UKC

Just got back from this place (much against my better judgment; I've never liked the general gulag atmosphere there) and I have a number of peeves.

First of all, $9.50 to climb (and 'off-peak' at that). Is it me, or is this steep?

Second, it pisses me off when the website contains details about the carparking scheme which was abandoned six months ago, and directions to the centre which lead you smack into roadworks which have been there at least three months.

Third, I can't be the only one who can't find any of the bloody routes (speaking of bouldering here). I'm slightly colour-blind and frankly I can't distinguish the grey-white-with-a-hint-of-one-shade-of-purple holds from the grey-white-with-a-hint-of-the other-shade-of-purple ones. Consequently they might as well not have bothered setting most of the routes. How hard is it to put primary-coloured tags under the holds?

Fourth, they could do with fewer posters about how to abseil and/or Polish mountains, and instead some explanation of the basis the problems are set on (features for feet only? only to start? not at all? features and holds of the right colour?).

Fifth, WTF makes proprietors of climbing walls think the punters want hideous music at loud volume? You don't get this in five-a-side football venues, or table tennis, or any other sport I can think of. What on earth is it with climbing centres? If I want noise I'll bring an Ipod.

However, none of these were really my complaint. I booked my son on to a course and went climbing myself. He didn't like it much, and afterwards wanted to go bouldering (what he's used to). And they expected me to pay a further $7.25. Is it me, or is this crazy? Given the fuss they make on their website about children climbing, you'd think they'd make a little less effort to drive the keen ones away.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

A tenner or thereabouts is standard for London walls, isn't it? It's been a while since I last visited Mile End, but it was around that much IIRC, and the Castle is £10.50.

Agree it's greedy to charge your son extra to boulder afterwards! One of the best policies the Castle have is that kids climb for free, and if the supervising adult is just overseeing and not climbing, they go free as well.

In reply to Masood: £7 at mile end

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I am not sure what you mean? Perhaps you got lost and were trying to climb the walls of the nearby Westfield development, it would explain a lot. I climb at the Westway almost every other day, it is very friendly and they introduce hundreds to the sport every month succesfully keeping the keen ones keen. I would suggest finding your way to the centre is your responsibility, that maybe you should have asked for some help whilst there if you had questions and that you shouldn't go through life expecting to have your precious ass wiped for you.
Happy climbing,
T23

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
castle is £11 havent tried westway yet

In reply to Tekton23:

He's right but the the problem is not unique to Westway.
Amongst the millions of 'elf and safety signs (probably including some about arse wiping) there is only one outlining the basis on which the bouldering routes are set (features/holds/hands/feet etc) and that only refers to something known as the "central panel".Having established what the "central panel" is we are left none the wiser about all the rest.

In reply to Tekton23:

>I climb at the Westway almost every other day,

Congratulations. You must be a millionaire.

>you shouldn't go through life expecting to have your precious ass wiped for you

I had the distinct impression that if I'd asked for that service they'd have charged me $2.50 and asked me to fill in another disclaimer form.

jcm

In reply to Donna:


I was going to say that if I were you I wouldn't in that case, but then I remembered that the Castle is also an overpriced dump.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

i think they do annual or montly membership or something

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
You must of had a real bad time to want to post this. I am sure if you had asked one of the many people there to explain things you and your son would of had more fun.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

The westway has some advatanges... lots of long lead routes. If you want decent bouldering then the Westway is a bad choice as it is limited for that.

The Westway does do BMC discount (they don't advertise it much) but it makes it a lot cheaper.

The two main things wrong with ym last visit was the complete lack of lockers, especially as the place wasn't full and their new swipe card system that just didn't work and made the queue to get in even worse.

In reply to ginja1980:



I made a few visits at the beginning of the year & thought the new bouldering wall was excellent If it wasn't for the overheating I would have continued to visit.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

John,

$9.50 is only £5.86, which seems pretty decent value to me .

I agree with what the other poster said about the "kids go free" being a good Castle policy. They also have a lot of lower grade stuff (I'm speaking specifically about bouldering here) that is more child-friendly in my opinion.

I'm speaking as someone who no longer regularly climbs at The Castle by the way. I think it just works better for children.

--- TRN

In reply to TRNovice:

Oh and as some one who did some courses at The Castle back in the day, we were always allowed to climb by ourselves afterwards; maybe this has changed now.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: whats this about westway parking??

In reply to TRNovice:

I think the $ was a typo.

Whenever discussing the price of entry to climbing walls one should consider whether the wall has been built with lottery money and benefits from charitable status. I believe the westway and mile end are both charities and were built with some kind of government funding. Therefore VAT corporation tax and rates probably don't apply, also correct me if I'm wrong but the castle benefitted from substantial lottery grants, but is not (i believe) set up as a charity.

In which case it is unfair to compare walls such as the arch who charge very similar amounts, but are being whacked by the government every inch of the way. The question you should be asking is how come "charity walls" can charge so much when they don't pay taxes and probably benefit from every handout going,what are they doing with that extra money!!

In reply to Mike Hunt:

I think I may have dimly grasped that fact.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

its funny you find it such a terrible wall considering a load of the british team and loads of nails climbers train there....

In reply to Sersh: just because "the british team and loads a nails climbers train there" does not make it a good wall!!

saying that i like it as a wall, lots of worse that I have been to.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

You think that's loud music? In that case don't go to the Works in Sheffield, you'll go deaf...

If it's good enough for the likes of Neil Gresham, Tyler Landman and Adrian Baxter, it's good enough for me.

As for bouldering, with guest setters ranging from Steve McClure to Gaz Parry in the new bouldering room, it has routes that rival any 'bouldering only' centre.

In reply to Jay Mowat and sersh:

Which doesn't make the problems any easier to decipher, nor explain the rather appaling decision to charge separately for climbing after a course.


But not particularly relevant to a parent with young child!

See previous comment!

To answer another poster (Tekton23?) who climbs there daily or whatever, has it occurred to you that the reason everyone is so friendly is that you're a regular? A first-timer at the Westway may not find it quite so welcoming. And it is pretty frustrating to locate as you can see it, but have to navigate a warren of unobvious side streets to find the entrance if driving. And you are very wrong about one thing - giving clear directions is very much the responsibility of the business, if they want to attract customers!

In reply to Masood:

I think I was just getting frustrated with a post by someone trying to pick apart a facility they I am fond and familiar with, when from what I can see the people who run the place go out of their way to help. For example, asking the staff or actually reading one of the many posters about bouldering would have told the OP that almost every route on the bouldering wall is described on an A4 handout as part of the improvers league.

The prices quoted in some other posts on here(wingeing about the place) are just a lie. Almost £30 (i assume you mean £'s and not $'s) for a father and son to climb, must have including at least rental and/or payment of a course.

I don't think the friendliness has anything to do with being regular there, it has been consistently welcoming since I first went a few years back, mind you I find ALL of the walls I have climbed at in London, the UK and France welcoming.

I am assuming the bit about colour-blindness was a wind-up. I mean seriously, how soft and padded do you want this world to be?

T23

In reply to Jay Mowat:
The last couple of sessions at the works have been accompanied by banging drum 'n bass, which has been outstanding. I love the Works soundtrack, it gets you really fired up.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

I love the loud music, stops you from hearing the kids scream.

T23

In reply to Tekton23:

You need to chill a bit mate!!!!! Clearly you are fond of the Westway, but it's not a personal attack on you!

I've climbed there many times, although not a regular, and I don't entirely agree with that. Some staff are friendly and helpful, others are churlish and arrogant, seemingly capable only of monosyllabic grunts when asked questions.


See above re. staff, and I have never seen any posters detailing the A4 handouts.

Whoa! No lies at all - the OP was very clear that his son was on a course. Try reading posts before spraying accusations around! His objection was to having to pay extra for climbing after the course. I think that is out of order, and certainly the Castle don't do that. I don't have extensive experience of other walls, but it is unusual practice.

My experience has been somewhat different - I think it depends on which member of staff you encounter and what kind of day they are having.

That's not disingenuous, but quite offensive. The whole point of using coloured holds is to distinguish routes/problems from each other, right? Using very similar-coloured holds next to each other is confusing enough for non-colourblind people, particularly once they get chalky. It doesn't take a genius to either make sure that holds on any given panel are of contrasting colours, or use coloured tags to identify separate problems, does it? Would you also object to ramps for wheelchairs on the basis that they make access too easy?

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

But Paul, given that other people no doubt hate it, why on earth don't you just take an Ipod if you want to listen to this stuff?

jcm

In reply to Tekton23:

The posters did indeed tell me that if I wanted to I could go and spend a further quid entering a league I didn't want to enter. I wasn't very impressed by that as a way of explaining the problems. Of course I could ask people - and did, though I can't say I noticed any staff on hand - but that doesn't alter the fact that it would be better to put up an explanation instead of posters about Polish abseiling.

I did mean pounds but since my keyboard pound sign doesn't work I took the rash risk of using the $ sign on the assumption people would be able to work it out.

As to Tyler Landman et al. Malcolm Smith trained in his front room but that doesn't mean it was worth thirty quid for myself and my son to go there.

As I said my $30 quid figure included $9.50 for me, $12.50 for my son's course and - it was this that I thought was a ridiculously greedy demand - a further $7.25 for my son to stay on and boulder after the course. I'd be interested to know if anyone cares to defend this or if this is standard practice anywhere else - it certainly wasn't at Mile End. It also included $1.50 for the car park instead of the $1.00 advertised on the website - not a great amount but bad, dishonest business and symptomatic of the way the place appears to me to carry on.

I've never found any other wall unwelcoming but the Westway is consistently nasty. It's not the staff but the way the whole place is set up.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


Having happily abandoned the UK sinking ship in 2005 I am somewhat out of date on London climbing walls. However ... isn't the key difference between the Castle, Mile End and the Westway that the latter is part of a local government owned facility whilst the other two are privately run? Is any other explanatory factor required?

I have an unfortunate condition that makes me 'see' music as colour and depending on what type of music is playing, the colours change. This greatly affects my climbing; hard techno can turn a purple juggy 5A into an awkward balancey 7B, whilst a mellow Leonard Cohen can turn a crimpey 7A into a mellow 6B+. I can't believe the Westway haven't taken this into account. I also sometimes have a rather sweaty forehead when I reach the top of a climb and there is nobody there to hand me a kleenex, at literally £40 a month for unlimited climbing, I would expect more.
T23

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Jeez mate, so much anger in you. I'm glad you didn't like it, as as wouldn't like to have you around. It's a great wall, not overpriced at all, with great routes and problems . If you have a problem reading the problems talk to them sure they can add tags, or better talk to the climbers we are all a happy bunch there.

Also, as you know, is a non-profit organisation. Every penny gets re-invested and they are constantly upgrading the wall and they do a good job.

Happy climbing dude

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:



Rash indeed, as you should know that this site is inhabited by rapacious investment bankers such as Tobyfk and myself, who had immediately sold millions of Mile End entry tickets short, hedging with a long position in Westway, funded by a carry trade in JPY hedged against the dollar.

On a less serious note, I tend to agree, asking someone to pay to stay on after a course is utter pish.

Oh, and in response to someone else, Mile End is run by a charity, whereas the Castle (AFAIK) is privately-owned. Not sure about the WW.

In reply to Nic:


This may be nonsense but I think the difference is that Mile End started life as a private charity (and a pretty odd one too: like me you will recall the days when it was still the North London Rescue Commando and had a core mission of training prepubescent east end boys to recover imperilled shopping trolleys from the canal) whilst the Westway - which does now appear to pose as a charity - started life as a hellish bureaucratic offshoot of Westminster Council. Or something like that.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: But on the plus side it presumably doesn`t allow dogs in!

In reply to tobyfk:

Yes I do remember the bizarre days of the NLRC...Mile End is still a charity but its objectives are now somewhat different (I think the key focus is on training prepubescent east end boys to recover imperilled valuables from houses by scaling the external walls)....or something.

In reply to tobyfk:

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.