UKC

Dear All

Just out of interest i was wondering how may of you had ever fallen on an ice screw and what was the outcome of the fall?

The reason for the interest is not due to some macarbe notion but more due to whether or not a peice of metal screwed into frozen water is going to hold the fall of a 15 st Scotsman!

David

PS Im not looking for the smart arse comment of "Why dont you try it and find out!". Thanks

In reply to David Smith: I have held a fall onto a screw, my mate fell maybe four or five metres onto one, pulling out a crappy knifeblade on the other rope as he went.

I was belay unattached and slightly back to get photos, the fall lifted me off my feet and crashed me into the base of the icefall which hurt like hell, but I didn't let go. My mate ripped his troos but was otherwise unhurt.

I have fallen maybe 50 cms onto one - more of a pathetic 'slump' onto gear rather than a fall. It didn't do a thing to the screamer.

In reply to David Smith: Had my partner pull me of my belay stance so that we were both hanging. One of my screws came out and the other half out(!). There were srewed into shite mind...
As with all ice pro, the main factor in strength is the quality of the ice.

In reply to Glen: Also info. on this thread.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/caff/forums/t.php?t=13920&v=1#181014

In reply to TobyA:
I made comments before about belaying on glaciers (creavasse exit climbing) and how exciting the effects of taking a fall can be compared with a rock climb.

It can't be stressed enough that you feel a much greater proportion of the shock than a normal rock climbing loading because of the lack of rope friction as it runs over an edge. If belaying a second you really do need to have a belay position that doesn't allow you to be pulled off balance.

I have a small scar to remember this by ....

In reply to David Smith:
I fell on once outside the CIC hut, put a hole in my jacket.

In reply to David Smith:

Fell about 6 foot onto a BD express on Louise Falls. It held, my nerve didn't.

Fell twice onto a BD express, once about 10m past it, the next time about 30m past it. Both times it held fine, so they do work. Not an experiment i'm eager to repeat though....

In reply to David Smith:

Took a 50-foot upside-down free-fall fall arcing away from the ice onto a single screw, so it was a fairly good drop test. Did the job! (i.e. I'm still here).

In reply to David Smith:
No I have'nt and I don't want you getting any ideas after all that crap that they sent you.
Especially the one about outside the CIC
Doc
How's Shetland

In reply to Doc Playboy:

Doc, As David was driving Shetland bound out of the carpark I could hear his voice getting fainter "I still can't feel my fingertips - any of them". Sounds an epic.

Lex

In reply to David Smith:

I haven't, but here is a good story about a full leader fall onto a 13cm.

http://www.gravsports.com/Gadfly%20Pages/barry_blanchard_whips_ice_climbi.h...

Cheers,
D

In reply to North Col: You aren't that bloke that fell off the Ben earlier this year and had to be helicoptered off,are you?

In reply to CENSORED:

No, I've never had that pleasure.

In reply to David Smith:

I once held a mate who took a good 20ft fall onto a Screw on the RH nameless stream near Idwal, and he's still around and smiling. I was taking in the slack he was creating as he came past the screw

I have a mate who held a guy who took an 80ft whipper off weeping wall in Jasper a few years ago. There was a lot of rope slippage in the process (iced ropes, gloves, climber with backpack, etc). The leader ended up below my mate on the belay, luckily it was so steep that he didn't hit anything on the way down. The screws held and they lived to climb another day.

I heard that it used to be the case with a lot Ti screws that came out of Russia, that the hanger would often fail before the ice.

In reply to David Smith: My mate fell off Aladdin's Mirror Direct onto one. The first (13cm) ripped, probably due to too short an extender + the resulting outward pull but the second (17cm) held as he somersaulted past it and slid down the gully underneath onto the rope.

Also, there's a good comment in Paul Pritchard's book about this after a fall on Meggie.

In reply to David Smith: i've fallen on to two tied off screws. the first one was particularly pathetic - only in about 5 cm and duly came out. the second screw some way below held a 10m fall, which was quite surprising to me being tied off several cm below the end of the screw. winded but undaunted I found a better route where I didn't retest the screw.

In reply to David Smith:

Fell off the Super Colouir in 1979 onto a tied off wart hog. It bent but held, which is a good job becasue the belay was crap - no bolts in those days!

The year before Steve Bell fell 300' straight onto his mates ice scree belay on the N.Face of the Triolet - both survived.

In reply to Andy Hyslop Rock + Run: 'kin 'ell!! That sounds scarey!!

I've fallen off onto a warthog at Dover when a crampon ripped out while I was mantelling a cornice. But I'd thought the top one was poor so I'd placed a good one 5m lower down. The top one ripped noisily and the next one held. My belayer tried to persuade me to abseil off, but when I pointed out that the tide had come in, and it would soon get dark, he relented and I went back up. After some serious cornice removal I topped out. He followed by headtorch. Soon afterwards he emigrated to Scotland, but insists that it was nothing to do with the experience.

But then on chalk you can spend several minutes banging a warthog in using a lump hammer so they are trustworthy, apart from the ones in the chalk/earth mix near the top.

David.

In reply to David Smith:

Dear All

Thanks for your replys, much appreciated.

David

PS. Doc, still cant feel my finger tips!

In reply to David Smith: One last one, just before you go - last winter there was a rescue on The Orion Face after the leader had reached a belay near the top of the face, placed two screws to belay off and tied in, his second took him off belay and as the leader leant back onto the belay screws they both popped out! Fortunately the single screw a long way back down the pitch held. He ended up near enough to his second to talk to him so I guess a fall of 40m with both climbers dangling off the same single screw! He hurt his ankle but was rescued by the LMRT lowering Mick Tighe down the dace to find him.

In reply to David Smith: Thought this might be of interest ...

http://www.hi.is/~haraldg/isskrufu_paelingar.html

It will always come down to the quality of the ice though ... good ice, good pro ... crap ice, crap pro

In reply to David Smith:
I have never fallen onto an ice screw myself, but I once got involved in a rescue of a guy who had fallen a few metres onto one. The screw held and he didn't deck out. Unfortunately, his crampon also held as he fell, so he ended up with a lower leg fracture.

Last I heard we was doing fine.