UKC

Anybody drilled holes in their Rockcentrics?

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 Merlin 01 Nov 2008
Tips, advice, experiences please?
In reply to Merlin: Why?
 Al Evans 01 Nov 2008
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: Used to drill holes in the very big Hexes, but you have to be careful not to weaken them or they could collapse. The design of Rockcentrics makes me think it is an even worse idea.
 petestack 01 Nov 2008
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> (In reply to Merlin) Why?

To invoke the added protection of Holy Rockcentrics?

OP Merlin 01 Nov 2008
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

To shed some weight.
 Eddie1234 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin: wouldn't you rather have a bit of extra weight and be able to know your gear wont break?
 billy.grant 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin: You're not going to be shedding that much weight though and I'd agree that knowing your gear won't break is probably worth carrying the extra grams!
martin k 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin: there are many ridiculous threads on UKC, but this is one of the worst offenders. given the density of the material used, you will save no more than 20 grams depending on the size and number of holes. this is a negligible weight saving that will make zero difference to your climbing.

you need to get a sense of perspective and wake up to the foolishness of what you are suggesting i.e. that in return for saving 30 grams, you are prepared to compromise the integrity of your gear. you will put your life in danger and that of your partner who may also use it. tell me this is a joke!

if you want to save some significant weight, eat less chocolate, exercise more and have a poo before you go out climbing in the morning. if you lose 4lb this way, you have reduced your weight by 1800g...do you see what i mean by "perspective"?

perhaps i could also suggest investing in some lightweight kit that is not safety compromised?

good luck (you'll need it)
 Ian McNeill 01 Nov 2008
In reply to martin k:
well put .... cant say much more .... got to be a troll !
 fishy1 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

Even I wouldn't do it, and I seriously considered sewing my own slings.
 James Oswald 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:
I think this makes some of my unintelligent posts look brilliantly intelligent.
Baz47 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:
Done this on Hex's but rock nubbins/crystals poke into the holes and make them harder to get out.
OP Merlin 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Baz47:

I seriously thought it was pretty much the norm on the older Hexes?
merchant of menace 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin: firstly ,if your interested?
considering the previous posts.
people do drill holes in their rockcentrics and nuts.
secondly you aint gonna save a lot of weight
thirdly you are going to weaken them.
that said i do drill holes in my large passive pro, mainly because i can , and do it carefully.
i could save weight by carrying less and "having a shit" before going out, but there is still drilled holes in my hexes :-P
OP Merlin 01 Nov 2008
In reply to james oswald:

How is it un-intelligent?! Presuming done correctly it doesn't structurally damage the kit and it saves weight?
OP Merlin 01 Nov 2008
In reply to merchant of menace:

Hooray, thanks for the info from someone who knows what they're talking about.

The way I see it, if you shed a few gramms off everything here and there without damaging it, it'll all add up.

I probably won't do it to be honest, but toyed with the idea.
OP Merlin 01 Nov 2008
In reply to fishy1:

Sewing slings has got to be far worse!
 petestack 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:
> Presuming done correctly it doesn't structurally damage the kit and it saves weight?

My take on this would be that they'd be made with holes (like most cams, Bulldogs etc.) if the manufacturers thought it a good idea.

Baz47 01 Nov 2008
In reply to petestack:
Drilling would be another process and make them more expensive. Also, as I said previously, it makes them harder to remove.
OP Merlin 01 Nov 2008
In reply to merchant of menace:

...so...

What size drill bit or do you use a hole cutter?!
 krank 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:
You climb E1 if your profile is correct, losing this kind of weight will make no difference. You could shed half a stone and it will probably make no difference to your climbing, it will not be weight that is holding you back. If you start drilling your gear it might break and you might die.
 petestack 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Baz47:
> Drilling would be another process and make them more expensive.

In which case the manufacturers didn't think it a good idea!
merchant of menace 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin: im not saying !
as im not making that decision for
id advise you not to do it
if you do, you make the choice on size . sorry.
OP Merlin 01 Nov 2008
In reply to merchant of menace:

Lol,

I was joking mate.

Cheers
OP Merlin 01 Nov 2008
In reply to krank:

Not too fussed about pushing the grade, just purely interested in carrying less weight!
 petestack 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:
> Not too fussed about pushing the grade, just purely interested in carrying less weight!

So carry less gear instead of drilling holes in it?

 PDL 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:
> (In reply to krank)
>
> Not too fussed about pushing the grade, just purely interested in carrying less weight!

Do more pull ups and get stronger so you can carry more weight

 Moacs 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

Oh. FFS.

You lead E1.

E1.

Think about it.

E1.

*You* *don't* *need* *to* *be* *concerned* *about* *the* *weight* *of* *your* *hexes.*

Seriously. Don't bother. Just climb a bit more, or drink fewer beers, or train harder.

It's as stupid as a punter like me wearing uncomfortable rockboots at the wall.

Oh, hang on...

J
Pan Ron 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

Agree with all the above, but for some perspective, hexes were drilled, yes. But that probably dates back to a time when they were made out of much heavier metal and probably being hauled up big wall climbs. Modern hexes are so light I doubt they can afford much in the way of tinkering and farting will do more to propel yourself up a short UK climb than the reduced grammage will.

As above, take a dump, knock one out, or drink less water before you climb and you may notice a difference, plus have more faith in the hex you place.
 wilkie14c 01 Nov 2008
In reply to David Martin:
Think of the negative points if you drill 'em:
1) harder to use as a mallet in a tent peggy situation
2) less mass = less stopping power as seagull slayers
3) (the serious one) less surface area to use if you are faced with a stacking placement. ie Hex 9 + Rock 10 together in wide cracks. Also winter use where they are frequently hammered into position will see a fatigue failure of the alloy without doubt
 gethin_allen 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:
If you have modern hexentrics i wouldn't bother, the weight you save would be minimal and the chance of you killing yourself outweighs the benefit. people do dill holes in ancient hexes, but older hexes are really thick, heavy and strong so could take a bit of drilling. If you have these old types go for it (on your own head be it) but you'd be better getting newer hexes and not drilling them.
 petestack 01 Nov 2008
In reply to blanchie14c:

+ De-tune them so they don't jangle right?
OP Merlin 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Moacs:

Lol, I can't belive you're taking this thread so seriously!

What has what grade I climb at got to do with taking weight from climbing gear?!

Actually don't answer that, you'll probably just throw another rant!
OP Merlin 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

Anyone considered filing excess metal off their krabs?
Baz47 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:
Yes, I've filed sharp edges on both ends of the gate. Something that quality control should have seen to.
OP Merlin 01 Nov 2008
In reply to Baz47:

Bloody hell! I was joking!

What Krabs were they?
 thin bob 02 Nov 2008
In reply to Moacs:
"punter like me wearing uncomfortable rockboots at the wall."

Drill some holes in 'em, John. or drill some holes in your feet so they fit better.

 thin bob 02 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

> Anyone considered filing excess metal off their krabs?


No, but i did remove all the blue fibres from my rope and replaced my bootlaces with mintyfresh dental floss [the minty flavour does adds weight, but hey, I'm worth it ]
 link 02 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

They weigh nothing anyway you big girl!

I have one hex with holes drilled in it but it is a massive one from some era before I was born and made out of steel not lightweight alloy.
 muppetfilter 02 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

considering your original idiotic weight saving idea how about...


How about cutting off all the drawcords from your rucksack.
Cut all those un-needed fashion labels off your clothes.
Shave all your body hair off.

You will now...
Be unable to close your clothing and bag
No longer look like a walking advertising hoarding
Do well in a certain fetish niche
 Alun 02 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

> Lol, I can't belive you're taking this thread so seriously!

Well, nobody else can believe you actually asked the question. Seriously, ask yourself three things:

1) How many grams of weight will you actually really save by drilling hexes?
2) How many grams of weight will you save by having a shit before going climbing?
3) How much will it hurt when you hit the ground after your drilled hex fails?

> What has what grade I climb at got to do with taking weight from climbing gear?!

Nothing. It is a ridiculous idea no matter what grade you climb. Of all the people I've met through climbing, from those who do VDiffs on grit to those who onsight multipitch E7s at Gogarth, I'm 100% certain that not one of them would consider drilling hexes to save weight.

Spend your time doing pull-ups, it'll be much more productive for your climbing!
OP Merlin 02 Nov 2008
In reply to muppetfilter:

I've done that already!?
 muppetfilter 02 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin: For the love of god dont use immac on your chest, i once saw the aftermath of defoliated nether regions sport climbing.
 Jamie B 03 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

What sort of routes do you climb? I'm starting to seriously question whether hexes are worth carrying at all if you have eqivalent-sized cams.
 Jamie B 03 Nov 2008
In reply to David Martin:

> As above, take a dump, knock one out, or drink less water before you climb and you may notice a difference, plus have more faith in the hex you place.

Drinking less water is surely not good advice? Cant comment on the other two...
 Al Evans 03 Nov 2008
In reply to Jamie B.:
> (In reply to Merlin)
>
> What sort of routes do you climb? I'm starting to seriously question whether hexes are worth carrying at all if you have eqivalent-sized cams.

Rockcentrics will go in placements where cams dont, it is rarely the other way round.
 GrahamD 03 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

Not much scope there, I'm afraid. Best just to lay of the pork pies for a week or two to get a more significant weight saving.
 Swig 03 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

In the "old days" people drilled hexes to save weight. They were heavier than they needed to be.

Nowadays manufacturers are aware of the fact the people want to save weight so will have aimed for the lightest design that still passes the tests.

So don't drill them.
 rusty_nails 03 Nov 2008
In reply to martin k:
> (In reply to Merlin) there are many ridiculous threads on UKC, but this is one of the worst offenders. given the density of the material used, you will save no more than 20 grams depending on the size and number of holes. this is a negligible weight saving that will make zero difference to your climbing.
>
> you need to get a sense of perspective and wake up to the foolishness of what you are suggesting i.e. that in return for saving 30 grams, you are prepared to compromise the integrity of your gear. you will put your life in danger and that of your partner who may also use it. tell me this is a joke!
>
> if you want to save some significant weight, eat less chocolate, exercise more and have a poo before you go out climbing in the morning. if you lose 4lb this way, you have reduced your weight by 1800g...do you see what i mean by "perspective"?
>
> perhaps i could also suggest investing in some lightweight kit that is not safety compromised?
>
> good luck (you'll need it)

What a negative and less than helpful post.

How did our forerunners ever survive without pre-manufactured and tested gear? They experimented and made do. With your attitude, all the big companies shouldn't bother trying to shed weight or innovate. If they all thought like you, we would still be on 25mm thick slings, 11mm ropes, 1Kg plastic helmets, and karabiners that weigh 1/4lb each.

Move with the times. Embrace change and innovation
 Swig 03 Nov 2008
In reply to rusty_nails:

It's not innovation its copying something that people did 30-40 years ago.
 muppetfilter 03 Nov 2008
In reply to rusty_nails: I think martin sums it up perfectly.
If you are worried about a few grams why not go and watch stonemonkey or Total Controll and watch hard routes done in the modern rock shoe equivalent of wellies....
Compromising the strength of pro is just silly, learn good footwork and be ashamed you suggested anything like this, oh and what about that Joe fella in tennis shoes.......

Maybe the reason you cant climb hard isnt because your gear is heavy!!!!
 JSA 03 Nov 2008
In reply to martin k:
> (In reply to Merlin) that in return for saving 30 grams, you are prepared to compromise the integrity of your gear.

He could hapily drill out with many holes, but just to be on the safe side he'd be tter back it up with a same/similar sized non drilled rockcentric! :0)
 NearlyDutchDan 03 Nov 2008
In reply to rusty_nails:

> if you want to save some significant weight, eat less chocolate

shave... cut your hair and nails !

Wear less clothes - or cut holes in your jumpers
 steve456 03 Nov 2008
In reply to rusty_nails:
> How did our forerunners ever survive without pre-manufactured and tested gear? They experimented and made do. With your attitude, all the big companies shouldn't bother trying to shed weight or innovate. If they all thought like you, we would still be on 25mm thick slings, 11mm ropes, 1Kg plastic helmets, and karabiners that weigh 1/4lb each.
>
> Move with the times. Embrace change and innovation

The change, innovation and optomisation of the hex has happened. Gear is now designed using far more sophisticated and rigorous modelling and testing than the half-inch thick hexes of old and if one of the most innovative designers of gear in the world who change tried and tested design of karabiners for example to shave individual grams off decide not to sell hexes with holes then you'd be an idiot to attack them with a drill.

The BD hexes are wafer-thin and compared to a chunky hex of old even rockcentrics (spelling?) are rather slim. The few grams benefit of drilling holes in modern hexes could not possibly outweigh the dangers. Would you cut holes in your helmet/slings/rope to save weight?
 Jamie B 03 Nov 2008
In reply to Al Evans:

> Rockcentrics will go in placements where cams dont, it is rarely the other way round.

Parallell-sided cracks? Pockets?
OP Merlin 03 Nov 2008
In reply to rusty_nails:

That's exactly what I was thinking. It was only a consideration as I've seen climbers in the alps with hexes with holes in. I can't beleive the amount of flak and negativity people have come back with. Plus other weight saving tips and advice, which is not what I asked for.

Fair one if you don't think it's safe/worth while but no need to bloody preach.
 rusty_nails 03 Nov 2008
In reply to Swig:
> (In reply to rusty_nails)
>
> It's not innovation its copying something that people did 30-40 years ago.

It was innovative at the time, so why are people criticising the idea (and general trend) nowadays?
 Andy Hardy 03 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

<p1sstake>

OK so drilling holes is not a good idea. How about if you file the hex, so its narrower. You would save weight, the hex would be (should be) as strong the down side is you wouldn't be able to place it sideways in such wide cracks as before

</p1sstake>
 muppetfilter 03 Nov 2008
In reply to rusty_nails: Rickets used to be common in olden days..

They arent desireable nowadays either, some retro things should be left in the past....

 Burnsie 03 Nov 2008
In reply to rusty_nails:

because equipment manufacturers have gone to great lengths to lighten gear considerably. Even in the last 10 years the weight of an average rack has gone down a fair bit. - I did something radical to reduce the weight of my hexes ....... i bought rockcentrics ! in the summer I’ve done something more radical - I don't carry them !

Youngsters these days don't know what a heavy rack is ! I know I’m not an oldie but when I were a lad wire gates didnae exist and hexes were of the full fat variety.
OP Merlin 03 Nov 2008
In reply to Burnsie:

Burnise, you're borring me!

psd 03 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin:

One thing everyone has overlooked is that so far nobody has posted a message saying "I drilled my Rockcentrics, fell off and survived".

From this we can deduce that everyone who has tried it has fallen off and died.

From this, we can deduce that it's a really stupid idea.


I love deductive philosophy...
 James Oswald 03 Nov 2008
In reply to psd:
"From this we can deduce that everyone who has tried it has fallen off and died."

Or that noone drills holes in their rockcentrics......
 krikoman 05 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin: I'm planning the replace all the wire on my nuts with twisted belly button fluff. I recon I'll save loads of weight and get to the cragg a minute earlier.

Has anyone tried this?
 Alun 05 Nov 2008
In reply to krikoman:

Are you completely crazy? Just use some finely rolled up newspaper like the rest of us, it provides all the weight saving you need.
 sihills 05 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin: on a completely different note that no one else has picked up, it says in your profile your spa, would you then use these drilled hexes with groups??????
 brieflyback 05 Nov 2008
In reply to krikoman:

OP should, like me, try a bit of self-trepanning. Not only reduced the weight of my cumbersome skull, but lightened my mood considerably, to the extent that I don't need a rack at all when climbing, as I am protected while soloing by a small cat with butterfly wings.
 krikoman 05 Nov 2008
In reply to Martin76: Does't the cat put you off balance chasing birds?

Nice idea though, what size hole saw did you use, I'm out today might pick one up for tonight.

I was thinking of taking a couple of inches of bone from both shins and thighs and may be eating the excess muscle produced,that should lighten the load.
 Snax 15 Nov 2008
In reply to Merlin: If you do ever do this, have a dump before climbing so there is less shit to clean from the bottom of the crag when you deck out, thats why I always dump before climbing, not to save weight, but in case MR have to carry me out.

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