UKC

Hi,
I've been climbing about a year, both seconding and leading outside but not at a high grade (hardest clean onsight S4a, but routes are graded easy where I am).
I've been looking at the PYB Rock Improver course, and was looking for comments from anyone who has been on it, please.
Is it really worth spending £550 on 5 days of instruction or would the money be better spent elsewhere?

Thanks.

In reply to MightyMidget:

I didn't particularly enjoy this course. It was too formulaic and was very poorly tailored to our needs (we went as a couple climbing together about 4 years ago). The first three days was mainly top rope based and only the last 2 days was personalised to any extent. My partner was completely knackered and I wasn't far off by day 4 as we had thrown ourselves at the both pumpy and very technical climbs proffered in the first three days and I feel that I learnt little.

The worst aspect was that I knew I needed to improve my technique and asked about movement and technique early in the course and that was pretty much ignored. Other things such as rope and belay technique were repeated ad nauseum even though we had taken these on board on earlier courses with the same instructors.

One of our best climbing friends was met on this course though and for that we will always be grateful

I would try to get a more recent report about this course, but last time I looked the course description had not changed much.

In reply to MightyMidget:

I took both that course and an earlier transition to outdoor rock course with PYB. I found the first course and the center to be very good and the instruction to a high standard.

At the time I the improver course I two was in a similar position in terms of experience and aspiration to you. I found I had two had issues with the delivery of content. For what was suposed to be an improver course we spent the first two days going over exactly the same ground as on the previous transition to outdoor rock course, without reguard to the stated entry requirements on the course. While i understand that an instructor needs to gauge the competency of participants i'm unable to understand why it took two days to work out that i was competant as a second. The other issue was the lack of any option for leading until the last two days of the course and then this was not possible due to the weather.

Please dont take tha above the wrong way I can wholey recomend PYB as a center and my first course with them was terific. I think they simply need to review the sylibus is for this improver course and who it is aimed at then state that more clearly up front.

As to value for money go and do the maths for the alternative yourself, work out who much 5 days full board accomadation, kit hire and transport would cost you will see that you are getting the guiding / instruction at a very good rate.

As an alternative for the level you have reached i would either recomend another course with PyB or consider Glenmore Lodge PyB's equivilant in Scotland. They do a 5 day learn to lead course, and based on the recent 5 day guided climbing trip to skye i have done with them i can say their instructors are phenominal. With an ability to guague exactly how far to push for me to get the most from the trip without it being too much to handle as to make it inappropriate for my ability.

Hope that helps

In reply to MightyMidget:

yhm

In reply to SouthernSteve:



So what you are actually saying is: I hoped to get a week's personal coaching, but instead they delivered a course aimed at the relatively inexperienced leader, exactly as stated in their brochure.

Now tell me again who is at fault here.

If you ring Martin Chester at PYB he will tailer a private course specifically to suit your needs and this would not work out to be much more expensive. In fact if the course is directed specifically to suit your level and requirements then you would find it much more intense and could probably achieve more in two days tuition than in the full five of the course.

I recently did a private rock improver style course with my 12 year old son and a climbing friend of mine and it was superb. Our instructor was Phil Dowthwaite and I couldn't recommend him highly enough to give him justice.

This was my second course at PYB and I have always found them to be extremely good value if you take into account the accommodation, kit hire and facilities etc.

If you need any further information on costs etc. please do not hesitate to ask.

In reply to MightyMidget: I've never been on a PYB course myself, but a couple of my friends did their rock improvers course, and it really improved their climbing as well as firing up their motivation & enthusiasm!

I think they'd led VDiff before going the course, but not very often.

Cheers

In reply to MightyMidget: spend the money elsewhere
i would suggest you find someone local to you who can offer the same type of course , they could tailor exact content to suit you personally.
however you will have to find said person and judge for yourself their ability (recomendations are a good method)
i dont in any way suggest PYB are inferior in course content or level of instruction, but you may get what u want for less £
now this isnt without a little self interest as i work independently in this area and i would charge way less than £550 (but that is without accom)
find an independent and give them the buisiness

IMHO

In reply to everyone:

Thanks to you all for your advice.... I think i'm not going to do a course at the moment, just try to get out climbing a lot and then maybe get some individual coaching days later in the year.

In reply to MightyMidget
If you are leading regularly then you probably don't need the course. Reading the other comment sounds like they were doing routes that stretched thir abilities, which is what improvement is allabout n'est pas?

I found it worthwhile but han't done masses of lead climbing befoe I went. I have done several courses through PYB and think that the staff are brill ad offer very sound advice.

Put i this way, most private guiding costs £150/200 day plus accom and food, makes the course sound very cheap to me.

Best wishes

In reply to MightyMidget: PyB is a great centre and the instructors vary from GOOD to SUPERB. However, the main disadvantage of going there is that you actually have little control over which instructor you actually get on the day and it being a large centre they are rather inflexible.

Apart from PyB/Glenmore lodge you've got a few options:

1 - Hire a freelance instructor. Any full member of the Association of Mountaineering Instructors will be more than capable of running a one-off course for you. The disadvantage is the you'll have to try an vet the instructor yourself (some will be better than others) and ideally find someone else to split the cost but the advantage is the you can speak directly to them before you arrange/book anything so the course should exactly meet your needs. Expect to be quoted 170 per day, possible less for a whole week. Several post on UKC.

2 - Hire a mountain guide. Exactly the same as above but since your they hold a higher level qualifications with worldwide mountaineering experience they may charge you a bit more. Again some post of UKC

3 - Get some 'coaching' from a 'performance' climber. Plenty of very good climbers offer coaching in varying forms. Suitable if you are concerned about mental and technique issues but not ideal if you're still unsure of the basics of protection and ropework. Cost vary but are similar to above.

I'd say partly that the best option will depend where you live and normally climb and what time you have available.

In reply to MightyMidget:
I'd personally find a partner and go on an Adrian Berry course. Not been on one before but have only heard good things.
James

In reply to MightyMidget:
Get an instruction book and improve your gear placements?
Do you have any idea what it is that is that is letting you down? Is it your mind,technique or fitness? There are many effective articles on improving leading online. Have a little look.
James

anyone notice its always southerners who go on these courses... just get out and climb more! climb with random people off this site for free... if u used that £500 to get me and u somewhere warm id teach u myself! also these courses cant guarantee good weather and u have to book in advance... so u could end up indoors the whole time!

In reply to adamki: Different strokes for different folks.

In reply to adamki:

Yep, and i'm one of 'em. East anglia in fact. Possibly the worst place to live in th UK with climbing as a hobby

Trouble living down 'ere is there 'aint much rock. I do envy those living in and around the Peak area. If i lived there i might make it to some real rock every day!

To the OP, not really sure what it is you want to get out of the course really. If you are leading outdoors already you just gotta climb some more, if improving your grade is the thing. The course can't really teach you anything else.

I did a 2 day trad course with these people...

http://www.will4adventure.com/

That was pretty good. Taught me how to lead and place gear etc. Now i just gotta get out more...