UKC

REVIEW: Scarpa Phantom Lites by Jon Griffith

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 UKC Gear 21 Oct 2008
For summer Alpine and winter Scottish use it really comes down to two choices, the La Sportiva Baturas and the Scarpa Phantom Lites. Both are very good boots but on test here are the Phantom Lites so I'll just deal with these for the moment.

"I like a rugged and sturdy boot too and I was impressed by how well the outside fabric has lasted- usually canvas boots get ripped apart by the Chamonix granite but they have yet to get a rip in the fabric. As for the ice and mixed they were as good as you can get from a non-plastic boot and whilst I wouldn't wear them for temperature reasons in the winter out here I can imagine that back in Scotland they would be ideal"

FULL REVIEW: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=1352
 Morgan Woods 21 Oct 2008
In reply to UKC Gear:

Good stuff Jon. Here is a quick summary of my views of the Baturas for something of a comparison:

- generally quite good but i do notice a bit of heel slippage through out the day, partly because there isn't much support in the first place but also because the laces slip slightly throughout the day
- slight gap between the toe and the edge of my crampon (rambos) which can fill up with ice...not a huge issue i would just expect a better fit
- they have got wet on a pretty gnarly day in scotland
- not as warm as i expected although custom footbeds has sorted this to some extent

so i think they're good for continental ice but maybe not for more serious stuff....but then again i see one of the guys on the Paine traverse wore them??

anyway 6.5 out of 10 so would be keen to try the phantoms.
Fauvé 24 Oct 2008
In reply to Morgan Woods:

Good review!

Because Scarpa fit my feet, and I got them at a good price, I bought the Lites.

I have used them in Rjukan, Scottish winter and summer Alps, I love them! There always seem to be derogatory comments about the GSB system, have not had any problems at all and normally the comments are from people who have heard someone else say there was a problem.

Buy them!!!
 James Edwards 24 Oct 2008
In reply to UKC Gear:
Ive used both the Batura and the Phanton lite. Of the 2 i'd say that the Phantoms have the edge. The sole seems to have more wear in it - i think it is thicker than the Batura; important for Scotland where the walking often wears the toe down.
Also, i don't know if anyone else has found that the bend in the tongue of the Baturas that has a seam in it is a little 'sharp'?
I used the Phantoms recently on a 3 day trip involving 1100m (vert height interval) of hard laborious Scottish style mixed climbing and my feet were good as new at the end of it.
Thumbs up from me.
James e
 Erik B 24 Oct 2008
In reply to James Edwards: Im intrigued by the look of the new grivel GSB fitting... is there a hole in the boot the crampons slide into? i can see this causing problems in scotland with the muddy walk-ins then freezing of said mud as you hit the snowline/freezing level

or am i mistaken?
 Jon Griffith 24 Oct 2008
In reply to Erik B: You are correct. There is a hole at the front that has a plastic insert. If you were worried about ti you can just slip the plastic insert in and out when you are finished. I had always thought about this (well for me it would be ice and snow in the hole) but since I've never used the system I cant really comment
jon

Fauvé 24 Oct 2008
In reply to Erik B:

Erik,
as Jon said above, there is a slot where the fitting slips into. The slots come with 2 plastic inserts for when not using the crampons.

I have used them in freezing conditions and I can honestly say that they do clog up, but a good hard kick with the other boot does the trick. I have never had a problem trying to unblock the hole or get the crampons in, even in really crap weather.

They are worth the money but the down side is that they only fit compatible boots. I bought my G14's on ebay for £66 which was a bargain!

Go for it :0)
 Jon Griffith 24 Oct 2008
In reply to Fauvé:
> They are worth the money but the down side is that they only fit compatible boots. I bought my G14's on ebay for £66 which was a bargain!

What do you mean compatible? I have used both semi step in (g14) and full step in (Rambos) and they work fine....

Jon
 vscott 24 Oct 2008
In reply to UKC Gear: Pretty good boots... they'd be even better if the gaiter was a few inches higher, and the laces round the ankle replaced with a big wide velcro strap- laces always slacken off en route.
Fauvé 24 Oct 2008
In reply to Jon Griffith:
> (In reply to Fauvé)
> [...]
>
> What do you mean compatible? I have used both semi step in (g14) and full step in (Rambos) and they work fine....
>
> Jon


What I was trying to and didn't do, was say that the GSB's poons are only of course compatible with GSB Boots.

When I first used mine, I used normal G14 step ins also then bought the G14 GSB because I figured what a bargain!

I sometimes just put them on in the house, thats how much I love these boots!
 Jon Griffith 24 Oct 2008
In reply to Fauvé:
> I sometimes just put them on in the house, thats how much I love these boots!

You should become a gear reviewer with that attitude!

Fauvé 24 Oct 2008
In reply to Jon Griffith:
> (In reply to Fauvé)
> [...]
>
> You should become a gear reviewer with that attitude!


I know! I also have a luverly pair of Ajungilak down boots, any excuse I get I put them on!

Love cosy kit and really useful on my barge in winter, love it!

 AlH 24 Oct 2008
In reply to Jon Griffith: Love my Phantom Lites. Light, super comfy, sensitive enough for the climbing I do. Not as waterprrof as I expected (we had 2 pairs on a trip to Greenland and a lot of time in deep wet snow left both of us with wet feet. They've lasted me two hard winters working and playing, a 2 week trip ice climbing in South Africa and a month's solid use in Greenland and now they are finished (I have a hole right through the rubber under the toe on one foot and the gaiter has worn through on both boots). I wore them in the snow on Curved Ridge today and will be ordering a new pair next week!

Al
 Mr Lopez 26 Oct 2008
In reply to James Edwards: He, he. I was waiting for a chance to have a rant on the Baturas... So i guess is now or never.

Comfortwise...

> Also, i don't know if anyone else has found that the bend in the tongue of the Baturas that has a seam in it is a little 'sharp'?

A little sharp? It kills my feet. It cuts circulation, making the foot a bit numb, as well as catching the nerve when front pointing, and being the second place where most pressure is applied by the boot, then you can figure out how it feels after a few ice pitches.
The place where most pressure is applied? The ball of the foot. i don't know what's with the design, and it's a problem that featured in the Nepals to a lesser extent, but somehow, regardless how you place your feet and whether you are walking, front pointing, french pointing, etc. it feels like the whole body weight is held with the ball of the feet, which after a couple of ours it feels like if someone is hitting you on it with a hammer with every step, followed by compressing it with a vice to the point that i want to cry. And when you finally manage to top out (if you do), then you are looking at an even more painful prospect. The Descent! Where to the combination of the hammering in the balls (of the feet, but the feel is the same), and the bend of the tongue making it's way through your tendons, both with increasing force, you have to add the feeling of kicking a wall with every step, courtesy of the 'roomier' toe box allowing your toes to hit the front of the boot. Any attempt to tie the boots tighter to stop it is counteracted by an exponential increase in the pain/numbness caused by the tongue.
Ah, and at this stage is when you realise that the gaiter is so tight that is making the eyelets fuse into your skin, but due to the all round pain, it hardly makes any difference.

The main reason i bought this boots, is that after having had pretty bad moments with other boots, when i thought my toe nails would just pop-off due to the cold and that i'd have get an office job 'cause i'd have no feet to stand around anymore, is their supposedly "excellent heat retention which has been tested even in extreme conditions on Himalayan summits", and the promise that this was "the ultimate boot for WINTER alpinism". After all, Colin Haley used a pair of these when doing the Cerro Traverse, and if they are good enough for him... Well, Colin must have still been on drugs by then, and i believe his choice of using these boots is what made him think twice about his judgement and drove him into rehabilitation.
Is not that they are particularly cold, specially when compared with other Sportiva offerings. They actually are perfect when you are moving (in summer), with little overheating/sweat, but as soon as you stop to belay, or you reach your bivy spot, then you wish you had bought something else. Winter alpinism in them? I'd think thrice about it.
The fact that the aforementioned tongue cuts the circulation doesn't help much either.

Now, it might be that they just don't feet my foot shape (possible), and they'll probably be a few posts saying that they use Baturas and are great and it's the best boot they had. Well, lucky you, but certainly i'm not alone in my experience, i know of people who sold his on e-bay after the first use, loosing a couple of hundred quid in under a week!

But then, even if they do fit you and you share an enjoyment of uncomfortably cold feet with Andy K and Ian Parnell, you may think that having a Sportiva pedigree, the construction would be quality and that you cannot go wrong.
Really? Well, you are wrong.

Constructionwise, they must be the most disappointing bit of kit i ever owned (a la par with the Berghaus arete 45, for which i already had a rant as long as this one).
Firstly, the rubber rand that covers the toe area started peeling off due to the rubbing when walking in semi-hard snow. Not that a big problem there i thought, since there's another layer of rubber underneath. But then, surprise, surprise, the underlying rubber layer only overlaps for about a centimetre, so i ended up with a fairly big area of untreated leather being exposed in the toe area. Now, this boots aren't the warmest to start with, but having a hole in toes where the leather just absorbs very cold melt water and soaking through straight into the toes isn't the kind of stuff you look for in £300+ boots.
This happened within the first month after buying the boots, so i obviously went back into the shop. Their reply: Yes, that's happened before, but Sportiva doesn't allow the shops to deal with returns. The boots have to be sent to the Sportiva factory along with the original purchase receipt (long gone), and within 6 to 8 weeks they'll send them back repaired, or repaired at a reasonable rate. Is this the kind of service you expect from a company after buying £300+ boots? And what am i supposed to do for 2 months in Chamonix without boots?

So i keep climbing with 1 month old £300+ boots covered in gaffa tape, and a month later, the tongue starts splitting in the area where the laces rub, and after another month the tongue is so worn that now even the laces are also having a go at my foot. I just cannot believe it. Did i buy boots or Piranhas?
And just to top it all, after only 3 months use, the sole in the toe area is so worn that i'm already going through the plastic mid-layer.
No that it matters, since they'll probably disintegrate before there's a need to resole.

(Feel a bit better now)
Vip1r 07 Nov 2008
In reply to UKC Gear:

Good review-the Phantoms are great boots. I've used them for a few years now (Scotland, Alps, Ecrins, Norway and in the US) and have never had an isue with them. Providing they fit your feet, i believ they'd be hard to beat, though i have not tried the Batura so i can't make a fair comparison.
 Michael Ryan 07 Nov 2008
In reply to Vip1r:

We will have the Sportiva Baturas on test in the Alps this winter, with a full review later.
 Morgan Woods 07 Nov 2008
In reply to Mr Lopez:

i'm not surpised you may have found the Baturas a bit cold....i did, as stated above in my earlier post. one way i got around this is to pop a handwarmer in each at the start of cold days. you can hardly feel them and they do add noticable warmth esp. at the start of the day when you need it most.

i haven't had any problems with the build quality....so maybe you were unlucky and got a bad batch.

i would also add that the integrated gaitor does make a completely wet boot harder to dry...something to think about for scottish bog trotting approaches.....after 1+ hrs of this they will be soaked like any other boot.
 TobyA 07 Nov 2008
In reply to Morgan Woods:

> i'm not surpised you may have found the Baturas a bit cold....i did, as stated above in my earlier post. one way i got around this is to pop a handwarmer in each at the start of cold days.

I've read this elsewhere - but where exactly do you put the said handwarmer? I should try this with my cycling shoes to avoid the rather scary solid toes I suffered from some winters ago http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2007/02/frostbite.html but I'm not certain where they would fit. How long do they make a difference for as well?
 Morgan Woods 07 Nov 2008
In reply to TobyA:

i use the My Coal ones:

http://www.skimarket.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=164

i see from here that they have ones actually called Foot Warmers but i've only been able to buy the Hand Warmers which have been fine.

I just put them in the from toe box, then put the boot on carefully in order to keep it flat. Fitted properly you can barely feel them, 9except for the warmth). When i take them out at the end of the day they stil have a bit of residual heat, but they are most effective for the first 3-5 hrs of use.....after that you should be fully warmed up anyway. A pack is fairly cheap and i believe they are non chemical, so all up a definite comfort booster for winter climbing.
 Morgan Woods 07 Nov 2008
In reply to Morgan Woods:

that should read "front toe box".
 radson 07 Nov 2008
In reply to UKC Gear:

Interesting comments on Batura vs. Phantom lite. I saw a guy wearing Baturas between Camp 1 and Camp 2 on Everest this year and asked him how they were. He said he loved them. From memory he was the Finnish 'guide' for summitclimb. I am not sure if he used them to summit or was just checking them out in the intermediate camps. I suspect the later.
 TobyA 07 Nov 2008
In reply to radson:
> From memory he was the Finnish 'guide' for summitclimb.

I think there is still only one Finn qualified as a UIAGM guide, but if it was on Everest it must have been Veikka - who isn't a UIAGM guide - because at least according to the Finnish press that's where he seems to live!
 radson 09 Nov 2008
In reply to TobyA:

I had written 'guide' in quotation mark as I am well aware that people guiding in the Himalayas are not necessarily European, NZ or North American qualified guides. From what I have seen of some of the European guides, this is not necessarily a bad thing.

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