UKC

In reply to TobyA: officianado? Really Toby, that's two spelling mistakes in one worc. It's aficionado.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Great videos - nice put together with music that supports and doesn't detract. Thanks!

I've only been to Burbage once or twice and many years ago - so this is from a completely non-Peak-aficionado point of view, but purely to watch on the video Parthian is a vastly more impressive looking route. I can imagine the climbing on the Promise is superb and simply brick hard - but it does look really small on vid! I can see how experienced high ball boulderers would have found it an obvious challenge that would have fitted their style.

In reply to John2: Spelling mistake? What spelling mistake?

Is a worc a slightly nervous troll?

In reply to TobyA: An officianado is someone like myself who spends his days in an office browsing UKC.

Great videos! The top of parthian looks absolutely terrifying.

So, er... Without wanting to bring out the VERY ANGRY ABOUT ETHICS crew, does "ground up" mean you can pre-clip all of your gear then?

In reply to Kyuzo:
Got to say that Parthian shot looks like a far more serious prospect. The Promise looks like a large boulder problem, however is probably a lot more commiting when you are on it. Anyway thats just the observations of a punter.

In reply to NickD: I BELIEVE the term is yo-yo...

In reply to NickD: Although HOW DO YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T PLACE the gear and downclimb?

In reply to Removed User:

Is it important to downclimb? Can't you just get lowered off? Or does this upset the ethics-police?

In reply to Amster-dan: Of course it is important to downclimb, else it's a yo-yo. Detention and back to the books for you young man.

In reply to Removed User:

Depends if he lowers to the ground (yo-yo) or down climbs (ground up)

ALC

In reply to a lakeland climber:

And what if he didn't downclimb or lower but fell?

This is very important as I am unable to get VERY ANGRY unless I am wholly clear :-|

In reply to a lakeland climber:

Sorry Sir BUT, what difference is it supposed to ACTUALLY make? Except to show what a good down-climber you are?

In reply to NickD:

LOL !

In reply to NickD:

Then it is Yo-Yo

In reply to Amster-dan:

And I am sorry too Madam, but this is CRUCIAL KNOWLEDGE. Many thousands of sponsorship dollars are at stake.

Edit: Sorry I meant raising the ethical bar for future generations.

In reply to NickD: A YO-YO is STILL GROUND UP. All GROUND UP MEANS is that you never abbed in from the top and did the moves from the ground to the top in the RIGHT ORDER.

I can feel MY RAGE bubbling...

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: None of the links goes to End of Affair? 2 go to The Promise?

Stu

I want to end this affair........

In reply to Stu Tyrrell: That's because we haven't published that video yet.

Going live tomorrow at 9am:

"Film 3: Team America climb End of the Affair, (Alex Honnold flashes it) (E8 6c) (watch out for that no-hands rest!)

We will be publishing film 3 at 9am on Friday morning."

Jack

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Such a tease!
Or is it just that Mick's still in bed snoring away a hard evening's 'climbing' at the pub and so hasn't managed to upload it yet?

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: OK, thanks for reply!

Stu

In reply to Amster-dan:


Because on a ground-up ascent you're not allowed to weight the gear otherwise it becomes a yo-yo. By definition. You can argue whether there is a major difference in difficulty between the two styles which will obviously depend on the route in question (in this case a significant difference I would think) but the difference between the definitions of the two styles are plain.

Now when you get to routes where you can climb up, place gear, clip it, then jump off onto a bouldering mat with enough slack that you don't actually weight it that becomes a grey area... Likewise if you then pull-test the gear from the ground before re-ascending.

In reply to Amster-dan:

It shows (to yourself?) that, for the 'luxury' of a partial top rope, you're prepared to put the work in

In reply to quadmyre:

... and what if you climb up, place the gear, climb back down THEN fall off your actual attempt? Start again?

Reminds me of the practice (no names and I'm not sure if it still goes on, or even if its not 'allowed') of climbing up to (say) the fourth bolt on a sport project and climbing down again to the ground. Then on ever subsequent visit aiding up to the fourth clip "cos that bit already been done" - always struck me as a bit dubious.

Chris

In reply to quadmyre:

ok ok ok... clearly I should not even bother asking, too many if's and but's and maybe's

<still got my coat on>

In reply to Chris Craggs: Reminds me of the practice (no names and I'm not sure if it still goes on, or even if its not 'allowed')

Yes with that etyhic you could have a whole day working the 'downclimb'. These days it is rare to have anything more than the 2nd bolt pre-clipped but not many bother with the downclimb - I don't. At the time I think Ben Moon suggested that a downclimb was only acceptable if done on the same day as the ascent.

Re: aiding up to the fourth clip "cos that bit already been done" - well that was never acceptable as a valid style. I assume you mean aiding up to preclip then lowering and re-climbing free from the ground. Huber climbed a new route called Om in this style and it was called 'redcrossing'. Fortunately it never caught on.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Amazing route that - looks scary as hell!

BTW Does anybody know who's in the black and white clip, who takes the fall? (excuse my ignorance if it's a well-known fact)

Steven

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Inspirational stuff, I'm going to make an effort to get off my ass this winter and get fit. Time to sign up for fit club I think.

In reply to Steve Kirman:
Presume it's KJ on a previous (failed) attempt.

In reply to quadmyre:

"Likewise if you then pull-test the gear from the ground before re-ascending."

This is precisely what the second guy in the video does on the Promise. I though it was a bit odd!

In reply to snoop6060:

I really don't see what is odd about that?!! You climb up a couple of metres. You place a runner. You climb back down a couple of metres to the floor.

Of course you pull the rope to see if the runner is any bloody good! Are you totally mad! ;]

In reply to quadmyre:

That's not right is it? I thought that you could weight the rope on a ground up ascent, but it becomes a yo-yo if you don't pull the ropes through (as in this case). In this case, isn't it still ground up because he didn't practice the moves, but also yo-yo because he didn't pull the ropes through after falling? Please explain if I'm wrong.

Whatever the case; awesome looking route, great effort on doing it, and doing it in improved style.

In reply to Byron Buck:

Ok to be clearer for it to be a ground-up ascent you cannot weight the rope on your successful attempt and no gear must be clipped when you start that ascent (though you can return to the ground for a rest after clipping it provided you don't weight it). Obviously you can have as many goes as you like provided each time you fail you pull the ropes.

If you leave the rope clipped in and yo-yo it you've arguably never 'lead' the route ... you've lead the bottom half then fallen, top-roped the bottom half and led the top but not the full lead.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:


Exactly - any sane person would! Part of the definition of adherence to strict climbing ethics is the ability to leave common sense at home where it belongs ... otherwise we might as well all top-rope everything

In reply to quadmyre:

I never noticed the similarities between rock climbing and cheerleading until I decided to Google "ground up" and came across this paragraph:

"These are just a few of the vast number of stunts performed by cheerleaders daily. One may wonder how cheerleaders can do them in the first place. Basically, most squads use the "sponge" technique. "Sponging up", as it is called, is going straight from the ground up using a bouncing and swinging technique to gain momentum. Once the climber gets up in the air, bystanders may often hear the spotter saying something about "sticking it." This just means that the climber has not quite gained her balance and the spotter is telling her to hold it, which is usually accomplished by tightening up muscles throughout the body."

at: http://www.uta.fi/FAST/GC/cheerglo.html

Perhaps we can start to turn to cheerleading to help advance our own sport as we reach a technical bottle-neck. How about introducing tucks, stags, pikes and layouts to our longer whippers? Pom Poms optional.

In reply to kajsurfer:

I like the thought of swiping the term "Sponging up" too for ascents with multiple bouldering pads beneath. Especially if it helps reach the first holds when that's the physical crux for short arses like me.

In reply to quadmyre:

Ah ok, fair enough. I thought ground up simply meant that you didn't practice or inspect the route before attempting the ascent (i.e. everything is done from the ground upwards!), and yo-yoing was just a sub-category of this (although an undesirable one). Actually, the video doesn't show whether or not he pulled the ropes after falling; he could have the rope above him by having clipped the gear and then climbed down again. If this isn't the case though, it does beg the question; why was this reported as a ground up ascent?

In reply to Byron Buck:

I think it is acceptable part of the ground-up ethic that if you have already reversed to the ground there is no requirenment to pull the ropes even if you then fall off after if you have already done the downclimb and isnt a yo-yo as such. In any case if going up to place the gear isnt that hard or dangerous it seems a bit academic whether you leave it clipped or not.

Depending on the tactics required there is sometimes a fine line between ground-up and grind-down !

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Does anyone know how tall Kevin is (or his ape index)? I only ask as, on the Stone Monkey footage, Johnny is making some pretty big slaps/dynos, which Kevin does, if not statically, at least with a lot less lunging.

On another note, crikey that top pocket looks disappointing!