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Ok, can you use them?, in a non-competition manner, as in comps they will use things to stop people doing so, such as nuts that come right forward. But, when your just at the wall, is it acceptable to do so? as its just as easy to put longer nuts in as it is to put normal ones in. This may seem very pointless to ask, but i was working a hard circuit today and there is a particualary hard move, which i can do, but using my thumb would help ALOT....so? are they graded accordingly or are we just mean't to know not to use them? (as I actually havn't been told not to)
In reply to Liam Copley: I thought about this, but was put off by the potential of falling off, thumb still stuck in, and breaking it.
In reply to Liam Copley:
In the interest of my own hands I never do. Wouldn't fancy taking a fall with my thumb wedged in one of those holes. I think I remember being warned against it many years ago.
In the interest of my own hands I never do. Wouldn't fancy taking a fall with my thumb wedged in one of those holes. I think I remember being warned against it many years ago.
Surely you can't put your thum in that far? :-S
I would say, if it's there, use it. I'm not too sure though.
I would say, if it's there, use it. I'm not too sure though.
In reply to Liam Copley:
The grades are never very acurate inside, so i just use it if it feels right. I usually recon its in to have a thumb in the bolt hole, unless its been set so you cant do that, i.e filling the hole with gaffer tape. I have sometimes thought it would be easier to mono the bolt hole on really grim sloppers, but that starts to feel like cheating to me!
The grades are never very acurate inside, so i just use it if it feels right. I usually recon its in to have a thumb in the bolt hole, unless its been set so you cant do that, i.e filling the hole with gaffer tape. I have sometimes thought it would be easier to mono the bolt hole on really grim sloppers, but that starts to feel like cheating to me!
In reply to Liam Copley: boltholes are not in, same as matching.
In reply to Liam Copley:
Always 'in' unless specifically mentioned otherwise.
If the route setter doesn't want you to use them, they will be filled with either card or a proper cap.
Drew
P.S. The bolt length won't affect the depth of the bolt hole.
Always 'in' unless specifically mentioned otherwise.
If the route setter doesn't want you to use them, they will be filled with either card or a proper cap.
Drew
P.S. The bolt length won't affect the depth of the bolt hole.
In reply to Will Goldsmith: no matching to make problems harder for training purposes.
In reply to huck:
Fair enough for training, but that doesnt mean matching's 'not in'. Some problems are impossible with out matching.
Fair enough for training, but that doesnt mean matching's 'not in'. Some problems are impossible with out matching.
In reply to Will Goldsmith: maybe not impossible, just a whole lot harder
In reply to Liam Copley: I think using bolt holes is unethical.
If you can't do a problem without using the bolt holes then you know what needs to be done...
If you can't do a problem without using the bolt holes then you know what needs to be done...
In reply to dirtbag1:
Oh yeah Lol, I didn't thinkof that, cheers for the replies (everyone)
> (In reply to Liam Copley)
>> P.S. The bolt length won't affect the depth of the bolt hole.
Oh yeah Lol, I didn't thinkof that, cheers for the replies (everyone)
In reply to Sircumfrins:
Do you guys enjoy climbing? don't take everything so seriously - course they are in!
> (In reply to Liam Copley) I think using bolt holes is unethical.
> If you can't do a problem without using the bolt holes then you know what needs to be done...
> If you can't do a problem without using the bolt holes then you know what needs to be done...
Do you guys enjoy climbing? don't take everything so seriously - course they are in!
In reply to Sircumfrins: ok, I dont really like using them , and if i do complete something using them, i will go back and do it without OR at least state to people that i did use them, and then its fine.
In reply to Simon: Indeed! I enjoy climbing! I enjoy making things difficult for myself...therefore bolt holes are out! :0)
In reply to Liam Copley: Hey! No worries! You do what you need to do. :0)
In reply to Sircumfrins:
...where does ethics come in to it then? they are just holds made of plastic.
...where does ethics come in to it then? they are just holds made of plastic.
In reply to Will Goldsmith: NO MATCHING! Matching makes you weak, and forces god to kill kittens.
In reply to Liam Copley: bolt holes are not in at my local bloddering wall.They are classed as aid.some of the setters put tape in them to stop any potential 'thumbers'.
In reply to Liam Copley:
Nope as, as has been mentioned before..if you fall with a thumb still in there..:oS
Nope as, as has been mentioned before..if you fall with a thumb still in there..:oS
In reply to Liam Copley:
Today I stripped around 200 holds off the bouldering wall at work. Can you imagine how much longer it would have taken to do if I had to remove a wad of gaffa tape or something from the bolt hold of every hold?
Holds generally arn't residned with the bolt hole in, as with some holds, the bolt hole is probably the best bit, if your sticking fingers in then your not really doing the route as it was set.
Also be ware, if you stick your finger right in and fall off, you may be in a spot of bother
Today I stripped around 200 holds off the bouldering wall at work. Can you imagine how much longer it would have taken to do if I had to remove a wad of gaffa tape or something from the bolt hold of every hold?
Holds generally arn't residned with the bolt hole in, as with some holds, the bolt hole is probably the best bit, if your sticking fingers in then your not really doing the route as it was set.
Also be ware, if you stick your finger right in and fall off, you may be in a spot of bother
In reply to Liam Copley:
Personally I'm against the practise of bolt-holing. I realise that it on certain indoor bouldering routes there is a historical significance, and perhaps in those cases exceptions can be made. But bolt-holing on new problems is unethical - if you can't do the problem clean, wait until you can. Bolt-holing is bringing the route down to your level.
Retro-bolt-holing is yet another argument...
Personally I'm against the practise of bolt-holing. I realise that it on certain indoor bouldering routes there is a historical significance, and perhaps in those cases exceptions can be made. But bolt-holing on new problems is unethical - if you can't do the problem clean, wait until you can. Bolt-holing is bringing the route down to your level.
Retro-bolt-holing is yet another argument...
In reply to Liam Copley: A guy at my uni broke his thumb in two by putting it in a large bolt hole. Maybe use it to pinch against but surely its better training not to use it.
In reply to Liam Copley: It's not real. Do what you like, it's only exercise.
In reply to 3leggeddog: I don't train, I have fun.
In reply to Liam Copley:
This a serious matter encompassing the two most important aspects of climbing - training and ethics.
As a matter of courtesy to the climb hold makers who have lovingly crafted the holds don't use the holes - it insults them every time a bolt hole is used. Secondly as you describe it 'the holes of the climbing holds' ie they are not the holds they are the holes - so it follows if you are not climbing using the holds you are cheating. At your age you should draw a line in the sand now otherwise if you dont stop the rot - before we know it you will be chipping jugs at Stanage
.
If you are bouldering/routing to train for climbing outside then how will using bolt holes help you ?. Obviously not a lot. Same goes for matching, cupping and using thumbs.So don't do it. If you want to climb E10 that is.
Personally I don't give a monkeys and use everything available and take the grade because I am weak in ethics and body.
This a serious matter encompassing the two most important aspects of climbing - training and ethics.
As a matter of courtesy to the climb hold makers who have lovingly crafted the holds don't use the holes - it insults them every time a bolt hole is used. Secondly as you describe it 'the holes of the climbing holds' ie they are not the holds they are the holes - so it follows if you are not climbing using the holds you are cheating. At your age you should draw a line in the sand now otherwise if you dont stop the rot - before we know it you will be chipping jugs at Stanage
.
If you are bouldering/routing to train for climbing outside then how will using bolt holes help you ?. Obviously not a lot. Same goes for matching, cupping and using thumbs.So don't do it. If you want to climb E10 that is.
Personally I don't give a monkeys and use everything available and take the grade because I am weak in ethics and body.
In reply to Liam Copley:
i understand that the use of the thumb on indoor training boards was invented by one malcom smith and became known in sheffield as the dunbar pinch.
it was outlawed years ago.
i understand that the use of the thumb on indoor training boards was invented by one malcom smith and became known in sheffield as the dunbar pinch.
it was outlawed years ago.
In reply to Liam Copley:
Holes, smoles - who cares ? if its that important give the problem two different grades.
Holes, smoles - who cares ? if its that important give the problem two different grades.
In reply to Liam Copley: Obviously no holes WTF FFS. it completly changes the hold if you use the hole, therefore the route therefore, the grade!
If you're using the hole you're cheating!
If you're using the hole you're cheating!
In reply to dirtbag1: Surely a wind up!!! Fill them with bits of card or cap - how long would that take to set a route. I expect more from you!
In reply to krikoman: We had some Chris Sharma slopers that came with little plastic bungs. Trying to get the lil fellas out was more trouble than it was worth. At the end of the day it makes me sick as a parrot that there are people out there willing to violate these holds for personal gain.... you should be ashamed!
As long as you can sleep at night...
In reply to steve webster:
Pun intended?
Pun intended?
In reply to Simon Lee:
Out of interest, whats wrong with matching??? I do that all the time - indoors and out!
Out of interest, whats wrong with matching??? I do that all the time - indoors and out!
In reply to bouldery bits:
Nothing wrong per se but from a training point of view consider the difference on a campus board between 1-4match-7 and 1-4-7. You are going to get more out of doing moves more like the latter than the former.
As for outside milk every hold dry.
Nothing wrong per se but from a training point of view consider the difference on a campus board between 1-4match-7 and 1-4-7. You are going to get more out of doing moves more like the latter than the former.
As for outside milk every hold dry.
In reply to Liam Copley: can someone tell a thick 'old skool' northern bloke what Matching is?
In reply to graeme jackson:
Putting both hands on the same handhold.
Putting both hands on the same handhold.
In reply to graeme jackson:
Every day is a schoolday, I didn't know what it was either and have never considered it to be bad form. I'll try and stop doing it from now on...
Every day is a schoolday, I didn't know what it was either and have never considered it to be bad form. I'll try and stop doing it from now on...
In reply to Liam Copley:
Quality setting usually renders the bolt hole useless anyway. I am racking my brains to remember the last last time I "thumbed a hole" and I cannot( and I am absolutely unscrupulous) so it cannot really be that much of an issue,eh?
Quality setting usually renders the bolt hole useless anyway. I am racking my brains to remember the last last time I "thumbed a hole" and I cannot( and I am absolutely unscrupulous) so it cannot really be that much of an issue,eh?
In reply to Liam Copley:
This is called French Fingering in some circles - and is definitely not allowed!
This is called French Fingering in some circles - and is definitely not allowed!
In reply to Robertostallioni:
I'll be watching you like a hawk stallioni!
> (In reply to Liam Copley)
>I am racking my brains to remember the last last time I "thumbed a hole" and I cannot( and I am absolutely unscrupulous)I'll be watching you like a hawk stallioni!
In reply to Clarence:
It's more an issue of what you're trying to train.
By avoiding matching you emphasise arm strength more.
Whereas matching on a small hold can stress the fingers more.
I wouldn't avoid it altogether or it will become such an ingrained habit you could carry it over to outdoors.
It's more an issue of what you're trying to train.
By avoiding matching you emphasise arm strength more.
Whereas matching on a small hold can stress the fingers more.
I wouldn't avoid it altogether or it will become such an ingrained habit you could carry it over to outdoors.
In reply to Liam Copley:
well put it this maw: if you remove the hangers on some really hard sport route and use the bolt hole as a mono instead of the hold next to it cos its rubbish you'll probably find the route easier, (although now not so well protectect). Effectivly if you do this you may as well chip a new hold or if inside just use another hold. Your only kidding youself that you did it in a good style compaired to the original route setter who did it (and intended it to be done) without! (or first accentist in my example)
well put it this maw: if you remove the hangers on some really hard sport route and use the bolt hole as a mono instead of the hold next to it cos its rubbish you'll probably find the route easier, (although now not so well protectect). Effectivly if you do this you may as well chip a new hold or if inside just use another hold. Your only kidding youself that you did it in a good style compaired to the original route setter who did it (and intended it to be done) without! (or first accentist in my example)
In reply to Graeme Hammond:
Again it's not an ethical issue but a training one.
Using the holes means that you only train one grip (one that never occurs on rock) so people don't.
The setters will know this & grade accordingly.
Again it's not an ethical issue but a training one.
Using the holes means that you only train one grip (one that never occurs on rock) so people don't.
The setters will know this & grade accordingly.
If bold holes are in can I grab Quickdraws as holds on a route?
In reply to Jon Jones:
i was bouldering at the wall and could only do a very balancy 6a by using one of the holes in the wall that they bolt the holds onto as a dissapointing sidepull. All features are in but but it felt a bit like cheating so worked on doing it without. stoopid really. But I reckon if the problem is obviously set to hang a ridiculous sloper, sticking a finger in the bolt hole is sort of missing the point.
i was bouldering at the wall and could only do a very balancy 6a by using one of the holes in the wall that they bolt the holds onto as a dissapointing sidepull. All features are in but but it felt a bit like cheating so worked on doing it without. stoopid really. But I reckon if the problem is obviously set to hang a ridiculous sloper, sticking a finger in the bolt hole is sort of missing the point.
In reply to krikoman:
Lets take this to one extreme example.
You're climbing in a competition. Lets make it a World Cup (if we're being extreme).
You're facing a large sloper with exposed bolt hole, do you use the bolt hold? Of course you do.
Will Patxi use it? yes.
Will Ramonets use it? yes.
Will ethics about using a bolt hole even enter their heads? not a chance.
Now the other extreme.
Down the wall training, do you use the bolt holes? I couldn't care less. As too many people have already said, people can do what they like climbing. That's the beauty of it.
I have no judgement of people doing this.
Been to Boulder UK tonight and used several large slopers which have had their bolt holes filled with card to stop them being used. This is a recognised method. If they are exposed (as far as I'm concerned) they're 'in'. Route setters know this. (I probably won't use them, but if I do, I'm not going to lose sleep over it).
Climb hard Krikoman (with or without bolt holes, it's up to you).
Lets take this to one extreme example.
You're climbing in a competition. Lets make it a World Cup (if we're being extreme).
You're facing a large sloper with exposed bolt hole, do you use the bolt hold? Of course you do.
Will Patxi use it? yes.
Will Ramonets use it? yes.
Will ethics about using a bolt hole even enter their heads? not a chance.
Now the other extreme.
Down the wall training, do you use the bolt holes? I couldn't care less. As too many people have already said, people can do what they like climbing. That's the beauty of it.
I have no judgement of people doing this.
Been to Boulder UK tonight and used several large slopers which have had their bolt holes filled with card to stop them being used. This is a recognised method. If they are exposed (as far as I'm concerned) they're 'in'. Route setters know this. (I probably won't use them, but if I do, I'm not going to lose sleep over it).
Climb hard Krikoman (with or without bolt holes, it's up to you).
In reply to Steve Kirman:
I was hoping to do some of that tonight, but she has a headache and is generally feeling unwell, so you're right, it is definately not allowed.
> (In reply to Liam Copley)
>
> This is called French Fingering in some circles - and is definitely not allowed!
>
> This is called French Fingering in some circles - and is definitely not allowed!
I was hoping to do some of that tonight, but she has a headache and is generally feeling unwell, so you're right, it is definately not allowed.
In reply to dirtbag1: Carry on deluding yourself and stick your fingers and thumbs into as many holes as you can. Keep up the good work.
M
M
In reply to krikoman:
See my above post.
I don't have the motivation to discuss this dead end topic with you Krikoman.
Drew
See my above post.
I don't have the motivation to discuss this dead end topic with you Krikoman.
Drew
In reply to Liam Copley:
If the hold is a horrible sloper, the bolt hole can be v positive in comparison, so that using it is a big advantage.
I'd say it depends on how big an advantage the hole gives. If the problem is impossible without, but possible with, you've not really done the full problem, but if you didn't use it, you wouldn't be able to do the problem at all.
I'd use it, and try to eliminate it on repeat visits.
If the hold is a horrible sloper, the bolt hole can be v positive in comparison, so that using it is a big advantage.
I'd say it depends on how big an advantage the hole gives. If the problem is impossible without, but possible with, you've not really done the full problem, but if you didn't use it, you wouldn't be able to do the problem at all.
I'd use it, and try to eliminate it on repeat visits.
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