself...
In reply to UKC News:
Well done Dave. As other people have said it was quite a shock from reading his blog to see that he'd done it. I thought it was a Macleod wind-up at first.
As to the grade...is there any point grading it? It will be years before any other bugger even thinks about repeating it, and they wont want to comment on the grade if they do it. 'Too hard' would do.
Well done Dave. As other people have said it was quite a shock from reading his blog to see that he'd done it. I thought it was a Macleod wind-up at first.
As to the grade...is there any point grading it? It will be years before any other bugger even thinks about repeating it, and they wont want to comment on the grade if they do it. 'Too hard' would do.
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